Flat TAX: VIBABLE? pros/cons - Discuss

Discussion in 'Politics' started by cball, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. #1 cball, Aug 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2012
    FLAT as in one rate, tax income only;
    no loopholes
    no exceptions
    no deductions
    no exclusions
    no ability to evade (can't live on teh corp dime, as the monies expended for your living cost are INCOME and taxable as such, so living in the corp mansion could cost ya, using that corp jet, could cost ya...live within you own incomes range and you will be happy..and law abiding)

    profits of any kind are income, or dispersed to the shareholders/workers as their income, and taxed

    perks abound from this solid tax revenue vector,
    no corp tax
    no sales tax
    no property tax (profits from property sales is income, and that is taxed)

    No CORP tax...think of all the offshore mfg jobs being rebuilt HERE due to corps relocating to USA soil as HQ for the low taxes on corporations and lack of other taxation.

    This would also mean full disclosure of 'books' and some very stiff penalties for anyone caught cheating. Ideas on this, has to blast the barriers on 'cost of doing business' and the risk/reward factors..ideas?

    Now I can concede there may be some other form of a tax placed on international sales and such, but those would be closer to 'tariffs' and a form of sanction on countries not in 'favor' with US.

    AW sparked this by mentioning it in some other 'weeds' thread earlier, but the thought brought back memories of a work-up we did in my sophomore years economics group (ya, 2, tough economic time for me, had to work a lot, little time for classes).
    We thought an 11%~ rate on a national level would suffice for a sustainable infrastructure and military security (yayayaa, we never thought of a 16 trillion dollar debt as possible...so forgive the low figure).
    Can anyone suggest and show some flat tax rate viability?

    The idea is sound IMHO but things have gone way off the scales of 'fail' for any old school rules to work to correct the existing 'fail' without some serious collateral fallout on the poor (ya, sucks to be me, yep, I'm dirt poor:eek:, seriously, zero net worth, no income, about $100k+ in dept, unable to work, disabled and getting worse) but sacrifices are always required to bring about change. (yep, toss me under the bus if it helps rebuild the US to it's once proud glory):hello:

    come on, discuss, show some graphs, pros/cons...give it a good solid 'think' and see what we can learn about the concept.:wave:
  2. The problem with 'no deductions' is that if a business' profit margin is less then the tax rate, they go out of business or drastically raise their prices. A grocery store would be an example of a business with a low profit margin.
  3. to who would you even pay this flat tax? the IRS is just an agency created to catalogue your wealth so the federal reserve bankers can steal it easier.

    the problem isnt with the tax rates its with the systemic corruption within the ruling body that decides where these taxes go. if our politicians werent such shills our taxes wouldnt need to be so high in the first place because we wouldnt have these unregulated markets and unprovoked wars destroying our economy. bankers wouldnt be able to steal billions of dollars from the public and we wouldnt be sitting here bitching about it today.

    i generally don't post in political discussions because no one ever wants to acknowledge the bigger problem of systemic corruption in nearly every facet of our government and corporate society that lead to the current meltdown state we're in. everyone wants to think that their politician is going to do right by them even when they constantly dont. but the next guy, hes gonna be different. that obama, he seems like a good guy.

    yeah the kinda guy that taxes every pot club in to bankruptcy to make way for big pharma to monopolize the medical marijuana industry. thought he was supposed to legalize? kinda guy who doesnt prosecute anyone from goldman for the 2008 collapse.

    but hey that next guy ell probably do right by you. shit i heard hes not just gonna legalize weed, hes gonna give it out on the streets for free.

  4. I am against an income tax, period. This is just simply, not Constitutional.

    A plan I've often thought about, would be a Constitutional sales tax on anything sold. The sales tax rate would actually be set by each state, according to their needs. This tax would be on anything sold, no exemptions for religion, public services, etc. If you buy something, you pay the sales tax. Then the ONLY money the federal government earns, comes out of each states' income, say a rate of 1% goes to the federal government. Of course, a statist will argue this isn't enough money for the Federal government to use. That's the point, I'm talking Constitutional here, limited government, barely enough money to pay the actual federal employees that are supposed to exist, the three branches, Executive, Legislative, and Judicial. That's it, no other federal job is supposed to exist. Other "government" responsibilities fall under each states jurisdiction, military is, as the Constitution says, state run militias. Other current federal government departments' responsibilities can then be decided upon by the people of each state.

    It's not a very complicated system, if you have a grasp of what the Constitution actually says, but I'm sure there's many parts I have not yet covered.
    Anyways, it's just some random thoughts I've had on the subject, feel free to let me know if you like it or have doubts or whatever. Especially you, OP. :wave:

  5. I agree in a perfect nation there would be no federal income tax.. but for the sake of argument..

    From what I understand about the flat tax, the lower and middle class end up paying more while at the same time there is less overall tax revenue.. Also Herman Cain wanted it..

    We've got a spending problem.. $600+ Billion on defense alone for the next fiscal year.. Just imagine if that money was spent throughout the economy and or for social programs here at home.
  6. I started reading this and liked what you were saying. Then I saw you say that nobody ever wants to discuss the corruption and that's definitely not true here. And then I saw you support Romney and then I realized you clearly don't care about anything you said.
  7. :rolleyes:

    Apparently sarcasm gets lost on you quite easily.

