heat, or lack of it.

Discussion in 'Grow Room Design/Setup' started by Gilboyto, Dec 20, 2012.

  1. #1 Gilboyto, Dec 20, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
    Im currently just playing with bagseed trying to get a better understanding of things before i use my good seeds :wave:

    I am organic, a very basic mix from InTheGardens thread thats peat, ewc, and perlite woth espoma tomato tone, kelp meal, and garden lime. I just transplanted into SIPs yesterday for two of them so they look so overwatered it sucks :-(.

    Heres my issue:

    Lighthouse 2.6x2.6x5 tent, running an advanced LED DS100 so there is literally NO heat from it. My house is set to 70 but the room this tent is inside is on a no-sun part of the house so its always cooler.

    I dont think my temps are helping my little ones :-(. Day i see TOPS is at 74ish now, and this is with a pc fan 120mm to exhaust this tent temporarily.... my 4" inline comes tomorrow and im afraid itll freeze in there dialed down cfm. With this small pc fan the tent inside feels colder than my hygrometer says.

    I saw 58 temps at night. I am thinking of a small, 150/250 mh/hps light for this winter cold, and using led as supplemental or summer grow light.

    Can i run a 250w air cooled even 6" with my 4" fan and be ok? The AC tube will exhaust in the same room so itll warm it up a little too...i was looking at the setups on ebay from gotham hydro like the 250/100w mh/hps so i can use it at all times without creating heat like my buddy's 400.

    Any ideas? Thought about an oil heater but it takes 600/1500 watts! So a heated light inside may be better...and the 6 hrs dark would prob stay warmer with that in mind too.. since itll be partially recirulating that warmer air in the room/house.

    Thanks!!
     
  2. If you are in a sealed tent with lack of heat. Add a few CFLs to match your cycle I.E 6500k's for veg, or 2700ks for flower. You would need at least 3 to be effective. you dont want them above the plants so your exhaust sucks it out. you want them on the sidelines.

    Now as far as HID's FOR SURE get a 100W or 250w switchable ballast and whatnot on Ebay.
    More heat, Better ability to create relaative humidity, high lumen count, and makes your chloriphyl activity go thru the roof. 100W should be fine for 1 plant. 250 would do up to 4.

    Id recommend HTG Supply. I've used them and they put out quality products. You can tell by them not pushing the cheapest chinese junk on ebay.

    The 4" fan should be fine. as long as its at least 170 CFMs. you would also need a small 30$ 4" inline duct booster. The 4" exhaust is probably enough, but you can be sure by aadding the duct booster for a solid fresh cold air supply.


    Hope I Helped.. :)
     
  3. That did help me a lot thank you! Ive been tryin to get the tent temp up lately but still droopy and the low temp is probably not helping the transplant recovery. They look like sad panda.

    Adjusted a few things, pots/SIP are about 10" off the ground now, 14" away from the led with a 42w actual wattage cfl in a reflective dish pointing down just below plant level and helps, but i only have a 120mm fan from a pc case, and temp stays constant at 68-72 lights on...saw it dip as low as 59 last night!

    Changing light on/off schedule may help run at night. But not much. I did decide on a mh/hps kit!

    Bought from gotham hydro same place as my tent. 250w digital ballast with the cooltube reflector housing so i can keep temps optimal. May get a fan speed controller to dial in as im sure ill need to.


    Now comes with the tent setup! Hopefully a pro can chime in. The reflector housing is larger than i expect. 25x18x10.5 so it takes up nearly the tent size in length! My tent is 32".

    Since its 6", my fan and filter are 4" i can get adapters for it to fit, but placement of it all sounds like a challenge! Keeping the reflector size in mind i optimally wanted to have my filter top left with the flange facing me, housing sideways so there will be a short, 2-4" 90* bend to the housing, then out to the centrifugal fan. I dont think the fan will fit inside the tent now though...lol

    I plan on running a minimal amount of duct maybe 5-6' at the most. Itll be in the same room and open door.

    Will the 175cfm fan work ok still? Even outside the tent for space near light level. So thats filter>cooltube>4" fan> exit in room.

