Let me first start off by saying my post is alot to read..but it's intresting and i will make you think alot.The reason im writing this is to get other people's opinions and to find someone who can help with some of my flaws when it comes to my beliefs. Also,hearing other people's opinions/beliefs may change mine too.Who knows? Lets use our heads here okay? I dont want to read posts that say stuff like "fuck God.none of that shit,you can keep your insults and shit talk to yourselves. This is my problem with God,Heaven and Hell.Im looking for opinions on these three subjects and I'm looking for advice/help with the things i haven't figured out yet.Lets discuss and share our opinions on these three subjects.Also Id like to read some other people's beliefs that they to have found contradictions in but still have a firm belief and are trying to piece things together,as am I. Lets start off with God.My belief in God and the things i haven't yet come to understand.I believe in God,I believe He is the creator and is all powerful..but I also believe that there are very few things He cant do.Things that are just impossible.This may contradict my statement on Him being "all powerful" but just hear me out on this. In the "From Christian to agnostic" thread there was a post(s) i noticed.An argument about if God is all powerful and can do anything,than He would be able to exist and not exist at the same time and that if He cant do that then He isn't all powerful and therefore not omnipotent. First of all part of omnipotent's definition is "can do anything thats possible.Yes,i did get this fact/statement from wikipedia.Under stand that im not just basing everything on the info in wikipedia,i just do alot of my research on wikipedia because it provides alot of accurate and helpful information.The same goes for Erowid. I disagree with this statement because doing that is just irrational and no way possible.Even if God cant do it,that doesn't mean He isn't omnipotent because like i said before,being existent and non-existent at the same time is just an irrational concept that is nonsensical and impossible.Do you get what I'm saying?This also is a problem for me because the theory of how God was always there seems just as impossible and nonsensical,yet i stick to my belief in God because religion is based on faith. My belief in God is this.He is omnipotent because He can do anything thats possible to do.He is omnipresent not because he is everywhere at once/watching us all at the same time but because we came from Him.He was the creator of our souls,therefore my belief is that a part of Him is inside of us all and that means(in my logic and opinion) he has the ability to automatically know everything about everyone of us.We all have a connection with God,we all came from God.This is why my view on omnipresence is different from many others.Thats because i went to a mainstream Christian school and I found some teachings wrong and/or contradicting.Also,many of the teachers were harsh which i didnt like.I went to a mainstream Christian church and my opinion on the good ones is they have the right idea but are still more confused than they realise or want to admit. To sum up that portion of this post,I believe God is all powerful,is connected with each and everyone of us(even none believers) and therefore knows everything we do and think and so much more than that. I am also confused/still debating about what Jesus was.I know He was my savior,and i accept Him as my savior but if he truly was just God in human form he would have known the answer to the question that prophet(forgot which one) asked,which was,in my own words,"when will the end come?".Jesus leaving the reply that basically meant He Himself did not/doesnt know.But thats already ben talked about,so lets move on down to Hell. Hell.The most nightmarish,most terrifying and painful place you could ever go to.A place of pure suffering and torment.Torment thats worse than any form that we humans could generate.Let me start of by telling you what I believe Hell is like.I believe Hell is somewhat different for each person.I'm not exactly sure why I believe this but I do.I believe Hell is the same according to the Bible for everyone but different too according to everyone's personality.What I'm trying to say is,I believe Hell is Bibically the same for everyone and then for each person something else is added.I believe each person/soul that goes to Hell faces their worst,deepest,most terrifying fears.No,now that ive written that,i know why I believe this.The Bible pretty much states that Hell is the worst place that exists,so therefore i think everyone's worst fears are thrown in there too..because when your in Hell,I certaintly don't believe you'll go through just one form of torment for the rest of time,oh no.It's not that simple.Many things will happen to you.This,at least according to me,is very obvious tho. Now let me get on the subject of my problem with Hell.I bet many of you Christians and other