Hi, This is my first post, and its a long one. I've been doing a lot of reading on the forum and sourcing ingredients around town in preparation for my first attempt to make my own soil for a 100% organic mostly water grow. I'm not going water only, I just want to spend as little time and money as possible in hydro stores(was the only place I found Pro-teKt unfortunately). I've grown a little in modified FFOF and in coco using bottled nutes, but I'm ready for something better. I've put together an LD inspired soil mix I'd appreciate some input on. How are my ratios and product selection? This is my first time so I could be missing an obvious mistake. I've been able to find most of the products and ingredients I was looking for. EB Stone (EB) and Down to Earth(DTE) products are available at the nursery, some seed and meal at a feed store, and specialty stuff at the hydro store if absolutely necessary. So I can probably find anything you think I'm missing or should substitute. So here goes: Soil Base 2.3(ish) cf. Botanicare Coco Brick (cheapest coco I've found) 1.5 cf bag of loose coco or coco based medium with EWC perlite etc. 1 cf dry EWC (Several different bags available) .5 cf fresh local EWC .5 not yet sourced humus. (Don't know what the best local option is.) 2 cf perlite/pumice/course pumice (mixed in equal parts) Total = 7-8 cf 8 cups of Seed/meal mix: 3x alfalfa - Can get pellets or meal with molasses from feed store or EB Stone for a lot more. 3x flax seed meal (Feed Store) 1x fish bone meal (EB or DTE) 1x kelp meal (EB) .5x neem seed meal (DTE) 4 cup mexican guano, peruvian guano, and steer manure mixed in equal parts (becuase I have them lying around) Minerals/extras - Here's where I get a little fuzzy on the details so as of now the plan is mix whichever of the following I end up buying in equal parts and adding 10-12 cups of the mix 1x Greensand (EB) 1x Oyster Shells (Pacific Pearl) 1x rock phosphate 1 cup Earth Juice Mycorrhizae That's what I'm planning so far. Other ingredients i've been unable to source or I'm still thinking about include: azomite/rock dust - Is my mineral mix sufficient as is an in the correct quantities? rice hulls/bokashi bran- Do I need it, do I need to make any adjustments if I don't have it? maxicrop or similar kelp product - Should I get this in addition to boxed kelp meal. Humic acid (dry) The soil will be mixed and allowed to cook for a month or so. Watering/feeding- I will foliar spray twice a week with Pro-TeKt, neem seed oil, and either DTE kelp or kelp with fish. Every fourth spray these will be added to an AACT (EWC, Alfalfa, Molasses Etc. ) that I will also use to drench the soil 3 times; when its mixed, at the start of veg, and the start of flowering. Will water with just a little pro-tekt and DTE kelp or kelp and fish during flowering. If I get bored I might also brew a high N nutrient tea towards the middle of veg and a high PK nutrient tea towards the middle of flower. Otherwise I'll just watch and adjust as necessary. So what do you think. Anything I should add/remove/exchange/adjust in the soil recipe. Anything I should change in the watering/feeding/foliar spray? Any input is appreciated. Papalepew Disclaimer: I take no credit for any of this, and am just copying and adapting LD's mix and other contributions from members of this forum to what I have available. I would like to preemptively refer detailed inquiries into the formulation of this recipe in their direction to minimize the risk of me sounding like an idiot.
