First time poster.

Discussion in 'First Time Marijuana Growers' started by dank_dee, Nov 6, 2014.

  1. Hey guys this is first try at growing. Just trying to see if y'all can help me with making improvements. Ill try to keep this as short as possible. This is a very cheap closet grow. She (hopefully) is at about 4 weeks old right now.

    Strain: Not sure , have a seedbag with several strains.
    Medium: MG Organic mix- peat moss-perlite.
    Lighting: CFLs three 100 watt 6500k about 10 inches away.( too far?)
    Nutes: I know I'll get some hate for this but I'm trying MG gave the first dose about a week ago and saw a good increase in growth afterwards. Should I have waited longer to feed?
    Temp: Avg temp is 80F and humidity 30-40%

    And yes I will be ordering better nutes online for the future I have more seedlings coming. I'm still kind of experimenting.

    I have blood and bone meal, but havnt used any yet, I plan on adding it the medium for my next seedlings when they are ready to transplant.

    Any advice is appreciated guys. And happy growing!

    ImageUploadedByGrasscity Forum1415306588.073230.jpg
    ImageUploadedByGrasscity Forum1415306707.612607.jpg

    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
  2. #2 Joghorn, Nov 6, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
    hey hey, she's looking good! 
    but lets get started. 
    this i just my opinion from the pics and info provided. take with a grain of salt and wait for others to either concur or disagree.

    Time to brings those lights down and get rid of the cones. you'll get the more light from the whole bulbs being open. bring them at least 6 inches away, but preferably closer, 2-3 inches. mine are at three. I'd add another light making it 4, but i have OCD and like even numbers. You're good with 300w on one plant. unless those are 100w equivilent bulbs then id say you need 5 more as those would only be 23w. get a reflector, or better yet for you it seems, is cut some little holes in another of those mylar sun visors pop the light through and bend into a reflector.
    now that those lights are open and closer, it's gonna get hot, about 90-100 degrees there in the light zone. get some more fans to exhaust that hot air out. i see you got a fan in there to simulate wind and promote strong stem growth, good. Intake air as well, they love fresh air. i personally am designing a timed CO2 releaser thing, but we can talk about that later. all that moving fresh air will help regulate temp, and promote healthy growth.
    try to increase humidity to like 60.
    you are four weeks in so i'd say its a go on Nutes. but remember less is more ESPECIALLY if your using MG. in my experience miracle grow has too much nitrogen. go with 1/6 of what that bottle says. watch how they repsond and maybe increase to 1/4 of the bottle info. Cannaabis is kinda like us as it builds up nutes inside and uses it over time, thats why nutrient burn is so easy to occur.

    If anybody wants to add anything or correct me, feel free! :)

    Happy Harvesting buddy!!!
  3. Thanks for the detailed response joghorn ! I had been thinking about losing the cones, I just removed them and lowered the lights to about 3 inches away. And turns out the lights are the 100w equivalent and 23 actual and 1500 lumens. So I guess I'll need more.
    About air circulation I have one small fan close that you can see in the picture and also a box fan about two feet away.

    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
  4. Just found a store near me that sells fox farm, so ill be getting some soon! Thinking about going with the ocean forest.

