This may or may not be a rant. We'll see. I am an Agnostic, and my friend "loves Satan". Anyways, the plan was to meet my boy at the mall, walk around for a little bit, and then have our other friend pick us up and bring us to to the bar. So I get there, and when I go up to him, he's like, "Dude, there are these people that wanna talk to you." I'm like, "Really?? Who is it? Someone I knew from back in the day?" He wouldn't give me a straight answer. So he rushes me to the middle of the mall and brings me to a kiosk. Before I had a chance to object (by this time, I saw the pamphlets and all that shit), my boy tells the lady, "This is the one who you need to talk to." Ok... She's starts with her sphiel, and I was trying so hard not to laugh - only for the simple reason that my Satanist friend set me up for this shit! Motherfuckers had me there for 45 fucking minutes. I could have just WALKED AWAY, but the main dude just kept going to the bible. The main guy had to talk to me because I contested everything the woman said, so this guy tried on me. I used history, science, astronomy and physics, and all he/they had was the bible. Whatever argument I had, it was answered in the bible. There was no talking to these people, but I held my ground. The main guy was getting agitated - I could see it in his face. I basically told them that I believe that YHWH, Jehova, and Jesus existed, but they were not my god. I even went as far as telling them that I believe that they were all Extra Terrestrials (THAT sounds crazy, but the bible story DOESN'T???). They literally ignored me on that one. I asked them "Why is your religion correct, but all others are wrong?" Right back to the bible - "Because it's God's word, and what he says is the true word". Going around in circles. There were so many arguments that I gave, but these people were clearly throwing all logic aside and taking the bible literally - and using it as a reference. No matter how many times I would ask them "HOW do yo know it's God's word, and not BS?", the guy used the bible again for his answer. As I finally walked away (I agreed to disagree), I almost puked when I saw one of them talking to 4 ten year-old kids - trying to convert them. WTF, man? So yeah, no logic. Brainwashed for sure. Sue me for saying that. Now, in our next post, I will copy and paste the words from one of the pamphlets they gave me (I went to the site and found the same article there). Look at this shit, and you tell me if I'M crazy:
This is from the pamphlet. MY 2 cents will be in red. I've Got My Own Religion "Whatever you believe is alright." "Everybody has their own beliefs." "Just so you believe something." These are sayings which you will hear from many people today. They sound nice, and help to make people feel good, since their own beliefs are said to be as valid as those of anyone else. "After all," some say, "can you really know anything for sure?" People who claim to have "the truth" are looked down upon as being arrogant and intolerant. For some reason, people can accept the idea that any religion is valid as long as it doesn't claim to be the only true religion! Do you know why that is? It's Satan's way of getting people to believe anything but the one thing that will remove his grip on their souls. According to the bible. And this is always the main excuse. It is not true that all religious beliefs are of equal value. It is not true that "Whatever you believe is alright." Says WHO?!? Is this indeed a fact??? The very fact that "Everybody has their own beliefs" is what God says is man's biggest problem--we have exchanged His truth for our beliefs. "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way" (Isaiah 53:6). The bible as the ONLY point of reference. Man's confused religions stand in opposition to God's simple way to life. Man's ways are the wide, tolerant, sin-ignoring way that ends in destruction. "Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction ... narrow is the way that leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" (Matthew 7:13,14). There is one sense in which it is true that what you believe doesn't matter. What you believe, or what religious men have taught, does not change the truth of God's Word! Just believing something doesn't make it so. Jumping off the top of a skyscraper onto the street below will kill you, no matter how strongly you believe otherwise. Ok, THIS is a fact and can indeed be substantiated. Entering into eternity with the firm belief that there is no God, or that your beliefs or your works are good enough to merit His approval will not change the outcome: "Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15). First off, how are you going to compare a fact with something that can not be proven? Not just that, but it clearly says right there (in other words) that if you don't follow "God's word", you will burn in the lake of fire (for eternity). Now, a 20 year old kid behind the kiosk asked me what my problem was with Religion. One of the things I said was "Because you are sent to burn for eternity for not accepting JC as your lord and savior, and that is poppycock. What kind of god would be so cruel, when his own creation (Satan) is "So smart and cunning" and is good at fooling humans? Why are WE the ones to get punished when it's Yahweh's fault anyway?" He main guy took over at this point and said, "It doesn't say that in the bible! You go to hell for not repenting your sins. Well, Bullshit. It says it right there in Revelation 20:15 Truth is not a matter of opinion. Either something is true or it is false. Jesus Christ claims to be the truth. He did not say "I am a way," but rather, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me" (John 14:6). Semantics??? When it comes to faith, it is not, "Just so you believe something," but "Just so you believe Christ." Faith in Jesus Christ, who laid down His life on the cross of Calvary and rose victoriously from the dead, is the only way to everlasting life and forgiveness of sins. Just as everyone has turned to his own way, each of us must individually turn from our rebellion. No one can save himself, since salvation is "not of works" (Ephesians 2:8,9). Because God is the One who saves, salvation is as certain as His promise: "He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life" (John 5:24). Jesus Christ is the only way. Won't you stop rejecting Him, and by faith receive Him as your Saviour today? "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12). Need I say more? I mean, I'M fucking crazy for believing in Aliens, but this shit is allright?
