Followers of Organized Religion...

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by CosmicSerpent, Mar 5, 2008.

  1. What I'm about to talk about is the basis of my doubt, the reason I don't have faith, and why I think so many people are misled. This isn't supposed to be an argument about whether or not God exists, but rather an open-ended discussion about organized religion. I'm basically agnostic, so I'm not claiming to know some truth about God or anything. I'm just trying to get an idea about why people believe the things they do.

    For those of you who would consider yourselves a member of a certain church, denomination, or religious institution, why did you choose the one you did? What exactly made you take a look at your specific establishment and decide that it was superior and correct out of the thousands of other ones?

    This is why I could never be a part of an organized religion. I don't understand how someone can have faith in one specific sect, but choose not to have faith in the numerous others that they've never even heard of.

    Here's another example... how can anyone say that The Bible is absolutely true and the word of God when thousands of other texts make the exact same claims? Like the Quran, the Torah, the Book of Mormon, the Apocrypha, the Bhagavad Gita, the Vedas, the Guru Granth Sahib, etc. Wouldn't you have to read all of these before you decide that only one is actually correct? They all contradict each other and claim to be the true word of God in some form or another, so what makes one better than the rest?

    "Because it says so" is not a good enough answer for me. I could write a story, publish it under the title "The Word of God".... so why should people not have faith that it's actually the truth? Why does faith have to be selective? Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose?

    And even if you do decide that one religious text is absolutely correct, how do you choose which interpretation to follow? In Christianity, just about every denomination has their differences in understanding exactly what the Bible says. Of course they all believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God and messiah, etc.... but past that, there are some huge fundamental differences. Which one is correct?

    Let's take a look at the Abrahamic religions only, since nearly everyone on this message board lives in Europe or North America and has been exposed to at least one of these religions during their life:

    Christianity: Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, African Initiated Church, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Anglican, Episcopal, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Adventist, Apostolic, Mennonite, Quakers

    Islam: Sunni, Shia, Ahmadi, Druze

    Judaism: Conservative, Reform, Orthodox, Hasidic, Reconstructionist, Secular

    That's just a handful of the broadly categorized denominations within the West's three most prominent major religions. If I really wanted to get detailed, the list could be expanded to several pages, but I think you get the idea. It just doesn't make sense to me that someone can choose one of these sects early on in their life, and stick with it until they die without even giving the others a chance.

    If this is what faith means, then I don't want anything to do with it. Seems like a pretty limited and ignorant way of thinking.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. western religions are pretty retarded

    even though i dont know anything about eastern religions it just seems that they would get it right
     
  3. Your thoughts match mine exactly! ive never ever been able to simplify mine though, and your right there are so many which is right and true? and somebody that is brought into as an infant to believe a certain religion without first giving them a choice sorta brain washes them from the very begining. ive looked at many different religions and i always come to the same conclusion why? i wonder why god would set it this way and why should i follow this when another say something slightly different. I do come to belive that humanity is slowly lossing the larger picture i belive over centuries we focus on certain small aspects that we loose the larger picture. and i also keep in mind that the victor of every conflict writes the history. please feel free to pm me more information on your thoughts im very intrested.
     
  4. Most people are born into a religion so they never really question it's validity.
    To go against their own (organized) religion would be defying their heritage, so they dont think about it.
     
  5. Considering the long strides of scientific advancements and the plans we have in the near future (ie mission to mars, civilian space travel), not to mention the new telescopes that will replace hubble and give us an even greater insight as to whats going on out there, I wonder how many more generations it will take before people look at organized religion as "weird".

    I'm gonna say 3 o 4.
     
  6. I don't agree with how you arrive at your hypothesis, however I agree that organized religion is on it's way out, and I couldn't be happier. (I believe organized religion will be replaced by true understanding of spirituality)
     





  7. So you dont equate scientific advancements and understanding with a decline in organized religion?

    I think people move away from organized religion because they begin to actually "think" for themselves, rather than believing what they've been told. As some have already said, most people belong to their religion because they were born into it...."my parents are christian so im a christian" type thing.

    What makes people think more about their own existence than something like the "deep field" shot from hubble, where thousands of galaxies are on display? Its those kinds of scientific achievements that are allowing individuals to think differently about who we are and what we're a part of.

    Religion will keep taking hits for every major discovery made in space. Imagine what will happen to the religious community when we find life somewhere out there....or better yet, it finds us. People will begin to think differently about everything, and thats a killer to religion....thinking.

    Whats appealing about science is that theories are presented about our own exitence, not facts. Religion presents things as fact....you either accept them or you dont.

    As science continues to move forward, organized religion will struggle to keep up and eventually lose out to "free-thinking" individuals.

    Once you move past the restrictions of organized religion, you can really start down the path to gaining a better understanding of everything. Science helps with this understanding because it provides us with certain information that is crucial to the human understanding of the Universe....such as the deep field shot.

    When we see things like that, our minds begin to go wild (if we allow it to soak in). The wheels start turning, and once the machine gets moving...you're on your way.

    I think the key is to use a lot of what is presented through science (not religion) and apply that to your own understanding of existence.

    I have moved from being a christian, to an atheist, to an agnostic, and back in to this place I am now....where I really cant describe it in any way. All I can say is that I believe all are one, and I believe consciousness and existence are both one in the same as well. Without going into too much detail, this thought process has turned me on to the idea of "god" once again....although not in the traditional sense that many people believe.

    If there is an eternal consciousness, you could call that god. However, if all things are one thing....everything is god in different forms. Seperation is an illusion...


    Got off track there a little bit but the point is that science really played a HUGE role in taking me full circle in my beliefs. It got me away from organized religion and brought me closer to a personal understanding that I never would have achieved otherwise.
     