    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
  5. That's what I'm buying tomorrow for the blue dream I have germing. BTW the CFLs most output comes from the sides.
    I'm on cell phone will post more later
  6. I've grown with CFLs before (I have a random bagseed project just like this actually), and if you're doing a small first grow, you do need at least 4 of those 23w bulbs, preferably 6.  With 6 or 8 bulbs, split in to two groups to spread them out, you can grow two small plants in a closet.  I wouldn't recommend growing more than that because you wont have enough space or light once they actually fill out.  If you want to grow 3-4 plants, you need to start thinking about a couple of 125w grow lights and worry about it getting hot in a small space, and that will increase the smell too, at which point you may as well get a small 250w tent kit.
    The problem with CFLs is light penetration.  You want to keep the lights as close as you can to the plants without burning them, a couple of inches, but as the plant gets taller then you can only get close to a certain amount of the plant.  You can't do SoG with CFLs.  For this reason, look into guides about topping and LST (low-stress training).  If you can make the plant short and flat, you can get better light coverage.  Short and wide plants are your best bet, but they do take up space.
    Be careful with the FF nutes.  It's a common problem for people using them to develop pH problems, just because they are a well known brand doesn't mean they are the answer to your hopes.  An indoor CFL grow might not even need more than one feed (depending), and for small newbie grows there is a serious risk of overfeeding/overwatering.
    Think of it like this: the plant turns light into energy for growth. and it uses the nutrients as the building blocks.  100watts of CFLs is considerably less lumens than 100watts of HID lamps, and many people use 400+ watt lights.  This means your plant will grow less and need fewer nutrients than many of the normal recommendations for grows you might read, and less water too especially when they are young.  There's also no benefit to increased CO[SUB]2[/SUB] on a grow like this, there is plenty in the air especially if you have a fan blowing new air all the time.  If you had two 1000w bulbs blazing over a hydro setup, maybe the CO[SUB]2[/SUB] would be a limiting factor, otherwise I don't think so.
    Bonemeal is a good source of phosphorous, which is essential for bud growth.  If you are adding that to future soil mixes, you are adding long-term slow-release P into the soil, so bear that in mind when you're eager to feed them.  Read the packet and remember, you're adding a solid, concentrated nutrient additive so you may use less than you thought.
    There is plenty of soil in that pot for now, so my recommendation is more light, enjoy the grown from that, and think about feeding again after you start training it.  Even though it is a few weeks old, it is only a few inches tall. My plant is taller than that and I still have it in a 2-inch square transplant pot, 4 weeks old, never fed, only just starting to show signs of needing feeding.  Yours isn't anywhere close to using up the nutrients in the soil in the first place, and it's had a nice little boost with some MG, that's fine, but it needs to grow more green and use up some of that nitrogen now.  I say again, light is your main concern here, it needs light to get the energy to use nutrients to grow.
    Also, bagseed is a risk because it could be male.  You can change your lighting schedule to 12/12 for a couple of days and see if it shows the sex, and then switch back to 18+ hours.
    Having said all of that, taking another look at your pictures, it seems like you might have a lot of vermiculite in your soil mix.  That will reduce the nutrient content of the soil, depending on how much you've used it may need feeding more than my cautious suggestions, but still not as often as you may think.  I also suggest you get a small bag of potting or indoor/container compost.  This is the finer, soil-like compost that has much much less of the composted bark in it.  If you put a layer of that over the top of your soil, it will cover the vermiculite and stop it growing algae and turning green, and cover the woody bits and reduce mould that attracts flies (which are not good indoors).  A little bit of pest prevention is worth so so so so so so so much.
    If you want to make your cupboard more reflective, matt white is better than shiny, unless you actually have some proper mylar accept no alternative.  Mirrors NO, emergency blankets NO, tin foil NONONO!! they may look shiny but they are less efficient at reflecting light than a matt white surface.  Look at them, they may look shiny but they are grey which isn't very white.  Proper mylar looks like it is lit from behind, compared to the other stuff.
    Your first couple of grows are a learning curve.  Don't try to optimise your grow too much right away, because you don't know what you are doing and don't know how you need to optimise your own setup until you've seen what it can do already.  Keep them alive, keep them clean, keep a light touch where you can (although do train them like I said).  The less you do the less can go wrong,  then enjoy your modest yield, and do it again but better, building on your experience.
    I think that's all.  It's not hard to grow weed, it's so easy that if you started flowering it in a week or so, in 3 months you'd have maybe a gram of bud, and all you'd have to do is water it once a week.  My first grow was 2 plants in a cupboard with 90w of CFLs, I grew an ounce of dried bud and it took nearly 5 months.  My second grow, I had 180w of CFLs and I managed 2 ounces with two plants in a ScroG, but it took nearly 6 months and a lot of time and care and patience.
    Good luck!
  7. #7 Joghorn, Nov 7, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2014
  8. I had one more light socket on hand so I added a forth one in there, now ill be getting some Y split adapters so I can add more and hopefully find some some higher wattage lights.
    I don't have any FF nutes right now just he MG and I'm gonna lay off that for a little while. Ill probably have three plants at most going at a time I have two seedlings right now that will need transplanting in a week or so.

    If I try going 12/12 to look for sex what do I look for ?

    I was starting to wonder about the little color change on the top soil , ill try to get some compost for that.

    Do you think It would be ok to transplant it to a FF soil/perlite in the next few days without causing too much stress?

    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
  9. Your gonna look for small buds between nodes that are gonna shoot out white hairs. It's strain dependent so it may take as little as a day or up to 2 weeks normally.
    Some growers do a full day of dark before 12/12 and feel that it helps the plants flower quicker. I've never done it myself but it's an interesting concept.
    Careful with the FF Ocean Forest. It's packed with good nutes and as a's ph can get a little wacky....especially the new batches they've been making. I'd say get a ph pen if you don't have one already.
  10. Thanks for the heads up on the FF ill be getting a PH reader soon I'm curious to see what my soil is at now so I can compare later when I transplant. Hopefully I can find some Mylar and stronger CFLs and get those up so I can then kinda take a step back let her relax for awhile.

    I know this plant is still small but at what point do y'all start topping? And LST?