They are trying to 'save' you....give them some credit for trying, it takes a lot of courage to try to convert people in a mall, they would get laughed at by many people (maybe not to their face but out of earshot) Be thankful that you have the intelligence and rationality to debunk their 'logic', and can make up your own mind. Unfortunately, many people prefer to be followers and do not think for themselves. Unfortunately, most Christians bring only one tactic to debates: I'm right, and you are wrong. The bible says this, it must be true. Just because something is written down, does not mean it is entirely true (lol mass media) The most meaningful wisdom is usually lost in translation This is the fundamental error, and they cannot even open their mind to the possibility that they could be wrong.
I understand where you are coming from, i hate people trying to push their religion on me. I believe what i believe and no one will change that. The thing i hate most though, are the assholes who have the audacity to mock me for what i believe. It's too bad more Christians can't follow their own beliefs better.
Hey, I'm down too, Although I'm not trying to convert you. It's impossible. So I am unsure as to what we would be debating...
Well, my take and beliefs are considered extremely unorthodox... Lets start with this: Why is Christianity the "correct" religion when there were many before and many after?
This is hard territory. Personally I cannot tell you that it is the only way. I believe it is, because It is how God has saved me, but I am not God. I cannot tell you how to be saved. I can direct you to what has lead me, and attempt to describe the "goings-on"in my past and present life. I can tell you everything I "know" but what you believe is entriely up to you. I cannot blame you because who am I to say God cannot save me one way, and others another. His way is beyond me. So I cannot tell you "why" I is correct, only that I believe in it, and why I believe it. Belief is not easy, and not everyone will be saved. I simply love God and have been given this love via Christianity.
See, I love "God" too, but my god differs from yours. No offense, but Jehova acts like a little jealous kid with an ego problem - killing people for stupid reasons (I have a whole article with bible citations of who he killed and why), etc. See, I don't understand how just because you feel "God" means that it's the one from the OT and NT (Which I think are two different gods, tbh). I'm sure you've read my other posts where I say that I believe that all of the myth gods (bible, koran, Sumerian Mythology, the Indian Gods, and perhaps even Greek Mythology - not to mention the ones I HAVEN'T mentioned) were all just Extra Terrestrials. It makes a whole hell of a lot of sense when you think about it. They came from THE HEAVENS, which translates to sky... I mean, come on. All of these gods, all acting like children WITH THEIR HUMAN TRAITS. One of the first commandments even says "Do not have any other GODS before me, for I am a jealous God). How could an omnipotent, ubiquitous, all knowing god that IS EVERYTHING and the creator of the universe act like such a child? THIS GUY CREATED THE UNIVERSE?! Plus, he created Satan, and if he is all knowing, he knew what was going to happen. I don't even need to go on with that one, even though that is the biggest contradiction that exists in the bible itself. Flying wheels in the sky, Chariots of fire, the multiplicity of GODS (Polytheism). I mean, wow. So yeah. I do believe Jehova existed. That is not the question for me. It's just that SOB isn't MY god. IMHO, the absolute true god would not be judging, and would only be in control of the laws of the universe (physics, etc.), and thus would just be a force (force of creation). Anything else was ET's, IMHO. Alright. You're up dude. No hard feelings no matter how this turns out.