hola papalepew and welcome to GC! your mix looks great, you've definitely gleaned some good info here. i have a couple of suggestions but they're by no means necessary. as far as coco goes check your local nursery for the original soil block, it's just as good and typically at least $5 cheaper than the botanicare blocks. not too big a deal as far as price goes but as you know it all adds up. if you can get 'em agrowinn worm castings are pure gold, no joke best castings i've ever paid for. agrowinn also makes a rock dust, agrowinn minerals that are killer and will help round out your mineral amendments. diversity is the key word here, imho the more diverse the mineral mix, the better. my own mix is constantly evolving but the last round included; greensand, agrowinn minerals, soft rock phosphate, granular gypsum, and sul po mag. i'd also up your kelp meal by 2 or 3 parts, maybe do like 2X flax and 3X kelp. i've yet to use too much kelp meal, it benefits our organic grows in too many ways to count so don't skimp there. some fish meal will also help with your nitrogen and phosphorous levels. you may also want to check out a good fish hydrolysate, it'll really give your aacts a boost and some contain kelp as well so you can apply as a gentle fertilizer or foliar spray. i use neptune's harvest fish-seaweed blend a great product that's out there if you're looking for humus is denali gold alaska humus. it's available here in sd for $20/c.f. and worth every penny. you can actually mix your humus, coco, meals, and minerals together and forgo having to buy a "base" mix. i had been using edna's best as my "base" but after recently discovering a local source for denali gold i've been able to replace it and save a few bucks. just a few tidbits there definitely nothing mandatory, of course your methods may vary. have fun and happy growing!
Papalepew I wanted to thank you for giving my dribble and spittle enough interest to give it a go - I promise you that you won't be sorry. Just a couple of notes - the world of mycorrhizal fungi is fraught with crap and worthless strains - like adding ecto strains to endo preparations as a way of increasing the number of strains listed on a particular product. As others will verify, I have promoted BioAg.com over and over. I used to be able to claim that I received no benefit from doing this but that has now changed. I am now officially a 'company shill' in that they gifted me with a few pounds of their straight mycorrhizal strains that they use in their VAM&Activator product for testing. I know their 'science guy' and he had enough confidence in my judgement and research background to give me this product. I gave Chunk a pound for him to test out. What makes this product different from other 'beneficial fungi' products is that this one contains only endo strains and they have 8 in there. The 'big eight' in the world of 'beneficial fungi' strains - the hardest ones to grow out. The price for their VAM&Activator is $16.00 for 100 grams and the rate of application is 1/2 - 1 gram per gallon. I hope that my position of 'company shill' will provide with enough benefit to defray the cost of a half-rack of micro-brews every month or so. RE: Kelp/seaweed extract Adding kelp meal to your soil is probably the best thing that you can add - bar none. With the possible exception of alfalfa meal. Having said that, the use of organic human food-grade seaweed from Acadian Seaplants, Ltd. is also a huge benefit - if for convenience if nothing else. If you have the time and can plan ahead, there is nothing that can touch kelp meal tea - but having an instant product is also helpful at times. And the price is more than fair - $14.00 per lb. from KIS Compost Brewers. You only use 1/2 of a tablespoon per gallon of water. This specific product is high in microbial activity and will serve you well. About the only thing that I would add would be Sul-Po-Mag (aka K-Mag, langbeinite or sulphate of potash magnesia - with the magnesia designation being the most important). E. B. Stone carries this in the right/correct form. This will give you the proper levels of magnesium, potassium and sulphur in the correct form/version. By making up Sul-Po-Mag teas, along with oyster shell powder (Calcium Carbonate) and some liquid silica (Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt) and you almost have all of the soil (+) cations covered. One last thought - I do not and would not ever use dolomite lime for a myriad of reasons but the main one being that it's a very poor 'liming agent' - limestone and oyster shell powder are pure Calcium Carbonate - it's the calcium (in its elemental form 'Ca') in dolomite lime that supposedly provides this magical pH adjuster - it does. But the calcium levels in dolomite lime are around 10% whereas limestone and oyster shell powder come in at 96% Calcium Carbonate and expressed in its elemental form, the calcium (Ca) comes in at 35%. If you think of Calcium as a mineral and NOT as a liming agent you'll be way ahead of the game. Calcium does, in fact, move a pH higher - but not as a chemical process per se. It has to do with the atomic weight of Calcium (Ca++) that adjusts the pH of a soil via the CeC (Cation Exchange Capacity) rather than an instant chemical reaction in moving the pH up or down. Best wishes and if I can answer any specific questions I will give it my best shot. HTH LD
Papalepew Just for sh*ts and grins, if you'd like I will be more than happy to explain how mycorrhizal fungi works in the rhizosphere and why the application of molasses (as a 'nute') is a fool's errand - on every level promoted by that goofy/silly (in)famous article by '3 Little Birds' - nothing but junk and bunk. If you're interested.................. OTOH, when folks continue to repeat goober-science over and over and pretty soon it becomes a fact and eventually it's now part of the cannabis-growing paradigm's 'body of information' which has a total and complete disconnect from the science of botany. By any stretch of the imagination. LD
I can't speak for the original poster but I and am sure many others would be interested in hearing about it. Thanks.
Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the input on the meal ratios and pointing me towards come of those products. I've been looking for a better(cheaper) coco product. The earth juice mycorrhizal product is something I have lying around. Does it make a big enough difference that I should get the Vam&Activator or just switch to that when I run out? It sounds like if I up the kelp meal and add a SulPoMag and/or that Agrowinn product to round out the minerals and I'm doing pretty good. I appreciate the info about the dolomite lime, but I don't think i had that in the recipe. Please correct me if I'm wrong and don't realize its just under a different name. I guess the next thing to get straight would be the tea mixes and schedule. At least by the time I'm mixing soil I'll have all the ingredients I need for teas as well. Currently I'm making about 3 gallons in a 5 gallon bucket and diluting to about 1/5 with: 1/2 cup EWC 2 tbs dte kelp 1 tb molassas 1 tsp micorrizal Once I pick up the kelp and alfalfa meal I'll start adding that to the tea as well. My recipe has been pretty loose and experimental to this point. Sometimes I add in some nutrients, calmag, or humic acid right before i water. Does that damage the tea? Again, thanks for all the input and replies. Made the decision to really go as natural/organic as possible and the info I've found on the forum has been great.
Please, I too am new to the Organics too, and i would like you're info on "how mycorrhizal fungi works in the rhizosphere and why the application of molasses (as a 'nute') is a fool's errand" I have been using molasses, and will stop if it doesn't work.
So I went and did most of the shopping and then came home to find my recipe, which I hadn't bothered saving once it was in the cloud, was totally unavailable. Had to wait for the forum to come back online to figure out what I was still missing. Anyway, here's the list of actual products purchased. Please let me know if there's anything I should know about invidual products or manufacturers. I've also got a couple lingering issues/questions. Here's the list. 1x Original Soil Block - Thanks btc2112. Only saw the Mulch brick first time. Saved about $10-15 between the two 1x Element 6 Mulch Brick 1x 8qt? bag Black Gold Pumice 1x One Earth Compost- looked like a pretty mix of stuff 1x Worm Gold Plus - has kelp and volcanic rock added. 1x Fresh Local EWC- What should I use to keep these fresh and moist? Just a little water? 1x Alaska Humus 1x Pacific Pearl Oyster Shells 1x EB Stone -Green Sand 1x EB Stone - Cottonseed Meal 1x EB Stone - Kelp Meal 1x Down to Earth - Fish bone meal 1x Bulk bin - Soy Meal 1x Bulk bin - Alfalfa meal 1x bulk bin - Crab meal 1x Bulk Bin - Need seed meal 1x Growmore Sul-po-mag 1x Growmore Seaweed extract - haven't found anything with hydrolized fish locally yet 1x sunleaves Jamaican Bat Guano 1x Sunleaves Mexican Bat Guano 1x Earth Juice mycorrhiza Also already have lying around -perlite -happy frog jump start - Should I toss some of this in just for the variety? -humbolt nutrients flavorful - A liquid humic acid. Do I need to add this or a dry humic acid or is there enough already in my mix? -Dyna-gro Pro-Tect The questions - Still can't find any azamite or volcanic rock (other than the little bit mixed in with the worm castings)? Any suggestions short of ordering online? Same thing with the minerals. With the green sand and Sul-po-mag am I covered or do I need to keep looking? Only product I've seen locally is Ironite? I think. Anything else missing? Time to start mixing. Thanks, papalepew