God's Complexity

Who's to say she does have parts?

How can your god create itself?
This is easily the most avoided religious question ever

You clearly never wanted to hear anyone elses opinions, you just wanted to reinforce your own.

It doesnt matter if Zappa said it or spongebob said it, the idea is there and you have to read it and take it into account.

so far so good...

Yikes! I disagree, not only would killing people based on their beliefs fulfill the stereotype of cold hearted atheists, it probably wouldnt work and it might start another world war. Athiesm is something that the world will have to warm to, Religions around the world are slowly being discredited and shed off. Until then we have to live together, enduring the stupidity of bible beaters and zealots as peacefully as possible.

 

Assuming that none of us have met god, gods or goddesses, or any davine force of some sort, can any of us prove or disprove anything? No. So it's anyones guess as to what is right and what is wrong. But limiting yourself to what others say is right is just ignorant. My friends smoke some week and think a bit.

Indeed, it really doesn't, most of the things humans say are true, are just things we say. time, gravity, all dimensions are aspecs people create to simplify things. It's all a matter of perspective.

 

The universe runs on observable laws... of course it does, what's wrong with you last two posters? Do you have any idea what you're implying when you say that the universe has no laws. That is downright ridiculous. EXCLAMATION MARK
Science exists as a way to empirically test a theory or belief. It is based on perspective, yes. It's simply a natural desire to fulfill our curiosity. And much like myths and reigious variations of myths, they try to explain why things are the way they are *through the persepctive of the people telling the story*.

"The meek shall inherit the Earth."
What was the point of bringing up this belief? BUT! This poster has a very strong point amidst his so-called arrogance: that we will never get it, that we will never understand.

 

I was half kidding, but only half. When I think about all the destruction religion is causing the world I can't help but notice it seems as if religion WANTS the world to end. It's science vs. religion. Reason vs. Faith. Progress vs. Destruction. I'm starting to think the only way to preserve the world is to rid it of the thing working against it's preservation - religion. How do we do that? Stomp it out before it's too late. The world will be left with reasonable people and maybe we can actually get something done instead of waiting for an old man to tell us whom his/our imaginary friend thinks we should hate now or how he wants a select group to exploit the majority.

 

.... well there was this one time when i was on magic mushrooms when i could know all, and could go check, and of course, there was always uncertainty, a knowing of how no matter how many ways you recheck the knowing from multiple perspectives and stepping backs and stepping outs, there's always that little bit of uncertainty to keep you sane.... anyways, this one time (ha, and probably nearly every other) i had that level of "knowing", so grand, large, all encompassing, but at the same time, so rich with vibrant finess, a fidelity of comprehension simultaneous with the big picture... the knowing, the speed, the fullness... but of course... then the mushrooms wore off and some time later i came to an internet forum to talk about such things.

 

if god is floating around doing his/her thing why must s/he have created 'us' for a reason

for all you know this universe is one of it's fuck ups

hell it could be the moldy cheese the stoned fucker forgot to toss out or a bit of piss on the head of it's dick it forgot to shake off

pretty silly to think we play some important role in 'its' life based on our own day to day experiences

come to think of it ...pretty fucking silly to actually believe in omipotent beings and no religion isn't vital to advancement in fact it preys on ignorance and retards everything 'n everyone it touches

if anyone here can dish up 10 people who created new technology through belief in a higher power I'll be shocked and they'll still be 10/100 in favor of non-believers who created or discovered great things

 

yeah, sorry for being a dick guys, i was having a bad day.

i think that atheists and religious people should at least tolerate each other enough to hear each other out, hopefully without any dogma and rhetoric involved in these kinds of exchanges. this is something that i have been guilty of and has been brought to my attention before.

everybody has their own biases, we can't help it, but it's no excuse for poor behaviour and whatnot.

p.s. - anybody ever seen american history x? just saw it for the first time yesterday, everybody should watch it, very touching.

 

...And where are you pulling this from?

I agree with you here.

Why only those two options? God isn't a simple creator, God is immortal and omniscient why does your simple definitions and assumptions have to apply to 'him'?