Yeah, they definitely aren't setting up in the mall to host a free exchange of ideas, they are there to let you know you are going to hell... I typically don't talk to people who aren't interested in my ideas, just in pressing their agenda on me.
Nope people definitely died in the bible, and it most definitely can be said that God caused it. I will agree with you there. I mean, when it comes down to literal and figurative the lines can be thin, because of how much it matters to life application, you are right. I guess I don't see the issue. I mean, you won't believe in a God, because you think he had all these people killed? In reality there deaths, if they happened, would have happened anyways, because if God doesn't exist, they did. If he does, then the whole thing begins to real interesting. I can't argue the semantics of God killing. I really don't know. I have a hard enough time with belief. I can tell you what I think, and back it up with the bible, but I can't prove anything to you. If you want to not believe in God, because you think his killing a lot of people makes him less "God", "I AM", I cannot sway you. It is simply put, your right. Again, I think the alien theory is valid, and it has many possibles, but in the end, I just come to the conclusion that there is more for a "God" to be. Would aliens have created the universe? I understand science is showing how the universe works, and how it was made, but that doesn't discount a "God" being in existence. So you think the all-powerful being of the old testament, to name one, is not the God of everything, just the Jews then? And at the same time, you don't believe that this God would have thought to save it all through Jesus, from the beginning? I am curious as to what you think Yaweh is? A book (or a bunch) written by men to describe things which we can barely begin to put words too? How hard is it to communicate now, through text and language. How many times does error exist. Not to mention telephone. Not to mention the very transference from God to man. A perfect love story. Ravaged by humanity. To fit one puny book. That is the text of truth. As to why human traits and other mismatched. If you don't understand the telephone analogy... mesg me... And I think under careful study you would find him far less child like. We are children in our comprehension. Even our most brilliant. And think for how long these things have been debated. I will say this though, I felt the things I now have words for. Sometimes, communication is much deeper then language. I would be curious as to your problems with Satan existing? Since what else can we do, but wonder on these things... Although, I suppose it really all comes down to your definition of god.
I DO believe in a god. But my version is different. Mine doesn't judge and send to "Hell". I think the Abrahamic god was a false god. I believe there were a lot of them. Baal, Beezelbub (Satan, etc.) are/were physical beings that were either perceived as "The Almighty", or the "gods" themselves set it up like that. Who knows? Either way you look at it (if even 1 of these theories are true), humans are caught in the middle of something that is FACTUALLY true even according to the bible: God knows the future. Created Satan, LET him rebel, created US - KNOWING what was going to happen, and still sending people to hell for turning away from "god" or just not believing in it. Scare tactics... So whether Jehova/Ywhw is "really" the almighty or he's an ET, I don't respect him much for this whole charade. I think we were just created (perhaps by them) and thrown into a huge, unnecessary drama fest. Some will burn for eternity, while the ones in the club supposedly go to the good place. So, a pointless play. I lold at the "God of the Jews" thing, but then I thought about it. Actually, he said that they were "The Chosen People" for some reason. Who knows, but it's an interesting concept. And with the Jesus thing, why was that necessary in the first place? Just don't create Satan in the first place if you know your boy is gonna fuck you over. See what I mean? And I don't think at all that Aliens created the Universe. Whatever created matter created the universe. I don't think it would be the thing to go around and judging - just there for creation, physics, structure, etc. I don't think Yahweh did all of that. Too imperfect, too full of ego (A "God" shouldn't have that. technically), and he's too inconsistent. The Universe is perfect it seems - from the perfect assembly of atoms to the way planets revolve around a star that revolves around the center of a galaxy. Jehova could create all of that and all of the complex life (It never even says HOW he did it - he just "dit it"), but fuck OUR situation up? It's an obvious paradox that is very often overlooked. Since the Universe was around (as far as we know it) for about 8 billion years before Earth, that's PLENTY of time for other civilizations to have evolved to even some Star-Trek shit. I mean, that's ALOT of time and ALOT of places for life (It is estimated that 70 percent of the stars we can see have planets around them). That's 400 Billion times 400 Billion. This is not even assuming that the Universe could be infinite... And there is something that we both agree on. It strengthens my theory because of this: The stuff written back then was written in a language with not that many words. There were no words for UFO's, technological things (that were probably interpreted as your good old MAGIC that has been in stories for years and years and years. If we brought a tazer back in time to biblical days and tazed someone, you tell me what they would think. What would the people who saw it say? What would they say if they saw a fucking plane in the sky?????? I HAVE carefully studied the dude. And then I studied OTHER dudes that had the same traits - were part of the same kinds of stories, and then just realized that whatever he is, he's just like the rest. Well, according to my beliefs, I believe this guy Satan exists, with his own followers called demons. God - Angels. Satan - Demons... Two different teams, playing for the same thing - US. I believe Jehova and his Angels were just ETs. They came here, set up base, and then did the Genesis "experiment". In Genesis 1:26, it says, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". They say in Science that we came from a common ancestor. The missing link. We haven't found that ancestor. But the common ancestor is very common with the apes and monkeys. Go figure. Like I said, take the bible, and modernize it. Try to read in between the lines. You'll see what I'm talking about... Impreprex out.
