>>Fish Hydrolysates<< + >>Fulvic Acid<<

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by Sustain, Nov 24, 2011.

  1. Hello grasscity!

    Sustain here wondering about Fish Hydrolysate

    I really abhor purchasing anything contained or containing plastic i.e. plastic bottles full of whatever snake oil the salesman has on hand, however sometimes it is necessary...

    while recognizing the above does anyone know about a dry source of Fish Hydrolysate? All of the sources I find using standard google searches/interweb lookings are all a liquid form contained in a...duh duh duhhhhh plastic bottle.


    Also, I happen to be wondering about Fulvic Acids

    I know that Fulvic Acids are a grey area as far as governmental classifications go, but to the best of anyone's knowledge where can I find Fulvic Acids?

    Also if anyone has any opinions on the best way to apply Fulvic Acids whether it be....

    >pre-mixed into soilmix with ammendments<
    >applied with foliar sprays<
    >applied as an ingredient in an AACT<
    >another way?<

    to reiterate I am curious about a dry powder/granule source of Fish Hydrolysate and a source of Fulvic Acid; both preferably without plastic bottle involvement!

    Thanks for your interest and keep on growing!

  2. Sustain

    The dried fish hydrolysate powder hasn't tested well as far as being a good food for increasing microbe colonies. Pretty dismal results from what I/we were told.

    Making fish hydrolysate is stupid easy. You would need to source ORGANIC fish meal, a lacto culture like EM-1 or SCD Bio Ag and you would have to use either Citric acid or Phosphoric acid (not the better of the 2 in my opinion) to arrest and stop the fermentation process once you hit the correct pH numbers (between 3.2 - 2.8 pH).

    Fulvic Acid - BioAg Ful-Power. California and Oregon do not allow the use of the term 'fulvic acid' but that is what this product is. It's the real deal.



    SCD Bio Ag and BioAg have absolutely nothing to do with each other in any way.
  3. My bad - you could forgo the EM-1 (or SCD Bio Ag) mother culture products and go with Gil Carandang's lacto serum that you can make at home with rice, milk and water and some patience.

  4. Wow sweetness, thanks thats EXACTLY what I've been looking for, only drawback is the pricing ouch! $30 for a quart is pretty up there but hey I guess you have to pay to get quality huh?

    funny you posted this particularly because I actually just strained off some of my rice 'serum' tonight! about a week until I add the milk!

    a further question about this would be, do you think hemp milk would work just as good as cow milk? I usually rotate between soy/almond/rice/hemp milk depending on if anythings on sale and whatnot.

    that being said I don't have any dairy cow type milk so I hope it works with the others? thoughts?

    Thanks for your help LDz!

  5. Sustain

    Hemp milk wouldn't be a substitute unless it contains Lactic acid - I'm as stupid as it comes on the various compounds in hemp or cannabis plants. But it's the Lactic acid you need to get the serum up and running.

    You 'could' use LIVE yogurt which is some strain of lactobacillus bacteria but it would defeat the whole concept of 'indigenous microbes' in Gil's formula.

    You can buy BioAg Ful-Power direct from the BioAg. A gallon is around $65.00 and that price is inclusive, i.e. no S&H charges are added.


  6. I'm really not clear on the contents of Hemp Milk either as far as Lactic acid goes, same for rice, almond, and soy milks.

    I'll have to do some research.

    Also the gallon price is definitely a better price, but still really expensive! I wonder how BioAg makes this Fulvic Acid? I wonder if I can make it myself somehow, I haven't really done much exploring on BioAgs website, but perhaps thats a priority now.

    Thanks again for the support!

  7. Sustain

    It's only expensive until you compare the results with other products claiming to be fulvic acid. It's not even close.

    But consider the pricing from this perspective. According to the folks at BioAg, the best way to apply fulvic acid is in a foliar application @ 1/2 oz. to 1 gallon water.

    So a quart would make 64 gallons of fulvic acid 'tea' that you would apply 1x per week. So 1 quart would definitely go a long way for pretty cheap money.

    Sometimes you really do get what you pay for. Look at General Hydroponics' Black Diamond Humic Blah Blah Blah - aqueous suspension of black sand in water does not constitute 'humic acid extract' by any stretch of the imagination - except their own perhaps.

  8. Making your own? First you need to find a source - 3 or 4 companies pull out of New Mexico but they ain't sayin' exactly where. But then again it is the "Land of Enchancement" so it might make for a nice extended vacation.

    Then again you would need a process to assay material to see if it has what you're looking for. Another source is Pennsylvania - coal fields and such. But one company denies even that so there you go!

    Humic and fulvic acids can be a real mine trap.

