yeah, it's probably the thing to say to those people that are trying to start fights or prove that their beliefs are the correct ones... and this is to both the people that are all about starting fights with the anti-theists as well as the anti-theists themselves. seriously, your beliefs are your own. if you NEED to prove yourself right to as many people as possible, you have issues. if you're trying to start fights or arguments because of your beliefs, you have more than just issues, you have a whole bloody subscription. the term "live and let live." if i'm not trying to force you to believe in the same god(s) i do, what makes you think that it's appropriate for you to try and force your beliefs down my throat? if you are like that, you're no better than those proselytizing shits that go around knocking on people's doors trying to ask if you've found their particular brand of jesus. if you're starting fights or trying to wave your e-penis around because you believe in something, you are just pathetic. and this is to BOTH sides of these arguments. if all you have to say is "prove me wrong" how about you STFU and GTFO. we are all adults, how about we all start acting the part.
It's a bit like asking a 6 month old baby to start running and doing acrobatics. Everyone is growing up, we are on different levels.
look, though you may like to say that you have the best of intentions, you seem to have made a habit out of challenging people's personal beliefs. granted, if a particular person is trying to force you to believe in the same thing they do, they need to understand the concept of it being a personal belief and stop trying to convert people. to that, i understand your motive but it would be more prudent to tell them what you are saying through a private message. that you make them publicly view-able smacks of a runaway ego. really, just take a step back and think about it from someone elses perspective. if you want to keep on yammering on about how your beliefs are correct and theirs are wrong, you are no better than a mormon that won't stop knocking on people's door.
This, it's called debating, not 'forcing beliefs' or whatever shit people pull out when they're losing a debate.
If they put it in a public forum, why shouldn't I? Looks to me like you've just challenged a thread in a public forum. Why shouldn't you? I don't know what you think you're reading in that thread, but it's old and it was meant to address an absurdity that existed in lots of places at the time I posted it. Think about it from my perspective. I have to answer the mormon at the door, and they want my money or to convert me (or whatever it is they actually want) and their argument is "you can't prove us wrong." It's an absurd argument, and I pointed it out.
ReallyRed: It's ok to have people challenge your beliefs. It can have two outcomes... 1. You make them think 2. They make you think I realise Postal's thread can seem offensive at first, but its really just to get you to think. Philosophy is about being intellectual and I think some spiritualists don't agree and that's completely fine. We all have our own opinions and sometimes if you don't agree, its best to just turn the other cheek.
For sure I can get behind the first half of what DBV said. If that I would even ask is offensive, I think it says more about you than me.
What point would this be? That's not nice to challenge posts or ideas? That it's disrespectful to debate points brought up? No-one on this site (to my knowledge) has ever said that people aren't welcome to whatever beliefs they hold. People have correctly pointed out that some of those beliefs are incorrect though. Again,if people have a problem with this then maybe posting on a forum isn't the best idea, you know, a place where people discuss things.
it's called trying to be the better person. as for my post, i'm just getting sick of seeing people trolling in here where their beliefs would be more appropriate to be placed in the "science and nature" sub-forum. if people talking about their beliefs is indignifying to you, you have problems. you're right, it IS an absurd argument... ironic how you see them saying it as absurd but your saying the opposite of it is equally absurd and yet you decide to indulge in that same behavior, just turning it around. saying "you can't prove/disprove it" is just an idiotic thing to say from any point of view. if someone wants to talk about their faith, this is the sub-forum to do it it... if they're trying to convert people or start fights, they deserve to be slapped down... but privately.
To interject, spirituality and philisophy. How many times does this have to be pointed out in this subforum?
and who decides what beliefs are correct or incorrect? they're personal beliefs and the whole concept of faith itself is something that cannot be proven or disproven. even Einstein, one of the most intelligent people and one of the most brilliant scientists believed in a higher power. what makes you think you're smarter than he is to believe otherwise and what gives you the right to try and poke holes in someone's faith simply because they don't believe in the same things you do?
It sounds to me like that is more your problem than mine. The thread that touched you off is about an argument fallacy, not about any belief. It involves your imagining a scenario that challenges a belief. That is only a very specific invitation to those who use the fallacious argument to try and settle the fallacious argument themselves. Not because I want to convince them of anything, but only because I want them to be confronted with the ridiculousness of that fallacious type of argument. I don't care what you believe. All I care is that if you think a valid argument to support is is "you can't prove what I believe doesn't exist" that you should face the absurdity of that line of argument. For all I know, you have other approaches. Great, if you do. If you don't, then you should read the thread and watch how practically everyone who engages in the argument eventually agrees with the fact of the absurdity. Even you objected to the absurdist role I decided to play as a fiction to keep the conversation moving. I mean, look at this. You know I was pretending, don't you?
It's really not about who's smarter... some people have questions and some have answers. It's basically how philosophy works. No right or wrong necessarily.. just a nice gentle mind fuck. Haha
Beliefs like the earth being 6000 years old are simply incorrect, that's really all there is to it. Now if you're saying you believe in a God i won't agree but there's no proof either way so it's at least a reasonable belief in the spectrum of things and it's not reasonable to say it's incorrect or correct either way (though I will point out occam's raor can be applied, because it can). If you come in and say the world is flat then you're simply wrong and that should be pointed out, you're more than welcome to hold this incorrect belief for the rest of your life. But this is a public forum for debate, if you don't like your beliefs subjected to analysis then don't post them on a public forum. These are my beliefs, how dare you challenge them.
i do agree, saying "you can't prove/disprove it" is rediculous but is it your place to challenge people's beliefs? no, it is not. you don't live their lives, you don't know them past a forum on the internet. so what makes you think you have the right to try and tell someone that their faith is wrong, however veiled that statement may be? see, you can wrap a turd in bacon and fry it but despite the crispy bacon on the outside, it's still a turd.
[quote name='"DBV"']It's really not about who's smarter... some people have questions and some have answers. It's basically how philosophy works. No right or wrong necessarily.. just a nice gentle mind fuck. Haha[/quote] Last line says it all.. Some people just can't handle having to think why they believe in something and others enjoy the debate.