  8. Maybe it's cause I'm high right now but I'm still not seeing the sarcasm besides the fact it makes no sense.

  9. Try reading this part again, he's pointing out the fallacy behind voting for one of the two main candidates...


  10. Yeah that's what I was commenting on before. I just saw it more as the guy was an utter idiot rather than sarcasm. I don't know haha, guessing I'd see the sarcasm if I've seen other posts of his :p
  11. A flat tax is preferable to what we have now, but if it's revenue neutral I wouldn't see it as a step in the right direction. The state must shrink, and to do that it needs to spend less and take in lower revenues. I'd rather keep the current code and just lower taxes than have a flat tax that still gives the state the same or similar amounts of revenue. Ideally the federal government would be funded by a sales tax or tarriff of some kind, but reducing spending is much more important to me than what type of tax system is in place, so I've never been very interested in this topic.
  12. I say fuck the income tax. I am entitled to the fruits of my labors. No one else is(unless I work for them).

    Me and my pops debate this topic. I think the best solution is a value added tax. You just get taxed on what you buy. The more of a luxurious life you want to live, the more taxes you will pay acquiring all the crap. I know this is not perfect but neither is what we got now.

    As long as the corruption in Gov. continues I don't think it really matters how the tax system works.
  13. The income tax is theft period and should be eliminated.
  14. prepare your self for a bunch of text ;D

    no you dont want to discuss the real problem because the real problem is you. its all of us. we've become lazy compliant citizens willing to give up anything in the face of fear for the idea of safety and riches. beyond that the system of corruption is now weeded in to even the poorest sectors of society. we all in some way benefit from the system weather it be from a nice paying job or a government food stamp and anything in between. i benefit in multiple ways i can count off top.

    the problem is people are still too comfortable to take any large aggressive actions. but with the euro collapsing the dollar wont be far behind and everyone will be forced to take a long look at the ugly truth. our economy isnt getting any better. its just being propped up by borrowed chinese money, the plunge protection team and the financial sector using all kinds of crazy high frequency trading algorithms that steal money from markets all around the world. we're like high tech pirates.

    bankers are doing more derivatives trading than ever to help pump up the failing markets in to another bubble and once our markets crash again china isnt going to give us another trillion dollars because our dollar is going to be worthless. after the next crash we're not going to be able to loan our way out were going to have to sell american assets off to the same bankers who manipulated this whole situation in the first place.

    what we're seeing is the takeover of america by the international british based bankers that have been trying to do it for the last 300 years. they've finally made the population compliant and ignorant enough to steal everything.

    some people look at me like an asshole when i say things like that but the same people looked at me like an asshole when i said there was going to be a planned financial collapse and a bunch of high profile failed terrorist attacks back in 05. now we know the bankers knew they were gonna cause a crash and we also know the underwear bombers terrorist cell was infiltrated by a british mi6 agent.

    the government lets the bankers get rich and the under trained dirt warrior terrorists fail in public and then they hype up and use the panic to solidify power. what people dont understand is all large governments would much prefer a fascist or communist system because that means the government ownes everything and they dont have to be elected. that would mean they would go from being owned by the banks to owning the banks overnight. thats the bigger goal of letting the bankers crash the economy. remove the confidence and make everything state owned so the politicians become the super rich aristocrats of this society. the $ theyre getting from the banks now is nothing compared to what theyre really playing for.

    behind the wall street bankers and politicians you have the international bankers. people like the rothschilds and rockefellers. these two families together have a networth of over a trillion dollars. they own the federal reserve and every other world bank. the systemic corruption is so deep and total a complete destruction of the system is necessary. our current model for society is an unsustainable failure.

    and at the end of the day the real problem is the citizens not regulating the government which allows them to be so corrupt and let these bankers run wild in our economy. its our faults. thats the problem no one wants to acknowledge. this is all OUR faults because we gave them absolute power and absolute power corrupts absolutely. everyone needs to take responsibility for this or nothing will ever change.
    bingo. thats why all the guys are the same. ron paul is only allowed to be taken as seriously as he is(which isnt very by most people) to give people like us the feeling that we have a guy too. 'yeah he didnt win, but hey maybe next time'. 'yeah he didnt win that time either but hey, maybe next time..' ron pauls a good guy he just has all the cards stacked against him.

    no youre right i am an idiot ;D
  15. going off topic a bit people....

    sure income tax sucks...but if that is the ONLY tax then it would only effect people that earn a profit/income...

    without some form of tax, no infrastructure unless you have the wealth to create/maintain such (toll roads everywhere? no public school system, no police, no military...no sewers or water to the home)

    So...lets go with the flat tax idea, and figure out what it would be to have a sustainable system (not repair the current fucked up corrupt as hell owned by 1% system we have now...)

    One can include the checks and balances that could keep the government on the straight and narrow road of serving the best interest of We The People...but lets discuss the tax rate...how it would eliminate all other taxation.

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