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gun control and stuff

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Renji Elric, May 13, 2010.

  1. Anyone for banning firearms is a fool. Conversely, if you're against any kind of gun control, you're also a fool. As with most things, there's a middle ground between the two extremes that works the best. Guns are really fun, but to try to argue that they're not dangerous and shouldn't be considered socially is silly.
  2. You hit it on the head when you said "non-realistically", unfortunately.

    Taking away guns does not automatically bring forth "inner peace" and "chill" amongst everyone. I mean shit, take a look at all of us here on GC. Most people here are "chill" and probably completely baked when posting here, yet we still get into some rather heated debates on various topics.

    Even if you took a group of stoners and locked them up in a Biosphere (heh, reminds me of the movie Biodome) and pumped in freshly vaped weed 24/7 into the air system, you would STILL have violence break out over some stupid shit like who took the last fucking twinkie.:smoke:

    You know what truly causes violence? Humans interacting with....other humans. And that's been that way well before modern firearms were invented. Taking them or leaving them isn't going to change much.
  3. Dude, give me a fucking break. Stopped dead in it's tracks?

    Hussein was captured and killed, as were his sons, and a good portion of the "elite" that make up the infamous deck o' cards. The rest of his regime has pretty much been dismantled. Actual democratic-style voting took place for the first time in decades. What was left of the terrorist groups survived by running away and hiding. No, we haven't captured Bin Laden, but I believe that's mainly due to the very likelihood that he is already dead.

    If you want to know what has stopped anything dead in it's tracks, it has been our politics and moral standards. Otherwise, we would (and easily could have) turned the Middle East into a glass parking lot a few trillion dollars ago.

    Dead in it's tracks...yeah right.
  4. How long has it been since George declared victory at his boat party ?
    Elliot is correct.
    A guerrilla outfit has once again stopped a crusading army.
  5. You list political achievements as if they are military victories. They are not. The two are distinct. They do overlap in cases where the military is responsible for the capture/kill.

    The fact is, the American military machine has now been engaged in combat activity in AfPak since 2001 and Iraq since 2003. An entire generation of combat equipment has been shown to be ineffective. Thousands of soldiers have perished. Trillions of dollars have been spent.

    Almost all of this has been after the initial invasions (which were stunningly successful). We are facing open ended commitments requiring hundreds of thousands of troops. And this has been caused by a bunch of illiterate iraqis and afghans armed with AK-47s and pipe bombs, who from time to time manage to obtain RPGs and other more deadly ordinance.

    Please don't confuse my stating of reality as lack of support for our troops, or their mission, etc. But avoiding reality gets us nowhere.

    It tooks us 5 years to build the atomic bomb, defeat the nazis, invade, conquer, and occupy europe, defeat Japan, and force a surrender from the Japanese. Combat operations were concluded, and though troops remained in place in both europe and Japan until the present day, they are not engaged in combat operations.

    It has now taken us 7 and 9 years respectively, against a foe fighting against us using insurgent tactics. Combat operations still continue. Asymmetrical warfare is highly effective, and in this case it has pushed the US military to near exhaustion and the US treasury into bankruptcy and insolvency.

    And this was all set in motion by a couple guys with box cutters who took over airplanes, and then a bunch of guys with AK-47s and pipe bombs. By any definition of the word, the American military machine has been forced into a stalemate by goat farmers.

    What precisely is it that we disagree on? Or are you confusing admitting what reality is with somehow not 'supporting the troops?'
  6. [​IMG]

    Its not too hard either.
  7. Remember, myth busters was able to make a cannon, capable of firing an actual cannon ball, out of duct tape.

    Duct tape.

    Banning guns will work as well as banning marijuana has worked. That is to say, not at all.

    On a barren planet when battling a monster Cpt. Kirk was able to make a firearm out of nothing but the materials on the battlefield.
  8. C'mon, get with the times. Everybody knows Mythbusters are a government conspiracy maaaan... :p

    In all seriousness though, prohibition will never work if imposed on a gigantic scale - not only that, but it's entirely unethical too. But, like I was saying, if we reduced the scope of the prohibition down to towns or communities where everybody consents not to have a gun and not to allow guns in... then, at the very least, at least they have the choice to try to make it work, and since they ideally all are in favour of the prohibition there'd be no demand for guns there.

    But yes, I'm not one to propose that it's wise for any country to start prohibiting guns. Regulating them, certainly - it's just as idiotic to allow any fool that wants to to get a gun. But yeah, prohibition has never been the answer...
  9. Curious-- how has banning guns worked in Chicago and Washington DC?
  10. Wouldn't be able to tell you off the top of my head and cbf googling anything on such a cold and miserable morning...

    However, I'll tell you how it is here, to the best of my knowledge. Australia took a much harder line on guns a while back after the Port Arthur Massacre that produced 30 slayings or so. As such, it's quite hard to get a gun here - they're very much regulated, you've got to pass a whole load of tests to get a basic gun lisence and a whole shit load more to get a lisence for anything larger than a handgun. To my knowledge, automatic rifles are totally outlawed.

    Can't tell you the figures, but it's INCREDIBLY rare to hear of a gun murder anywhere in Australia. I'm not exaggerating, you might hear of one incident involving a gun for 6 months. Maybe because guns were never that big over here in the first place, maybe because the people seem to be naturally less twitchy and paranoid than you yanks, or maybe because our tough gun laws have worked... I wouldn't be able to tell you, just that we have no real problem with guns whatsoever here.

    As a snippet, I've only seen one handgun in my life - when an evicted neighbour shot the locks off his front door to squat in his old house. Guy was crazy, I don't fucking know WHERE he got a gun from (he was literally homeless, the house is a government emergency accomodation house... he got evicted for trashing the shit out of it), but he tried to BURN the lock off with a lighter first. Literally, he held a lighter underneath it and started wailing about "DEM CUUUUUUUNTS!" when it failed to simply melt for him. He tried with a hacksaw, but was too drunk or stoned to succeed. Finally, he went away and came back with a handgun and fucking shot the lock off. Sad thing is, he was actually generally better and more well behaved than the LAST people who got evicted from the house... :D
  11. You know there is a town in Kansas or Texas that made it MANDATORY to own a gun, after that crime rates fell dramatically, esspecially violent crime.

  12. Comparable to Switzerland.

    BBC News | EUROPE | Switzerland and the gun
  13. Norway and Finland too have similar systems of national guard, where the soldiers keep their fully-automatics and service pistols at home. Besides, hunting is a big sport here, so the gun-density is more or less on par with the US. Gun related crimes and domestic accidents however, are very low.

    One reason beeing, you need a license to own a gun. Anyone can get one, except if one have a history of violence, drug or alcohol abuse or mental disorders. This ensures legal gun-ownership is reserved for mature responsible people.

    Also there are some regulations on storage and use of guns, and you can't walk around with one in public.
  14. Wasn't that one of bin laden's stated goals?

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