Ah. To be blunt, you can't. Immidiatly you will fall into some logical fallacy. Now, do not get me wrong, I think you are a great guy with a pretty good head on your shoulders. But if you think you can defend christian doctrine (ie the bible) using logic, you won't get far. For example, there is nothing logical about the mythological christ, just for starters. For one thing, is that silly concept of original sin which the christ is supposed to absolve us of. To begin with, none of us are responsible for the misdoings of our parents are we? So why are we supposed to be responsible for the misdoings of some entirely mythological Adam and Eve from the entirely mythological biblical creation story? And not to forget, how will sacrificing a demi-god (human posing as a god and if you're so inclined, vice versa), a really cruel act, especially considering the execution method, in any way manner or form absolve anyone of anything? I just don't get it. And then you got the trinity doctrine. Don't get me started on that. Though, in the christian defense, not that many christians know this, the trinity doctrine have little, nearly none, justification in the actual bible...
Hell is simply existence without God. So according to the bible, what now? Exodus 3 And that God of the Israelites, whom all others (even some Israelites) had forsaken offers the greatest deal in the world and say no? Because you believe he was one of many false gods? Satan was an angel. Exodus 3 Even there hell is down just as a polar opposite of God, the most high. Sure don't create Lucifer. Knowledge of said transgressions should mean earlier action? But then you have this whole thing about choice. Free will. One polar opposite needs another. The duality. Male and female. Sun and Night. Water land. Up down. Left right. Good evil. Granted it is not proof of anything, just how I how thinks make the most sense to me. How can it be true love if there is only one way? Would THAT not be slavery? Matter is neither created nor destroyed. Again, you cannot put man's qualities on God. I agree with you. Otherwise it would not be God but man. Anything that would be God would have to be God. Seriously. If you are not "God-like" Then you are not God. I can not be God, because I am not "God-like" although I made in God's image. (Consciousness) See the difference? In order to be God one must be everything necessary to be God. Otherwise ____ is not God. The answer is I AM .... And I'm not saying that life cannot exist on other planets, or other universes or even billions of years ago, or even other dimensions. I am saying God would be in control of all that as well. Otherwise twould not be God. Who knows, they are likely saved in different ways we cannot comprehend because they would be of such a different species. Of course, I doubt we would find any that fit the properties of God. For proof defeats the purpose of faith, and there is no choice, when only one choice makes real sense.
If God exists, that means he knows everything there is to be known . His intelligence would be so high that he would never get anything wrong. So, you are a confused young man with all the best intentions in the world but feel Religion is a tool used by humanity to control populations and are afraid that you will burn because you don't repent your sins and give thanks and go to church? God is too smart to misinterpret how you feel about him and life. So, if you truly are a good person, God will know. And, if God doesn't exist then there's nothing to worry about anyways.
Sorry, I meant "I can put up a pretty damn good fight." In the nicest way possible. But, I do suppose the bare bones of it will always come down to individual faith after all.