    I dont need to run the filter on the first part until it starts stinking. But i fogured it would double as negative pressure in the tent, as it has 3 passive intake spaces on the bottom and pull up to the cooltube...make sense?

    Sorry for the confusion. I can take a pic of the tent top, HID isnt here yet, but have my filter buckled in place to see fitment
     
  4. #4 aj69420g, Dec 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2012
    I would do the fan + Filter outside the grow on a 2x4 stand to keep the filter,fan & duct works height all level (Hot air being pulled downwards makes your fan work harder.). The 175 cfm fan should be fine as long as you light cycle is at night when its coldest. I was gonna recommend a 100cfm inline duct booster as your exhaust. cause if you get a fan with too much CFM (400s), you will end up pulling more cold air into the tent than you want and might make things worse. but honestly those little lights get hot. so its all about troubleshooting before you grow.

    Get your light, setup your fan and run it for a few hours and monitor your temp. I feel like the 175 cfm is plenty when its already that cold.

    Pix would be great, I grew in a 4 drawer dresser when i was 16 without my parents knowing til I cropped! lol

    Grows that cold usually turn out purple buds so dont get sad yet!
     
  5. I was also thinking of doing this! I have seen some great setups, quiet will be nice..i have heard these fans do make noise from spin and also air rushing out of ducts lol. Even if i build an enclosure for the box woth insulated material to block noise so much the better but that all comes once my setup is right :).

    Well my tent from lighthouse has four top ports for exhaust ducting to be routed 4-6" theyre adjustable. Do you think like duct near plant level for airflow on them to make have that air movement rather than another fan?

    So duct at lower level for cool air in tent >cooltube>outside of tent fan>filter?

    Rather than suck thru the filter push out of it, right? Id def love your opinion on it all cause the cooltube reflector is pretty big in size and eventually once setup is right try and add in my LED for flower too which is more narrow and can hang differently so im not too worried about that yet.

    All the intake part i figure id do passive since it has 3 14"x4" screened areas on the very bottom to draw cooler air in. I hope that makes sense.

    I can jump in and take photos asap, i have my filter in the bag hanging up top right now so i could get a visual idea on how much space it would be taking up
     
  6. #6 aj69420g, Dec 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2012

    This information helps alot! Yes! someone who understands airflow. This is great, i could advise people like you all day :D

    You seem to be on point with everything, Passive intake is perfect. But you wanna be careful. If its 58 outside the tent you'll wanna adjust your fan lower (on the dial you said you might get) so it doesnt pull up too much cold air. Also i would close two of the passive netted air intakes. That sounds like too much intake. especially when your trying to trap about 65% of your heat. if they are 14x4 inches, i would close the 2 other ones and the last one cover half of so it is only open 4x7 inches. make sense?

    Another thing that would help your roots from getting too cold is, raise your whole tent off the ground especially in a basement (concretes cold!) Or slip many layers of fabric/rubber underneath.

    And yes you want your fan to push through the filter. Your filter = drag point for your fan, makes it work harder and over prolonged periods of time it will burn it out (talkin a few months before bearings are predicted to fail.) so since its a drag point, if its attached to your filter, and your filter wont let it get the air the fan blades move at whatever rpm, it will burnout fast.. you definitely want the fan in drawing off the tent. if ya think about it this way. a 4" fan needs a 4x4 inch air source, anything smaller and you increase the rate of the airflow. your tent should be close to airtight, when you turn your fan on and cover your intake you should see the whole tent suck in like its trying to fit in its highschool jeans haha.. Its called negative pressure.


    So having 4x7 air intake available on a 4 inch fan will allow a natural passive intake such as your looking for.

    idk what kind of filter you have. Im assuming its the chicken wire, activated carbon & Ladies legging kind. thats what i use.


    lemme know if you have more questions, glad to try and help
     
  7. Haha thank you! Ive been reading a lot about growing and everything, and only a pc grow...that failed. And i wasnt using a passive intake until i saw it online.

    I took some photos to ensure i was explaining it all properly but may be a bit out of order cause im on my cell phone.