  9. hmm, well I see your point its definitely easier and cheaper just to buy it. >.<

    I really doubt i'll be in NM or PA anytime soon!

    and did I catch a geology joke? so rare = 0

  10. #10 LumperDawgz2, Nov 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2011
    During the winter months we get a lot of TV and radio ads for states that have sunshine this time of the year. Earlier this evening I caught an ad from the tourism board in New Mexico with a sign-off of "Land of Enchancement"

    I mind wandered back to a weekend I had to spend in Truth or Consequences, New Mexico (T or C as the locals called it) at the Holiday Inn. My car needed repairs and I couldn't get anything done on a Saturday or Sunday. What a shit hole. The geniuses in this berg renamed their town to this name after a television game show in 1950.

    Good thing that The Young & the Breastless wasn't available to these people. Proof positive that just like in livestock, hunting dogs, etc. line-breeding just doesn't work. You can only breed with your 'kin' for so many generations until things just go weird. 19th and 20th Century European royalty would be another good example.

    "Expand the gene pool" would be my advice.

  11. T or C

    Keep your fulvic acid close, and your family members closer...
  12. "Teaming with Microbes, Revised Edition" , Page 155

    "You can buy fish hydrolysate at some nursuries or make your own by adding papain (aka papaya peptidase) or kiwi (which also contains the appropriate enzymes) to a blend of fish to enzymatically digest the bones."

    That, and then do the ph thingy as stated by LD a couple of posts back to stop the fermentation.

    Just reading and it caught my eye. See, I'm doin' my homework. :)


    ps - right now its way easier for me to buy a little jug of Neptunes.

  13. HFPC Hydrolyzed Fish Powder (5 Lb)

    Thats for a 5 lb sack. They also have bigger sacks.
  14. What is the purpose of using Fulvic acid? I live in Cali, so I was aware of the fact that they can't use that term, anybody no why?
  15. I use two humic acid products from kis compost teas, and both seem high quality.

    Lifted from wiki......Humic acid is a principal component of humic substances, which are the major organic constituents of soil (humus), peat, coal, many upland streams, dystrophic lakes, and ocean water.[1] It is produced by biodegradation of dead organic matter. It is not a single acid; rather, it is a complex mixture of many different acids containing carboxyl and phenolate groups so that the mixture behaves functionally as a dibasic acid or, occasionally, as a tribasic acid. Humic acids can form complexes with ions that are commonly found in the environment creating humic colloids. Humic and fulvic acids (fulvic acids are humic acids of lower molecular weight and higher oxygen content than other humic acids)are commonly used as a soil supplement in agriculture, and less commonly as a human nutritional supplement. As a nutrition supplement, free form (unreacted) fulvic acid is found in a liquid form along with mineral colloids. Fulvic acids are poly-electrolytes and are unique colloids that diffuse easily through membranes whereas all other colloids do not. Fulvic acid supplements consisting of a neutral pH are very weak fulvic compounds and do not deliver the benefits of free form fulvic acid (fulvic acid that remains unreacted with other substances or unbound to minerals) that exhibits a much higher concentration and lower pH[citation needed]. Fulvic acid branded as "ionic" is not free form fulvic acid, more accurately they are fulvic compounds or fulvate salts. According to the International Humic Substances Society all fulvic acids are colloids.
  16. MIW so you use the 85% and the 91%? I think that's roughly the %'s

    weedroid I would assume it could be used to activate fungai in a tea or mixed as an amendment, maybe even in a BIM concoction, but at the very least it would be a fast correction to N deficiency via Foliar feed...

  17. I use the liquid product called LC10 plus 7, and the dry product sm90. I use the LC only a couple times per grow. I use the sm 90 maybe once a week, but very lightly, just enough to stain the water like tea, it works out to 1/4 tsp per 3-4 gallons, so it goes a long ways. The directions call for small amounts frequently and i use it sparenly. No one really needs two humic acids though, either one would be fine......MIW
  18. Hi,
    I bought from Bio-Ag
    Ful-Humix that has both fulvic and humic acids
    but when I foliar applied it the leaves had a strange
    bulging and wrinkled spot that didn't change.
    I thought I had used too strong a dose/too frequent;
    but later read the stomata are too small for the humics.

    Somewhere Wee and LD explained this.
    So am I ok to apply it to the soil as often as weekly?

    Regarding Neptune's fish hydrosylate, how often could I use this?
    It really did green things up fast!
  19. I'm no expert but I saw an old post by an esteemed member that said once a week.
  20. Follow MIW's advice and use humic/fulvics sparingly. Especially with the BioAg dry water-soluble products, a little goes a very long way.

    PPase correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the humic/fulvic product act as nutrient "chelators"(sp?) And will make more nutrients readily available. If used in too high of doses or too often, they can release too much of a good thing, which can, in turn, lock out others.

    This is my take on it and would like to be corrected if I'm wrong.

    IIse eny of several different BioAg products - Ful-Power or TM-7, mixed with water at the rate of a quarter teaspoon per gallon of water. Its very concentrated!

    I mix several to 5 gallons, allow to settle for a bit, and then fill my sprayer from the top of the bucket. There's always a little bit that won't dissolve and will clog your sprayer. The rest goes to a root drench. I actually only use it every 2 to 3 weeks or if the mood hits me.


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