people who believe in Hell have went through this in their head.Hell seems very harsh.To me,Hell should only be a place for people who are horrible,wicked,wretched people..but its not.People who are very nice,very fair and you know,all around just good people,end up in Hell because either they didn't accept Jesus as their savior,or they didn't believe in God,or whatever.It seems unfair,doesn't it? It brings me to this conclusion that helps me understand/satisfies me enough on what happens to the innocent and the overall good people who don't deserve eternal damnation. This may sound stupid but I think(not i know),i think some of those in Hell whom were good people,whom were giving and loving people eventually get their chance to leave Hell and Ascend into Heaven to be with God and the angels or are able to just one day leave Hell and enter eternal sleep/eternal rest and relief. I know this sounds like purgatory but its not.Its similar but not what I'm talking about.I don't believe in purgatory,I believe in Gods mercy and fairness.This also helps me understand God's love for everyone much more. To me,Hell is a place where the unfaithful/nonbelievers/false believers gut of those people,the ones who did good deeds during their lifetimes and weren't selfish and never/never would intentionally hurt someone(unless it was needed.example:guy hits girl,he goes and hits the guy who hit the girl.I fucking would too and stuff like that you know) only suffer in Hell for a certain amount of time.This also helps me understand God's forgiveness a little more too.I believe that when those people suffer in Hell and God decides their time is up they go to one of two places.When in Hell,if they produce a faith in God and Jesus as the savior of man and the person comes to realise everything,than i believe God lifts that person from Hell and takes them to Heaven. The other place they go to is just an eternal sleep.An eternal rest.I believe this happens when the person who is suffering in(a good person like i was talking about) Hell doesn't come to realise God,or maybe does but doesn't come to relise Jesus is the savior,or they just don't get it right,then God finally end's their pain(This also makes me understand God's mercy a little more too) by finally letting them rest in peace.Free from all worries,from all emotions,from all pain.Just an eternal sleep.There was also oneother place i was thinking God may send you,after your time in Hell is up(if your not eternally damned of course) to the place you've been longing for.In other words,your own paradise.This concept kinda contradicts my beliefs tho.Heaven is supposed to be paradise.So maybe they are sent to their own version of paradise.If this were true,I think the only ones who would go to their own paradises are the people/souls in Hell whom were most giving,selfless,honest and all that good stuff. In conclusion,My belief on Hell summed up would be this.A place were the religiously wrong go.Permanent for those who are evil and deserve it,temporary for those who were good people but just never got on the right track.Eternal sleep for the people who were good people during their lifetimes and one's personal paradise for those in Hell whom were especially good people. Lets move on to the last subject.Heaven. Heaven is where those who have right beliefs go.I believe those who beliefs are close enough to the point where they accept Jesus as their savior and Believe in God go to heaven.Heaven is for those who deserve it,belief wise.I dont really know how to explain Heaven because i never gave much thought into what Heaven will be like.I do know/believe this much about Heaven.That we will worship God.We will be able to see our friends and loved ones who made it their.We will be free from sin and we will finally have recieved true happiness and comfort that will always be there.We will be able to eat whatever foods we want.We will be able to fly and experience phenomenon beyond our imagination.We will be engulfed in a beautiful,sinless "land".A place where nothing but happiness and contentment exists.We will praise God and Jesus and be free to do anything that isnt sinful.Thats what i think Heaven will be like.I think the way Heaven will look is going to be so beautiful that it'll be like a acid trip. Thats it for Heaven.Im still trying to figure out how i think it will exactly be. Now,lets hear your opinions on what ive written and lets here your beliefs.Maybe you can help me out with some things.Im leaving to the store for now be will comeback and check the replies,while im gone feel free to reply.Lets not bash eachother either,let us share beliefs not argue. Peace for now.
i know many threads like this have been posted but i wanted make my own based on what i think to get your guy's and gal's opinions.itd be nice if a few of left some comments or suggestions or opinions on what you think is wrong and what you think is right in my theories. so yeah,thatd be real cool if i got some replies.if not..o well i guess.