    I may have mis-stated my temps earlier, my tent inside never hits above 71-72 now that i took with a low in the middle of the night tent is 59! Its in a spare bedroom on carpet, but concrete slab floor can explain the cold, alongside that room never gets sun. My thermostat in the house is at 70 day and night but i imagine that airflow cools it down when its lights out.

    The passive intake vents are smaller as well i went and measured them and there are three 3.5x12 inches. They are flapped for light but itd be easy to throw some alin tape over to close them off completely. With those changes im thinking closing two off and one off to be closer to 3.5x7-8"?

    Sounds like no drag for fresh air thru the cooltube equates to cooler air with less drag...meaning less heat build-up around the light.

    With no real time constraints to get it 100% i may silence my fan as much as possible by building and insulating a box of mdf or similar and suspending at tent exhaust height from my ceiling, same for my filter minus the box to minimize vibrations. Would this be a decent preventative sort of idea?

    While i am at it, i have a couple old bookshelf boxes i can lay face down to lift my tent up around 10" higher...this would help me a lot as knealing down isnt exactly the most pleasant lol.

    To answer your last question i ended up buying one of those "phresh" filters. I can see down the road how to easily remove the rivets and clean out/refill the carbon. Its a 14" long model, not sure on width.

    Hope these couple pics help explain my tent. Low passive intakes for cool air, exhaust high for heat :)
     

    Attached Files:



  8. I am in a similar situation, spare bedroom, concrete slab cool room that gets no sun. You definitely want to lay that bookshelf down, that will help your roots stay warmer. If you have a store bought filter, it doesnt matter where you put your fan they are designed to allow optimal air flow. but yes shutting the flaps as you describes 3.5x8 would be fine. you will need to run it with the hot lamp and test it once you get it, thats most important. The idea for silencing the fan is great too. Just on the top of the box allow SUFFICIENT air vents or the motor will run too hot and burn up all the oil inside and seize up.

    Keep me posted on those tests too:hello: good job bro
     
  9. Hey man a HUGE thank you for helping me clesr these things up. I now have a clear idea of the setup i want to do. Now the fun part: explaining to my wife why a fan and filter are going to be suspended from the ceiling. Haha! Im sure it wont be as bad as im imagining. But definitely something i am glad she never goes into... its sort of the man/cat cave.

    Thank you again. I will update this thread when things move along more. My light setup wont be here for another week, and then testing begins!
     
  10. No problem brother Ill be around :D
     
  11. Hey man, just wanted to update ya...my hps/mh kit came! The cooltube is a 6" diameter tube, and am ready to start playin with the setup hehe.

    One thing is the size of the hood. Its a TIGHT fit in my tent. If ill bw bringing in cool air to the tent thru passive intake thru the cooltube entry, out the exhaust to the fan and then filter...should i run 6" ducting all the way up to the fan, or reduce to 4" BEFORE the cooltube...back to 6" for the tube, and then reduce again to 4" all the way to the fan?

    Hope that makes sense. I know what you said before was the more space technically therr will be less pressure inside the ducting to move air, but would it mess up my airflow to go from 4" to 6" and back?

    Im also considering 6" ducting from start thru cooltube. And as soon as it exits the cooltube put a 6" to 4" reducer and run 4" ducting from there.

    Ill be going to home depot today to pickup insulated ducting and adapters..just want to make sure i have my setup good!

    Thanks!
     
  12. #12 aj69420g, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2012
    Ya that all sounds good. I think the best spot for your 6 > 4 inch reducer is

    Fan 6" > 6" duct to cooltube exit.

    6" cooltube intake you should attach you reducer too

    Once you run the 6" duct out of the tent use ur 4" reducer as a restriction device on the end of the cooltube that will increase your passive intake airflow & the rate of flow over your bulb.

    Your right you dont wanna go 6 > 4 > 6 it will screw it all up. Only other way is to use a 8 or 10 inch fan and reduce to 6. but seal the reducer WELL(even after clamping on your cooltube.) use gorilla tape, or outdoor use tape thats more expensive (it can take the heat).