Not exactly caused...more like created. you seem to be throwing around the word "cause" a lot. Lets look at the definition of the word:

1. a person or thing that acts, happens, or exists in such a way that some specific thing happens as a result; the producer of an effect: You have been the cause of much anxiety. What was the cause of the accident?
2. the reason or motive for some human action: The good news was a cause for rejoicing.
3. good or sufficient reason: to complain without cause; to be dismissed for cause.
4. Law. a. a ground of legal action; the matter over which a person goes to law.
b. a case for judicial decision.

5. any subject of discussion or debate.
6. a principle, ideal, goal, or movement to which a person or group is dedicated: the Socialist cause; the human rights cause.
7. the welfare of a person or group, seen as a subject of concern: support for the cause of the American Indian.
8. Philosophy. a. the end or purpose for which a thing is done or produced.
b. Aristotelianism. any of the four things necessary for the movement or the coming into being of a thing, namely a material (material cause), something to act upon it (efficient cause), a form taken by the movement or development (formal cause), and a goal or purpose (final cause).

The word isn't always associated with origin, so why use it?

my own assumption? who's assuming that? Just because God created the existence of the universe God must have been created too? where is the logic in that?? God is something we currently cannot relate to nor comprehend so how can one apply logic toward something that isn't completely understood? You can't attempt to break down life and existence using faulty logic and assumptions. Energy cannot be created or destroyed right? so where is the cause in energy? Like I said in my last post when concerning God you have to postulate considering God is something that's basically unfathomable.

How so?

Not exactly

3. 'so complicated or intricate as to be hard to understand or deal with'

^ I pulled that right from the dictionary.com link you posted...



Who cares if God has parts or not? How exactly would that relate to 'his' intricacy?

God is not simple.

What?

How can that be considered feasible? I thought we both agreed that God cannot be simple?? Who is arguing otherwise?

Again, you're attempting to develop a system of laws and statements that apply to life and existence as a whole, and how is that going to work when not much is understood about either...how can one decide what applies to everything without experiencing and being able to take into consideration everything known to be existent? Do you see what I'm getting at?

How so? Why is it that the nature of God's existence must be explained? God is often misunderstood and we can't even agree on the origin of our own existence so why attempt to understand and argue something that we will most likely never understand?

I'm referring to the 'God of Abraham', In the Bible it mentions God only using things to represent 'himself' such as the burning bush...ya know?

Well like I said "for all we know", my point is who knows? so why argue?

That's deff possible. But like I've been saying how can you even argue that God has an origin...I don't think you completely get my argument, and I doubt I understand yours.

But they can be considered simple when compared to other structures.

And If you're arguing against God your argument assumes God is existent. So if you're attempting to prove such a God wrong you'd have to an explanation for why the mechanisms for which god is made up of and uses can't exists.

If you ask me you're overthinking things, you can't attempt to use simple definition, logic and ontology to explain life and existence itself. how can you gather up simple equations that every single thing we know of existing abides by when there is so much out there we can't even fathom?

Who's to say 'God' is a 'she' or has a gender at all? That's my point...you have to postulate due to a lack of apprehension and conceives.

Where did I say God created itself? I made my point clear in my post and you're attempting to butcher it up in hopes to make me look delusional, which is kinda sad man.

whats ridiculous is how you assume the entire unfathomable space known as the universe abides by the same exact type of laws all throughout every solar system when we as humans are unclear on how our own solar system works and haven't even ventured out to other planets of space. Obviously there are laws of physics but they're only laws we all agree happen in our surroundings. And that doesn't necessarily mean they are truth, and are often proved to be not exact and then are molded to apply more to what we understand. And what we do agree on 'understanding' is constantly changing

who implied that?

 

Why do you speak of "god" as if you're sure one exists? Why is it that your simple assumptions of god being immortal and omniscient apply to it?

 

Trying to put the infinite into a box huh gentlemen? "God is complex! No, God could be nothing because we can't explain it!"

What is all this "God is this" talk? Didn't the God of Abraham say no graven images??? LOL j/k trying to lighten the mood...

An all powerful God is not something, it's everything so that no image except for what you are already seeing could represent the glory of God.

An everchanging masterpiece, not something you can paint a picture of.

