GOP healthcare bill

Discussion in 'Politics' started by nativetongues, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Every trump supporter said this bill would be different from the house bill but a lot of the same policies carry over to the senate version. Medicaid expansion will be ended by 2021. Medicaid will be capped at current levels which means over time there will be massive cuts to Medicaid and people will inevitably be thrown off as states restructure Medicaid based on the limited funds they have. Certain essential health benefits will no longer be required like mental health care, rehab, pregnancy, and several others. Employers will no longer be required to give their employees insurance. Insurance companies will be able to charge old people five times as much as younger people or more meaning older people will pay significantly more.

    Additionally people who are subsidized because they make less than 400 percent of the poverty line will have to pay about 16 percent of their income into healthcare instead of the 9 percent in ACA. There is no longer any individual mandate which means prices will likely go up across the board except for the youngest people. On top of that they may cover people with pre existing conditions but there is a waiver for states to bring back lifetime and annual limits. Meaning an insurance company can simply cut off a lot of people with pre existing conditions fairly quickly and the coverage won't do them much good.

    The only people better off in the plan are the youngest and healthiest people who likely won't even benefit much because due to price stickiness it's unlikely that prices will go down significantly for them. This piece of shit healthcare bill is making cuts to the poorest and sickest coverage simply to give the money away in tax cuts to the wealthiest people in this country.
     
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  2. You mean let them keep their money... that you feel ownership of for some reason.

    This bill is a more moderate version of the house bill. I don't think it goes far enough; we should repeal Obamacare and start over with national market reforms and empowering states to enact their own welfare schemes.
     
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  3. The Medicaid piece is really going to effect the population I work with. Which is a shame because it is how many of them afford mental health wellness checkups and their medication to maintain their symptoms.

    Whether directly or indirectly, a large portion of this country will feel the effects of this, even Trump's supporters. But as long as the rich get richer who cares, amirite?
     
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  4. So the young and healthy get a good deal except they don't need it, the old and sick pay much more but use all the resources. Sounds kinda fair to me.
     
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  5. source?
     
  6. There are too many old people anyway.
     
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  7. There certainly are, and even more idiots.
     
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  8. The problem with your characterization is that running a "fair" system is a meaningless buzzword. To you that might be fair but to a hardcore ancap even this system would be unfair because it would involve the state which they see as unnaceptable. I would prefer to subsidize the weakest and poorest people so they don't inevitably die to lack of healthcare access. If you don't that's fine but the GOP should just be intellectually honest about that instead of pretending for example that 14 million people losing access to Medicaid will lead to better healthcare outcomes for these people. Can't go to the ER to get chemo treatment or medication for diabetes or a million other things that can't be treated by the ER. On top of that the current system is an abysmal failure. The healthcare market is ripe with inefficiencies even if it was fully private. First, a system without licensing of any type would lead to a shitload more malpractice. Second, the healthcare market is a market where there is deficient consumer information. Customers have no idea how much they should pay and as a result don't have a good ability to negotiate prices. This means normal market forces will not react because I won't know to pass on a pricing point cause I have no sense of reference. Whereas if bread was too expensive you would have a good idea and buy it somewhere else. On top of there is no real alternative for a lot of treatments which leads to massive price inelasticity. If I'm going to die I will pay out the ass for something which leads to a lot of inefficiency in the market. Lastly a lot of hospital care is performed when someone is unable to consciously make a decision because they are in a compromised state. This person is not going to be able to sit around and shop ER's because they could die in the meantime. This would additionally weaken a lot of the natural market forces that make other products more successful through competition. Healthcare wouldn't be the worst thing ever in a private market but this fantasy that it would be so great if we just got the govenrment out is retarded. There are so many forces in a healthcare market that make it extremely inefficient.
     
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  9. Remember Those Old people helped pay your way
    Most likely for everything
     
  10. Move to Belgium if you want Socialism so badly
     
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  11. It's fair when I have to pay the same amount as everyone else in my risk category. Your idea of fair would have premiums that vary according to income. If you want to add welfare that should be figured separately.
     
  12. It's the American way, pay more and get less. They want us to believe that their 800 billion cut to Medicaid is not really a cut. Yow-Za. It's not the duty of the rich to take care of the poor, it's the duty of the poor to take care of the rich. Who cares that the US has fallen to 2nd tier status in quality of life. What really matters is the rich will be getting their money back where it belongs, in untaxable offshore accounts. So lets get with the new program, and hurry up and die.
     
  13. #15 nativetongues, Jun 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
    Whenever you complain about modern American laws or system of government my response isn't some petty response like well if you don't like it move. No I don't want to move I want to vote for people who actually represent my views and change the existing system. I like my country I just think we would be better off if we made certain changes. I know you disagree but last time I checked it's perfectly valid for Americans to fight for political change. Responses like that aren't conducive to conversation. Why don't you try to rebuke some of my claims or provide an alternative viewpoint?
     
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  14. My preferred system is something along the lines of the German healthcare system. A multiplayer healthcare system with strong govenrment oversight to keep costs down that heavily subsidizes the poorest people. I think this type of system leads to better healthcare outcomes for a greater number of people and better costs overall. These types of plans also utilize strong market forces while simaltaneously curbing some of the inefficiencies of our current insurance model. Somebody has to pay for alll the administrative costs of insurance companies and that is all of us.
     
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  15. How about you actually read and dispute any of the things claimed in these articles? Attacking the source instead of attacking the actual arguments or points is a super weak debate tactic. I challenge you to find even one innacuracy in any of the links I posted. It's much easier to dismiss things that you disagree with politically wholecloth instead of actually engaging with a varying opinion. I hate it when liberals do it to Fox News and it's stupid when you claim that everyone at WaPo, nyt, and abc news are just liberals conspiring against the republican healthcare bill.
     
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  16. In post war Germany, the FDR Democrats had plans in place after the war to help raise Germany out it's ashes. Most of Europe paid a dear price during the war thus the "all for one and one for all" approached to socialized care. Here in America, corporate interests made sure we kept healthcare private. It was to their interest to keep it business as usual. IMO
     
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  17. I always hated the "repeal and replace" line Trump and Republicans pushed during election season. I don't want a replacement, I just want the damn thing repealed. I'm against government being in the business of healthcare. All we'll get is more expensive healthcare with longer lines and longer wait times.

    If people have the money to get taxed for healthcare, they have the money to buy whatever they need for themselves. I don't need some bureaucrat in DC thinking they know what's best for me. Cap Medicare/Medicaid and SS and allow the people who have paid into it to recieve the benefits they deserve and phase it out and end it entirely. A better system can be provided if we allow the free market to work without government interference and a forced government monopoly.
     
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  18. To be honest I didn't read the article, not because I don't like the source but because I don't need to read an article to understand that the GOP bill is horseshit. Just like most bills passed by either major party, it's bullshit.
     

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