I'll Lay this out simply: God is omnipotent and omniprescient--Thusly he feels nothing. Hell is an idea conceived by men, described by men, told by men, and is nothing but a folklore. Heaven is a nice idea but it's existence is yet to be proven.
god: is not some object to be worshiped or to be gained. its more of an understanding of yourself and your relationships to others. jesus: i dont like the bible. although i think what jesus is saying is fundamental in understanding oneself and ones love. heaven and hell: concepts to keep the masses in line. ideas that appeal to egomaniacs who dont want to die. this is the base of understanding heaven and hell, there are other ideas to play with but this is the most important.
I thought I would explain my thoughts on the subjects of God, Heaven, and Hell. First I will start with a basic overview of my beliefs. Heaven and Hell exist in what would commonly be called parallel dimensions, which are just levels of human existence with this life being somewhere in the middle. I've based this theory off of the fact science has theorized, on paper, that time travel is possible. Look it up. Here is a good place to start, http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/time/ Basically time travel is possible because of a theoretical object called, guess what? Wormholes, that's right. So what does this have to do with parallel dimensions? Well, wormholes are what make time displacement possible, and in theory, stepping into a wormhole allows you to exist in both places at the same time. Omnipresent? Existence in two places at the same time would imply the existence of parallel dimensions. This theory combines with my theory on the subconscious being the house of the soul, and when you experience certain... out of body experiences, your subconscious or soul, is in essence, leaking into your conscious being. Your soul was part of God, and if God is omnipresent, then your soul is too. Your soul exists in all dimensions, or plains, of existance. We are just not consciously aware of it. Our soul exists in all dimensions at the same time, but it is unfocused. When you die in this world, or possibly other levels of existance, your soul will focus and only exist in Heaven or Hell, depending on the life you consciously lived. Hell, in my opinion, is most likely a state of complete absence of God. That truly is the most unimaginable thing, because we all live in some presence of God, even if people think we don't. Imagine a place where there are no comforting or happy thoughts. Heaven is, in all likelihood, the closest existence in relation to God. Thats all I am going to mention here. If I tried to explain my entire belief system, you would end up reading a book, cause I could really write that much on this subject, but if you are curious, I will gladly answer any questions on my belief system, since I am confident in my faith, which is how all people should be.
LilWyte: Everyone has questions. We all have the ability to sit and ponder answers to the questions, and as a whole, people tend to gravitate towards answers and explanations that seem logical, reasonable, and plausible to them. If it "sounds right, I'll go with it". As a result people begin to say things like; "I believe God is...", "I think Jesus was...", "I feel that God will do such and such...". In fact, what these people are expressing is an opinion that is conceived in their own minds and fits their views of how "THEY" would behave if they were god. In contrast, God has revealed exactly who He is in the Bible. He has revealed His plan for mankind, how that is to be carried out, and what the future holds. There's no reason to add to that or take away from what is written, unless one chooses to reject parts or all of Scripture. Now, there are certainly churches, denominations, and fellowships of organized religion who practice a "form" of Christianity but are in fact wolves among the sheep. The Bible warns of this extensively. Which is why we, as followers of Jesus Christ, are to rely upon the Word, the Holy Spirit for teaching and guidance, and upon our utter dependence and faith upon the One who is greater in us, than is in the world. In other words? You would be right not to follow a church, a pastor, a set of creeds or oaths. Don't follow a denomination or a doctrine, but rather immerse yourself in the Word, in prayer, and in following Jesus as He builds a personal relationship with you.
Or better yet (OP) learn about how these things came to be understood the way they are today. If you want to really understand the rationality behind the concepts your talking about you should really do some reading and learn about how these ideas came to exist and be believed by so many people. Sure faith is a great virtue, but as Dante would say you can't get into heaven on faith alone. It requires all the virtues of classical christian philosophy, those include cardinal virtues of courage, temperance, justice, wisdom (prudence), as well as theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity. I know I'm just spouting all these terms all over the place, but if anything the wolves in christianity are the ones who advocate going forward blind. What this guy is talking about can be good for some, but honestly you need to find your own way. If your on here sharing your beliefs and hoping to learn more you need to do just that. I'm may not be a christian, but I sure feel like I've forced to think like one for the last year, and it's giving me a deep appreciation of the concepts and principles that shape the christian faith in many ways its really a very beautiful depiction of a very complex system of thought and understanding of reality. Religion may be the opium of the masses, but in attempts at mass appeal it can only really influence the uneducated. However, it does it's best to do so because you can't teach the complex details behind the doctrines to the masses. If you want understand you have to do so on your own. Christianity in its infincy as a organized religion became fused with neo-platonism, which was used as the basis to explain the concept of god and the soul. I reccomend really to pursue some sort of higher education in classical philosophy to help you really understand these ideas. It's often very refreshing to find intellectual people who don't care what you believe, but want to share with you this really cool way of looking at the world. If you want to do it on your own goodluck kind of hard, because the philosophy is dense and the concepts elborate, but I read works by Plato, Aristotle, Plotinus, Augustine, Boethuis, Thomas Aquinas, and Dante. These guys were all brilliant and had a huge impact on the development of western thought.