    EDIT: do some tests on the temps and post it here, I will then try to assist ya in tweeekin it just right :)

    EDIT EDIT: you said the cooltubes a tight fit. will the reducer fit on the end? if not maybe run a foot of duct or so to ive ya room?
     
  13. I think i understand. I may jave to draw myself a visual on it to ensure...i picked up some semi-rigid alumin ducting at HD and spent god knows how long trying to search for the reducer..hidden behind everything haha.

    So let me ensure i understand the concept...

    Lets say i run a 6" duct tube from plantish level UP to the cooltube intake so from start its all 6" to be non restrictive, thru the 6" cooltube...and for size (the reducer is too long to fit in the tent) 6" bend to go to tent exit....then 6 > 4 reducer to up the pressure to my fan which is 4" intake. And then still keep 4" to my filter inlet. Is that right? Lol

    So basically everything inside the tent runs at 6" until near the fan i restrict to 4" from there. I plan on gorilla taping and clamping the crap out of each one. And then taping more to ensure it seals well lol.

    Im not sure if i want to test and setup everything before i switch these beasts to flower or not. Theyre small right now, but just bagseed so im not too worried about em. Definitely want to light the crap out of my good seeds in flower though.

    Edit: i didnt get any 6" ducting yet...stupid HD i went to had ONE 8 ft piece left and it was bent and smashed to shit...and i couldnt justify spending 30 dollars for 25 ft. Lol
     
  14. I'm upgrading my cab with a cool tube same as you..in my searches i found you can get a small 19'' cooltube for $85 on amazon everywhere else it's 27''..reducers that aren't real long are hard to find as well in big bx store i suggest specialty /repair supply store for appliances...instead of 6.5'' they have 4'' length..i only have 30'' width to work with and figure you have to do two 90 degree turns...tricky but doable with 19'' impossible with 27''
     
  15. Yes exactly. The one i got is like a 6.5" long reducer im like wtf the picture on the site looks NOTHING like that. Lol.

    My tent is smaller too. Around 32" i habe to work woth and including flanges to clamp to..the cooltube from gotham i picked up is 27". Dang wish i wpulda known haha. Maybe just a tight 90* bend on both sides to exhaust out and then reduce outside shluld be ok. But keeping it at a 6" inlet hole sounds ideal..i hope. Im sure i can tweak a bit and poke around now jat i have all but the 6" ducting
     
  16. I thought that too...two hoses one for intake the other for exhaust..then i started thinking as well as seeing pics..one hose to exhaust fan..no intake hose..intake from within the cab and run with doors open..i exhaust out window and cab is 5ft from window a/c..so 1 hose with 6'' reducer to 4'' attached to tube then fan is my plan
     
  17. Sheet. Man i wish i woulda know hydrofarm sells that shorter cooltube LOL. I saw their 250w kit...i got mine from gotham/lighthouse and with the digital ballast mh/hps switchable both bulbs and the cooltube reflector housing it was 170 shipped so i cant complain...i like this housing a lot..but im almost wondering if buying that shorter cooltube and moving the socket etc over to that one would be better...or doing that diy cooltube i saw. Hmm i think i xan get tjis one to work..shits gonna be a TIGHT fit if i even try and cram my led in there
     
  18. Actually. Mineay be tight but i think itll work. Im in my room currently taking measurements and the cooltube reflector from end to end (flanges included) is 24". My tent is 32". I can probably squeeze another inch or two just with pressure if things are tight, but that leaves me 4" about on each side to bend enough to exit the tent or go below for the cool intake from inside the tent..which should also force my passive to pull fresh air in AND over the plants with the location of the intake hole and duct location. Im just wonderin if that will be too much air moving over the plants since it will be constantly pulling that force of air over?
     
  19. Don't feel bad ..i went to about 80 sites and just lucked out finding it..i saw that diy cool tube...too much effort imo..remember he BROKE the first one building it and had to start over..pass..i'd rather get the right size..and i'm a ardent diy'er..worst come to worst you can alway sell it on CL and buy the shorter one..
     
  20. If it's 24'' total with reducer you're in decent shape sounds like
     
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