  8. I was born into a catholic family. It made no sense to me, and I became atheist, as a reaction to that hypocrisy.
    Now I am existentialist and an anarchist, as it most closely matches my philosophy.
    I will never belong to any organised religion, b/c i believe it's all bunk, made up by humans, to control the general populace.
    Quite frankly, I think we couldn't handle the truth if it were handed to us outright. Lies and fantasy are waaaaay more cool, huh?:rolleyes:
     
  9. I am the same, I feel that fear is what keeps people looking to religion, the fear of god, the fear of hell, the fear dying and going nowhere.

    But I hope people will start to look to science as I said yesterday.
     
  10. I pretty much agree with you and your view of organized religion. And I agree that with greater advancements in science more people will wane from organized religion. That being said I do consider myself a very spiritual person. I have studied many of the religions in the world and in my opinion it is really striking how similar they are. They teach different doctrines and have different opinions on god or gods but they are all quite similar. Pretty much all of them want people to be good basically and many of their rules are designed to help people do that. My favorite religions are usually the eastern religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism, among others. I think those religions are closer to the ultimate spiritual truth than many western religions but I still think western religions contain important truths as well. For example in the bible when jesus says to "Love your neighbor as you love yourself" and just the stories in the bible (mainly the new testament) about how to treat one another makes me really appreciate Jesus and what he was trying to say. Unfortunately 2000 years after his existence and so many people, especially his followers do not follow his teachings or even come close in some cases.

    That is why I disagree with organized religion. It isn't that I don't believe in God it is that I think religion corrupts God. Churches have had way too much control over people and still do to an extent. I just don't see why there needs to be that mediator between me and the Universe/God/the force/Allah/Tao or whatever. In fact, in the bible Jesus even denounces organized religion IMO when he says not to dress flashy or show off the fact that you are praying, but that when you pray you should go to your room and close the door and pray in private. It is that personal relationship with the ultimate force or the creator that I think many religions, specifically christianity, try to destroy.

    In Hinduism there is a saying that all religions are true and that they are just different ways of worshipping God or understanding the universe, but that the ultimately point towards the same thing. Like many rivers flowing into one ocean.

    Also when you look into Quantum Physics there is a lot of stuff that could be regarded as spiritual.

    Have you ever seen the movie "What the Bleep do we know?"

    It is an excellent movie and the part on spirituality and religion is mind-blowing.
     
  11. Religion... comprises a system of wishful illusions together with a disavowal of reality, such as we find in an isolated form nowhere else but in amentia, in a state of blissful hallucinatory confusion.

    -Sigmund Freud

    As science advances, religions are slowly disproved.
     
  12. You are smater than most people. Many souls need to feel they are put here with with some purpose, religion is an easy fix for them.

    Also, religion does much to benefit society, dare I say it is the glue that keeps us civilized.

    Please Don't Fu** With It!
     
  13. I like how the only people who have responded to CosmicSerpent are non-religious... :)

    Not that I'm here to change the trend... and by the way, nice questions!
     
  14. there's no retarded or stupid religion. a religion is a base, in which you can draw faith off of. it helps you keep your head up and make it through the day, which is something alot of people need nowadays. religion changes with time, and there's hundreds of different believes all fitted to it's followers. the same way smoking relieves me may be the same way it reliefs a old lady who's a little too stressed out. take it from someone who has'nt had much inspiration or 'hope' in life. religion calms you, it let's you know that there's something better in life, something to look forward to in the end. to say religion is stupid and useless is ignorant. "why believe in a all seeing being who lives in the sky???" why not? if that's what it takes to keep hope in your life and make it one more day then hey im willing to believe in a one eyed cat who eats marshmellows and purple worms. but im not saying that it does'nt get ridiculous, religion is fine, but don't shove it down our throats. if you have your own beliefs keep it to yourself unless someone else is interested. but faith and a motive is why i think religion was constructed, and so big in our world.. :D
     
  15. im not religious by the way =] just open minded n intellegent
     
  16. I personally feel like fear is also what causes people to criticize religions and logically deconstruct religious texts. :) Maybe an "Enlightened" person feels it not worth his time to do these things... after all, perhaps one believes that religion is largely about faith (which one may have or not... it's pretty simple) but that shouldn't be seen as a threat to science or logic (the great bearers of Truth that they are).
     
  17. Having knowledge of organized religion gives you your baseline for evaluting the 'norm'. These of course are filtered by your family and friends and exposure to drug sex and violence.

    This mass baseline establishing factor of religion allows the ability to control a population,

    But these days religion has been replaced by the TV, and modern media which give much more direct control over what people consider the norm. However, the real power of these modern mediums is to invoke the previously established norms that are ingrained into them by religous ideologies.

    It's interesting sometimes how so many of our modern cultures festivals, as well as institutions are enforced by religious ideology.

    So to that end we are all followers of organized religion, to one level or another.
     

  18. That does not make us active practitioners. And I'd dare to say that you can passively follow a religion.
     
  19. to qoute dogma-
    "it doesnt matter what you have faith in, as long as you have faith"
    "the problem with a belief structure is it takes a war to change it, an idea is great because an idea can be changed whenever one wills to change it"

    i think religons have great aspects, all of them, western and eastern. i was raised in a christan family. but began questioning my faith as a young child, i know have studdied tons of religons from mainstream chirsitianity and rastafarism, to the far east of confusim, buddahism and kabbalah and everything inbetween. i love ideas from everything i have read, just as i disliked some ideas from each religon. i know have my own homemade "religon" if you will with concepts of my own as well as concepts taken from many varrying religons. it is importent to reconize and understand religons as good and bad, wars can be fought overthem, and countries unified.
     

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