Ok, I'm setting up my first grow and I've got most of it down, I just need to check if I'm set for it to see if I'm forgetting anything. Also have a few questions about some things. So my grow is going to be in an approximatley 125-140sq. ft room, with another room available at about 65-75 sq ft. (Sizes are my biggest problem, because I don't know how much space I need for how many plants!). Anyway, I'm planting in soil (how many gallon pots should I get? 3gal? 5gal? 7+? how big a plant can I get out of each?). The veggitative growth room (large room) will be under a 1000w MH with air cooled hood reflector (how many plants can I grow under this?) and the Flowering room (small room) will be under a 400w HPS (how many to flower at a time?) with a possible addition of a 250w HPS to the 400watter. My rooms are nicely painted flat white and blacked out for external light). I'll be running oscillating fans, how many should I use for my grow (or how many fans per plant)? For nutes I'm undecided between the Big bloom & tiger bloom line, and the BMO natural line. (Which ferts work better for quicker, and better growth and larger flowering?). My soil will be pH checked (ideally 7-7.2 right?)and mixed with sand (how much? 10% 20%?) and small pummice gravel (again, what % if any?) and as for the soil itself, I'll be using black dirt (I live outside the USA and thats the soil they sell here, black dirt and potting soil, I've heard potting soil contains too many nutes and is bad so I'm going with good ol' black dirt (store bought so it's not contaminated). Avg room temp is 22-25 degrees Celcius during the day and hovering between 17-22 degrees. (I can't afford AC right now, but I can afford fans and heaters if necessary (although the light probably raises the temp a little, even with the air cooling) (although if the day gets overly hot I can get up to 50 pounds of dry ice (which should cool my growroom in an emergency) I'll be using Nirvana Seedbank's Seeds: White Rhino (fem), Ice (fem), NYPD (fem), and Blackberry (normal). I want to harvest as much bud as possible without sacrificing TONS of extra days to growth or flowering. I would also like to have a perpetual cycle of growth (some growing, others cloning, and others flowering at the same time), but it can have up to 1 month intervals of harvest. Also, any good recomendations on watering these strains and giving them nutes? I'll be using my ghetto a** CO2 solution (the yeast method! what recipe should I use and should I place the yeast buckets below or above the plants?) I wont be using a watering system (maybe next time around) so It'll be manual. I have Cloning powder and know how to clone, but I don't know if you can place the hormone soaked cutting into soil for it to root. As for the clones, should I plant straight in dirt after coating it in hormone, or should I plant it in a jiffy pot or similar contraption and then place that pot in the soil after mild rooting? I only want females, so no males will be grown. As for the growing method itself, I'll be using the 1000W MH for Vegging on an 18/6 cycle and will flower under 400W HPS (possibly 600W) on a 12/12 (or is there an advantage to doing 11/13 or 13/11?). Another problem I have is the growth method, I don't know if I'll grow them out to a certain height (how tall should I?) and then flower, or grow them to that height, prune/top, and flower (do I allow a week or two of veg growth for the lower limbs of the topped plant to catch up?) or growing in LST (is this slower than a normal grow?) and which one would give me more bud in the same amount of time? Eventually (probably after 1 or 2 flowering cycles are done) I'll invest in a 12 site large bucket ebb & grow system, and use that instead of soil, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there! (or should I go with the smaller potted 24 site ebb & grow?) Also, how early should I begin to flush the plant with water to reduce nitrogen for a smoother smoke? And when done flowering how many hours of total darkness do I give them for a last push of resin/thc production? So essentially, That's my setup, and those are my questions! Main ones are the plant size issue My roofs are about 6-6.5 ft tall and I do have the MH light so they can't get too close to the lamps or they'll burn, so how tall should I vegg them before flowering for a good size without being too large for the room? (or should I consider a soil SOG?) and what pot size do I need for that ideal size to space and time ratio? I Know that this is a BUNCH to ask, but I figured that nobody could help me more than anyone on the grasscity forums! Also, I've already ready 3 grow bibles and these have answered a lot of questions but these are the ones that remain. Thanks so much guys and gals! Peace!
Looks to me like you need to take the time and read a few grow guides, or grow journals. Too many questions and too much text in this post. One tip i can give is, try to ask 1 thing @ a time so there is a general topic to discuss and people will be much more inclined to assist you. Good luck with everything!