If the picture isn't everchanging, and limitless it just doesn't do all-power justice ya know? We are already witnessing this too, why fight about who is more right about what they are seeing? Perhaps we are all split up and have our own opinion on existance?

Maybe we are all right in our own way and don't see it because knowledge is split up between us because of the conservation of energy? I know that God knew all of this would happen though, I guess it just didn't matter at all... All that mattered was this-

 

The laws of physics show why I believe in an All-Powerful God, and a few experiences during my life let me see the power behind what I am seeing- our connection represented as light connected by strings of light. I saw it a total of 3 times on 2 seperate occasions, and have had other experiences of just "knowing" things I have trouble grasping. I know I supress knowledge from this and I know that I am making it all up from this.

I know you are no different either- the only thing that makes us different is the way we view ourselves and the world.

The law of action and reaction and conservation of energy are reasons I believe in the Creator.

I'll make a thread that goes into depth about why I view the expansion of the universe as an illusion, and how entropy shows action is being taken on the energy of the universe or it would be in one phase vibrating at the same speed after an eternity of entropy... The reason a beginning and end behind the origin of the universe are not as logical than eternity as well. Using science and not the Bible.

And to me, eternity and infinity equal God (which irronically cannot equal anything so it's the best represention you can make- God is everything so that no graven image can be formed except for what we are already witnessing), and the part of Him that developed out of all possibility to become all of this, The Creator and his counterpart Lucifer are just clever illusions for the now-conscious energy field to not feel alone and bored as all-power slipped away to the limitation we are experiencing now.

God is not a power above us to me, His power is our own and He exists as us and through us. This is why I say that life is a multi-perspective story told by us, played out through us, and it's purpose- is to be for us God can only do this for Himself (only one all-powerful energy field), that's why we should trust God because it's all for us somehow!

 

Could "god" become a square circle?

 

Yes, it doesn't have to sit inside the boundaries of logic or reason.

It could create a new concept and a new way to see a square circle making it perfect so it would be a square or something like that... A circle triangle might be a little bit more confusing but not impossible if we use all-power and knowledge.

And this is only if God then has to make sense of it.

Paradoxes don't work on irrationality, that's what you are missing.

EDIT- hold up I just figured out how to make a circle triangle... A crooked circle LOL

Next paradox... The perfect circle triangle... Can we manage to do the impossible? I'd imagine so, but others just can't accept that point of view sometimes. It's cool, I'll spend awhile contemplating something impossible I guess, knowing full well it isn't LOL

The perfect circle triangle... A lot harder than a square circle... Hmm... To the think cave!

EDIT2- Perfect circle triangle is any three points on a perfect circle, it's both a triangle and a perfect circle at the same time... Trippy...

 

The fact is, you can use simple contradictions to prove how certain things cant exist....(god).

You cant have an object that is both a perfectly square and perfectly circular at the same time. It doesnt matter how much power you have or what type of being you are, there is no way this can be done.

 

You haven't ever been asked to find the square of a circle?

Or are you saying the square must have 90 degree angles and a circle has no angles?

You are trying to be rational but God doesn't have to be rational, a square circle is possible if the circle is perfect so if you placed 4 points on the circle each side would be exactly equal or square.

Now if the square has to have 90 degree sides it would be a square and not a circle- God can create one or the other or it's both together.

Why would a combination of a square and circle not be a mixture of the two anyways? They are just lines with angles and curves...

A cube sphere would be the same thing, it's both together or it's a straight sided cube and a rounded sphere. A cube can be drawn in a sphere and a square can be drawn in a circle.

The fact is an infinite being can do anything, even the impossible. Trying to make boundaries on infinity only shows you can make boundaries but not understand infinite nature.

 

Because the idea of an omnipotent and omniscient originator of our universe has not been proven wrong, so therefore I consider it a logical judgement.

Because those characteristics are used to describe God by definition. Are you somehow implying that the definition is wrong?

I couldn't disagree any more, If that was the case you or someone would have already done so.

You sound very sure of yourself, like GoodStuff said 'he' does not have to fall in to the boundaries of rationality we abide by

 

Amen to that man!

Ouch... Great post Cannabis!