I tried reading it, because I got ripped on for being an 'elf fag' by people who are fans of Martin. It's not bad stuff, just I think it lacks a lot of the depth of Tolkien The characters are not so well set up, its as if Martin is more concerned with tying in a great many plot lines than fully fleshing out the main ones. Now I've only read most of the 1st book, but it didn't hold me enough to continue. It is, to me, what it is. A less impressive, less imaginative, cheap-thrill version of Tolkien. And yes, in a lot of ways, a ripoff. I remember opening the book to find the map, and the first couple pages that sounded very much like Tolkien. I was like 'dude, ripoff' But I'm sure most of you guys don't want to hear that stuff, and I'm in the wrong place to have much objective comparison between the two. I dunno the tv series at all, don't have HBO If you like it, you like it, and that's fine with me. Just don't sit there and say it's 'better than Tolkien', which was what I took exception to in the original post, and still do. Tolkien is nearly unrivaled as a storyteller and linguist in all modern history, and I'll defend his honour every time
If you're expecting A Song of Ice and Fire to be just like Lord of the Rings, you're definitely in the wrong mindset to be reading it. Also, the series really takes off after A Game of Thrones.
^ wasn't expecting that, just gave it a try because I'd heard so much about it. And of course, because I got hated on by its fans. I don't wish other things to be like Tolkien, I wish them to be their own entities. Just givin my 2 cents folks, I am a bit of a Tolkien snob at least it's better than a lot of the other drivel that's passed off as literature these days...just not something that impressed me
I love both series. However, I can't say one is better than the other. They both are incredibly epic series.
New trailer: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwaF0D8LrzQ]Game of Thrones Season 2 Trailer: "Price for our sins" - YouTube[/ame]
so good I'm obsessed now. get baked, take a nice glass of wine and your right fucking there in Westeros. ahh whores yummm.
There are so many things that happen in this series that you wish didn't happen, because you get attached to characters. But that's what makes this a true epic tragedy. Such as a certain huge event in A Storm of Swords that causes huge waves in the flow of the war.
It's funny that you'll sit there saying all these things about the universe Martin has created and the characters that populate it, criticizing it as a Tolkien rip off with one dimensional characters, when you freely admit to having read only some of the first book. Now I'm not about to sit here and say one is better than the other, just simply that I find Tolkien to be vastly overrated and that I think Martin's approach to the fantasy genre is completely different. The entire reason that Martin's series of books is so masterful is that it REDEFINES the conventions and style of the fantasy genre (those ones that Tolkien created with Lord of the Rings). So how can you say Martin is ripping Tolkien off when his viciously simple yet complex prose and desire to ground his universe in some measure of reality is on a completely different spectrum than Tolkien? It's obvious why, because you're a Tolkien fanboy who's opening their mouth and trying to criticize a series of books that you haven't even read.
See, I think for some fans of Tolkien, they are always comparing everything back to Tolkien. He helped found the fantasy genre and is the granddaddy of it all. But not every piece of fantasy is a rip off of Tolkien, and neither should ever piece of fantasy be compared to Tolkien. I love George RR Martin, but I still like Tolkien more. Partly for the fact that he helped found the modern fantasy genre, partly because I was raised on The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, and the Silmarillion. Tolkien is a genius.... but that doesn't in any way take away from the love and affection I have for George RR martin and a song of ice and fire series. What I will argue about though, is that you only read part of the first book and are judging the whole series. I dont think thats fair. Just like if some one read part of The fellowship of the ring and then talked shit about the whole lord of the ring series. I will also argue about the fact that you said that George RR Martin's characters aren't flushed out and fully set up. I actually think Martin does a better job of making his characters well rounded than Tolkien. In tolkiens universe there are very few characters who aren't striclty black/white, good/evil. There aren't many characters who are in the middle. A song of fire and ice is full of well developed characters. You get to know their inner thoughts, their desires, their fears, their strengths and faults. A good character may think horrible things, and an evil character might have reservations and doubts and guilt about their actions. One of the problems I have with Tolkien, if I have a problem that is, is that alot of his characters are very flat/non emotional. None of the characters talk/think about being horny, or are even portrayed in anyway as adult sexual beings. Most dont show/express anger, doubt, greed, and real emotions. George RR Martin is a lot more gritty and "realistic", his characters are more realistic and easier to identify with. In my opinion.
Very good point about Martin's gritty matter of fact style of writing which is a complete opposite of Tolkien's very flowery style. And the complexity of Martin's characters is the EXACT opposite of Tolkien's archetypal (and boring) characters. One of the best examples of the complexity within Martin's characters is Jamie Lannister who, from the first book, starts out as your run of the mill evil counterpoint to Ned Stark (the way those two play off each other is amazing) But as the books go along and Jamie becomes a main character, Martin shows the motivations and method behind Jamie's arrogance and he really humanizes the character. To the point where you start to sympathize with the man and understand why he does what he does (which is saying a lot for a man who tries to kill a little kid and fucks his own sister) You can argue all day whether Tolkien or Martin is better, that's juts opinion. But to say that Game of Thrones is a rip off of Lord of the Rings is so monumentally moronic and off base.
Go ahead. Many people have done so. Though, I will say that the books make it a much more epic experience.
Yea deffinetly. I was most of the way into watching the first series before I started reading the books. The show just got me more and more interested in reading the books, I wanted to learn a lot more about back stories, mythology, the world it's set in. And even with out reading the books, the series is still awesome to watch.
The North Remembers Such a cool fucking title... So does season 2 really premiere today or is HBO april foolin all of us?
Now that an actually decent show is airing on sundays every sunday for the next like 2 months is going to drag by at a snails pace. I hope they do what they did last year, which was releasing one of the episodes a week early on HBOgo. But then again that was to promote the site so I dont really have high hopes they will do that this season.
I'm so glad this is back on. I'm missing out on my top tier entertainment since Breaking Bad and Boardwalk Empire had their season finales. Finally have something to watch again.
Episode was good. Not the best. Greywind was fucking huge, I'm really digging TV Robb more than the book version.