Soil ph should be in the high 6 range. You can get a shitload of plants in a room that big. Depending on what methods you use it is almost impossible to predict the amount of plants you could grow. 5 gal pots for some big boy plants. Smaller plants will get ur shit root bound. Plant hight depends on plant strand, and growing techniques such as LST, and pruning. For your veg room you could get anywhere from 4 to 20 depending on how big you grow them and if your cloaning and what not. With a room that big your going to want more then 1 1000 watt HPS if you plan on having a large scale grow. I think you should reverse your order on lighting anyway and put the veg under 400 MH lighting and the flowering plants under the 1000 HPS becaues produceing buds takes a ton more lumens then vegetive growth. You should use pearlite insted of sand its about the same price and much better. Use atleast 20% pearlite. I would highly suggest doing alot more research before you plan on investing any money.
Yeast method is great. No rocket science to this, just get active dryed yeast and sugar. Use a shitload of sugar and a little yeast. The yeast will multiply. What alot of people do is make a CO2 unit per plant. Using a empty plastic bottle and some rubber tubing. They hang the tubing over the plant so that the CO2 runs down the leaves. CO2 is heaver then our atmospheric mixture so it sinks. Any bloom stuff will work fine as long as you dont get fert happy and kill the poor little guy. Anything made by fox farms is generally a good product. If you want the largest fastest growth you should leave your plants on 24 hour veg lighting, theres no point not to do this. Alright im off to breakfast. GL!
Thanks a lot for the answers Phoggy, as for the research, its been done, but these are the questions I was left with. As for the 400W HPS, I'll ramp that up, but IDK if I should order a 600W or the 1000W HPS because I know that HPS run very hot, and I can't invest in a second air cooled hood right now. Do I really need a 1000W HPS? Or can I get by with a 600W? I'll be flowering only 1/3 of the total number of plants at a time. I read yesterday that the rule of thumb is 1gal of soil per foot. So I'm thinking I want to get a 3 gal pot, unless I use LST, which I still might. I know that its a LOT of stuff to ask, but I'd rather ask it and look like a dumbass than get a crappy grow at the end. And again, thanks a lot phoggy!
No problem homie, and now that I think about it I think the perfect soil Ph is 6.2 if im not mistaken. Anyway GL brotha!
Thanks guys, I'll adjust the pH accordingly, and I'll go hunt for the perlite. As for the lamps, I called the company and since they already shipped I'll be sticking with the 1000W MH for veg and the 400W HPS for flowering (for now, after my first crop or two I'm ramping up my grow room, AC, hydro, super lights, the works). Since I'll be staying with the 400W for flowering, how many medium size plants should I flower at one time? And as for the size: How long will it generally take for a plant to get to 1.5 ft before flowering (and how long would I flower?) and how long will it take for a plant to get to 2ft or 2.5 ft before flowering (and again, how long a flower?) but most importantly what yield can I expect per plant at these heights? Thanks everyone!
I'm still learning this stuff myslef, but I will take a crack at some of these questions. I read a great post by rumpleforskin. I recomend it, it's long but full of info. He mentions that he started out growing 3 or 4 plants under a 600w (I think, dont quote me) And as his experience grew, he realized fewer plants actually yielded more, at least for his grow. This was in a hydro bubble bucket mind you, but I think this will apply to soil too. Another consideration is that he has quite a bit of verticle space. If one is limitde by verticle space it may be better to have a few heavily lst'd plants or maybe a SOG. I myself am waiting on my 400w light to get here and I am planning on growing two medium size plants ata a time with it, hope this helps. This also depends on whether or not you use lst(low stress training) to pull the main limb horizontal. This allows for more main colas to be able to recieve ample lighting. This is what I plan on doing. My moms are lst'd too, they are 3 months old at least and still under 1.5 feet from the top of the dirt. They have also had clones taken from them which helps keep it short. I would plan on over a month from a clone, maybe less from a seed if it gets a little leggy. A clone developes a thicker stalk and limbs which I think probably produce large nugs if you had your preference for any plant at 1.5 ft i would go with a clone for sure. And remember that the plants will double maybe even tripple in size in flowering. Another factor is genetics, two plants of the same kind from different seeds may grow at completely different rates. Find one you like and clone it for consistant results. Flowering lasts about 8 weeks as a general rule of thumb, this all depends on the strain though ultimately. Watch for trichomes to turn from clear, to cloudy, to eventually 1/4 to 1/2 amber. This all depends on personal preference and, believe it or not, strain. Different plants will produce different buzzes according to when they are harvest, generally you want to harvest at about half amber as a rule of thumb. And for your most important question, I have no idea unfortunately since I am about to do my first grow under my new 400w light. If i were guessing I would say you could reasonably expect a couple ounces from each plant, more possibly if you use lst and let them get nice and bulky before putting them in. Hopefully someone else will come along and answer more thoroughly. Good luck to u and enjoy
Thanks a lot for the info Slaw. Is the yield from an LST so good as to pursue that technique for a longer period than just cranking out standard plants? Meaning, would LST be worth my while?