BINGO! at least for me, thats what im with too. and in fact hell is simply the absence of god. but thats what it means, doesnt mean there is a hell. which i do believe but not much like the christian sense of heaven and hell, because i also believe in reincarnation. why do you suppose we are not consiuosly aware of it? what would be the point of us being human if we are in essence, god? check out some kabbalah teachings which talk about how the protoplasmic duplicate of this dimension works, and how the soul is almost recycled into a cycle. its extremely complex. i believe that the anunaki (who were not necessarily physical) but interdimensional, enslaved the original (also interdimensional) beings of this planet, and actually created gravity to enforce a dimensional prison, along with creating the human form to trap the inhabitants of the planet here and enslave them. now if an interdimenional being is just that, INTERdimenional, laws of time do not apply and i believe that darwins theory would be correct if there was no outside manipulation, but they were just a byproduct of what really happened. based on that, our physical forms dont matter, seeing how our soul is the true life that is eternal. so we should be trying to break the dimensional prison, rather than becoming one with it....outer body experiences anyone? if we could exit the body consiously and be interdimensional and live in an astral plane of existance i believe thats what would be more real, and this life is a matrix type deal.
Well, I suppose a good microscopic metaphor for wormholes would be the string/thread/line that connects a superposition (meaning one object being in two positions at once, and relative to one another).
Okay I didn't actually read your post. But I've got a few questions about heaven and hell. 1 - how can the same heaven exist for every person? Everyone has different ideas about the perfect world, so how can one world accomodate everyone's perfect ideals? God would have to change everybody's fundamental personality to accomodate everybody into heaven, and whatever you say, that's not right. I don't want my personality changed just so I can conform into heaven. 2 - what if a baby dies, say the baby is two years old. Obviously he/she doesn't believe or disbelieve in god. How can it go to heaven, if it doesn't believe in god? How can it go to hell if it doesn't NOT believe in god, and hasn't sinned?
Excellent questions. 1) The excellency and wonder of heaven is beyond our comprehension. Because God created us, He knows precisely the type of home and environment that will exceed the satisfaction of everyone that will be there. 2) The Bible teaches us very clearly that God is loving, merciful, kind, generous and filled with grace. There have been and will be many humans who are born without the capacity to comprehend such things as we're discussing (like the mentally handicapped). This would include babies and small children as well who die before reaching a level of maturity that supports faith. Therefore, because of God's great love and mercy, I am convinced that these little ones will be with Him eternally.
I was 90% sure that you would give those particular answers to my questions, as I've heard them countless times before. And I personally don't think that being 'beyond our comprehension' could possibly constitute a reasonable answer - it just says that we can't know, which is extremely convenient for theists. And anyway, I still disagree that there could be a place where everybody's satisfaction will be exceeded without changing the personality of everybody. There is just too much diversity in the human race for that to be possible, unless that diversity is weakened, which means god would have to change people. In my view, anyway. The bible teaches us that god is loving, merciful, kind, generous and filled with grace, eh? So, why then does he advise men to sell their daughters off into slavery? Why does he order people to stone gays to death? Why does he order people to massacre entire villages of innocent men women and children? That is the complete opposite of a loving and merciful being.
God is loving, merciful, kind, generous, and filled with grace, yet he writes a book that says we should kill homosexuals I wanna meet this man, he sounds like such a philanthropist.