I really just got started in all this so hopefully someone with more expertise can weigh in. My observation so far is that if you give a plant longer to veg, lst'ing all the while you will end up with more budsites that all grow to about the same height. Topping a few main shoots along the way doesnt hurt either if you have the time. I think it definantly stands to reason that two plants grown the same length of time, one lst and one not, that you would get a larger yield from the lst. I draw this inference from the fact that you will have more colas (bud growth tops) exposed to a greater ammount of light. If your anxious to get growing like me, you may put a couple of plants in early and while your waiting for two months for it to finish budding, have a couple more growing the day you put those in. That way your next batch is nice and thick and ready to make lots of buds. That's my take on it so far anyway. I'm kind of in a funny position right now, I harvested a few weeks ago and didnt have any plants growing in veg reserve because they turned out to be male. I do have two beautiful moms which i just verified to be females by sticking some tiny clones into 12/12 after they rooted. At the same time as i stuck those into 12/12 I had some other clones from the moms rooting also. The temptation is great to go ahead and stick those mothers into the flower room because they would make great buds and it would be instant, but then I would find myself in the same situation in two months anyway. Waiting for the clones to get big enough to take more cuttings, then sticking the cut moms into flower again. So I'v ejust decided to be patient and grow these clones out for a couple more months and keep the moms as moms. Another interesting thing i did, and you may want to eventually do to if it interests you. Of the small clones I stuck in the flower room in order to determine there sex, I polinated them with some pollen I colected from a male of a strain I really like. So I will let those little sexed plants produce seeds for future grows. I crossed male Cosmic Nights with a NL and a blueberry plant. Should make some yummy seeds
Very nice on the seeding of the sex clones! For me, the whole cycle thing won't be too bad because I already have a good rotating schedule for my hypothetical grow room. (I just found out that my seeds never arrived and were refunded so I have to order again!). Anyway, as for the LST vs Normal, I was watching urbangrower's vids and I think I'm going to go with 5-7 gal pots (for the first couple of grows till I get some cash) and I'll be FIM-ing the plants to get good growth and good speed. I have a Q about lighting temps. My 1000w MH has an air cooled hood, however I need to know if I need an air cooler for an HPS of 400, 600 or 1000w if my day room temp is about 24* C.
Ah yes, FIM'ing is a good method too. FOrgot to mention that one, my BB mom was fimmed and has bushed out quit a bit more than the NL that was just topped regularly. The reason I didn't fim the NL is because I used the topping from it as a clone lol. I just reread your original post, I didn't realize you had so much space! Since it's om a room of its own you can probably get by with a fan pointed at your hps to keep heat from building up. If ambient temps. in your room get to high from the light and lack of a/c, you may want to consider ducting the heat out of a window or into another room. You would need a special hood with a ducting flange or a cool tube or something to trap the heat and send it out.
Yeah, and the thing is I'm moving the grow somewhere else, because I'm getting a bigger house, so I'll have even more space!! As for the lighting situation here's how its breaking down: I'm convinced on getting this: Daystar6 1000W HPS Dual Voltage Xtrasun Grow Light - Plantlighting Hydroponics (VEG LIGHT) and get it with a fan and ducting I'm not sure what to do for the flowering, I want to spend as little as possible $, but here are my two options: 1. 1000 W HPS with air hood: Daystar6 1000W HPS Dual Voltage Xtrasun Grow Light - Plantlighting Hydroponics 2. 2x 400 W HPS with generic reflector: Econo 400w HPS with Chrome Reflector - Inside Sun Which one should I go considering that with the fan and ducting, the 1000W is going to be at least a flat $300 while the 2x 400W would only be 200 total? Would the heat be too much? (My main quirks are heat, light, and yield/female determining factors). Also, if I do get the air hoods what is the cheapest fan that works well cooling it (Prefferably under $50). How many oscillating fans do I need for say 12 plants in vegging (6 old, 6 young) and 6 flowering? (the veg and flowering rooms are separate) And should I go 6 clones, 6 larger plants, and 6 flowering (using 3 gal pots, so a total of 3ft plants) or can I pull of doing 8,8,8 if I use 3-4 gal pots that are square? You can fit more square pots together than round ones, so I imagine you could at least squeeze out one or two more plants per light, right? Sorry for this rambling, but I'm high as hell right now!
Still need to know about the lights! Can I get away with using uncooled HPS lights? I found another HPS that I could buy (but again, uncooled so IDK if it works) Sunlight Budget Gro 1000W HPS 120V-240V Econowing Grow Light - Plantlighting Hydroponics Also, I'm considering using Fox Farms Ocean Forest instead of regular soil, how much perlite/vermiculite should I add to this? How about nutes, is it the same as normal soil nute wise?
Oh, I almost forgot, since Nirvana cancelled the seed order, I think I'm going to order: 5 fem White Rhino (nirvana) 5 fem Ice (nirvana) 3 fem LSD (Barney's) 3 fem Red Diesel (Barney's) Should I stick with the LSD and the RD or go with one of them and add say a belladonna or an urban poison? I've heard the RD is really good but a bit iffy with the fems. Any opinions?
I use a uncooled 400 watt HPS light. The room is about 4ftw 8ft long 7ft high. I don't have any problems at all.
I'm usinf FFOF soil too. I like it pretty well I guess. I'm thinking about adding some dolomite lime into the mix as recomended by others when I transplant my clones in a few days. I've had some troubles keep the ph of the soil balanced for some reason even though it's supposed to be ph balanced soil from the start. My water going in is always 6.5 or higher and yet my run off is always below six, I'm constantly flushing it seems like. I don't know if it's salt build up causing the ph to rise or what. I definantly don't overfeed, if anything I need to feed more. It's just been a pain getting things dialed in. Another suggestion, for what it's worth. Even if you order all those seeds, you may want to stick with just one or two types for the first run, stash the others for later. Certain strains can be pretty particular of what conditions they require. For instance, my blueberry plants are extremely sensitive too nutes and over/under watering and just about everything else. My NL on the other hand seem to take about anything. I'm learningn fast that it will take me a go or two to get the specifics of the plant dialed in. I'm gona try to flower a NL and BB at the same time and hope that they finish semi close to one another and that they grow at the same rate. I will let you know how that turns out heh It may be a total disaster lol edit: Oh and in regards to the perlite. I don't have an exact ratio of perlite that I add. I put about two, double handed handfulls of perlite into a 3 gallon bucket and mix it up. There is realy no way to go wrong with this as FF has a pretty good blend of perlite already mixed in. I just add more till I like the way it looks. I don't even add vermiculite.
Yeah, I'll be planting only a few seeds at a time (I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket!) . As for the soil, I'm again back to square 1, because I'm not sure about the FFOF, I heard that instead of perlite the best combo was to add the light soil by fox farms (don't know the name) at a 1:1 ratio, but I've read a bunch of problems with the pH of the mix too. Plus the fact that I'd have to ship a whole lot of soil in via air courier because they don't sell anything but soil in my country (we do have shitloads of ferts though, more than I've seen in the US) so the cost of the freight would be about as expensive as the soil itself (I don't mind paying for the soil & freight, I'd just rather not) so I'm looking for good mixtures & additives for improving soil, any suggestions?
I found the correct soil mixtures, 70% FFOF and 30% Light Warrior, however, I'm worried about nute burn. Can I use this soil mix for clones after they've gotten too big for my peat pellets, or will the soil kill my babies? Also, I'm getting the 1000W HPS and 1000W MH with air cooling as my lights.