    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
  11. Don't transplant plants unless you need to.  Saying that, you might regret the ceramic pot, so the benefits may out way the costs.  Problems of the ceramic pot are: poor drainage through central hole, heavy to move, difficult to judge the weight of the pot when watering, difficult to attach things to the pot edges for training.  Benefits are: sturdy and stable, looks like a houseplant, don't have to buy another pot.
    With regards to pH:
    Plants change the pH of the soil by absorbing things from the soil, and releasing other things back into the soil.  This is the main reason for the "20% runoff" advice you will read about watering.  Washing out a little water lets you wash out some of the salts and stuff, and helps the keep the pH balanced.  However your plant is currently quite small for the size of the pot it is in, so you actually don't want to water it that much at the moment.  The amount of roots is small compared to the amount of soil, so the pH is probably going to be fine unless you change it.
    The thing with adding nutrients is, you are adding extra chemicals to the soil which can build up and effect the pH over time, or they can just start out too acid or alkali if you don't mix them right and cause problems right away.
    It is helpful to check the pH of the stuff you are watering them with, and check the pH of the runoff, but don't get obsessed with them.  The more you mess with stuff, the more can go wrong.  The most useful thing is to know that you aren't watering them with nutrients that are pH6.2 without realising.
    Problems due to pH generally show as yellowing and burning around the edges of the leaves, or the growing parts of the plant go a bit light green and don't seem to be formed right.  When you don't know what you're seeing, it can look like nutrient problems, but often you'll check your runoff and the water will be pH7.2 and the runoff will be pH6.3, that's what a pH problem looks like.
    On nutrients:
    MG is actually fine for vegetation.  It has lots of nitrogen in, which is great for leaves, so it can give a nice boost.  When you use it, you want to follow the instructions for houseplants not for veg/border plants.  The trouble is that flowering requires phosphorous and little nitrogen, and my friend was using a similar product all through his outdoor grow recently.  The plants looked very healthy!  But the flowers were tiny and all full of leaves, they didn't bud-up at all!  There were no signs of nutrient burn, but the ratio of nitrogen:phosphorous was totally wrong.  So if you've already fed this one MG, it's fine until you know that the roots have filled the pot.  At that point, if you are still vegging use MG again (or another vegetation nutrient), and whether you do that or not it will want a bloom-type nutrient feed when you start flowering.  Depending on how big you actually grow them, maybe another, but it depends on what the plants are telling you.
    You can feed more than this, but doing so involves the risk of cocking it up, and fixing it then becomes a stressful experience, hence my advice is a light touch and a successful grow.
    On training:
    There are plenty of guides in the forums, some are stickies and some are just popular.  Generally speaking, it needs to have half a dozen nodes (pairs of true leaves, basically) and also be settled in the pot not recently transplanted (a couple of days).  Then you cut or pinch out the tip.  You can actually take the whole top couple of nodes, you don't have to be delicate, they are actually very robust, but the more you take the more recovery time it will need.  I have waited longer and taken the top 5 inches off, then used that as a new cutting, they really are quite hardy.
    I had an old grow diary that involved some CFL stuff from my 3rd grow, just before I got my tent and scaled things up.  You can see in a post here how I have a plant (bottom of the post, clone 7/8) that has been topped and I have trained, it looks like 4 plants but is actually 1.  That way you can veg your plant a long time without it growing too tall, which is what you want in a CFL grow.  The technique I was trying is actually called mainlining and I don't recommend you copy this because it is on the extreme end, but it is an illustration of the general idea.  I had already grown have a dozen plants and done a ScroG by then, that diary was kind of an experiment in how lazy I could be and still grow a bunch of plants in my cupboard.
    On sexing:
    Typically you see a couple of wispy little hairs sprouting at the node sites, and you get a little bulgy thing too.  This sounds like a male plant but it is true on females, so it is very hard for an inexperienced eye to spot the sex of an unknown plant at those very early stages.  You'll probably have to let them develop for an extra day or two and try to get a good clear picture for people to look at.  It totally depends on the strain though, some will be really obvious after 2 days, other will take more than a week.  However, they do need to be mature enough before they will show their sex, and from the look of it although your plant is 4 weeks old, I'm not sure it has actually grown sufficiently big to start flowering yet.  
    Good luck!
  12. Hey guys so it's been 4 days since my original post and I've made some changes. Added one new cfl, ditched the cones , got rid of the ceramic pot and transplanted into a plastic pot with FF ocean forest.
    However I also have a little problem, it started after a few days ago , and has been getting slightly worse...leaves are dark green and drooping and appear to be growing slightly crooked. I'm thinking pH problem ?? It had been 4 days since I last watered her and I don't think I overwatered.. I just watered right now for the first time in the FF to hopefully wash out any of the old stuff still on the roots.

    Could my problem be just not enough light ??

    ImageUploadedByGrasscity Forum1415666068.136844.jpg

    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
  13. Howando,
    Thanks for another awesome response I'm definitely going to wait awhile before I think about sexing/flowering. And maybe another week or two until I think about topping? And hold off on nutes for awhile.

    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
  14. Dark green leaves because it has fresh soil and more light, so it's growing nicely?  Droopy possibly because you hadn't watered it for a while or since transplanting it?  A cup or two of water will see it right.
    Looks very good, don't think you have any worries!  I know what you mean about those leaves, but it's early days, the soil is basically fresh and new, perhaps it did have a little shock a week ago while those leaves were being formed but everything seems fine.
    Regards to topping, I would personally do it now or in the next few days, but I would also have a plan on where I was going to go with it.  It looks like it has 4-5 sets of fan leaves already, it really is growing quite nicely, but I would wait until I had seen it perk up just a little first.
    You can't really do it wrong, although you can do it well.  Ideally you would carefully open up the growing tip and pinch out the very very tip, but practically speaking you can cut it off anywhere between two sets of nodes, although the more you take off the slower it will grow for a few days..  The idea is that you are left with 2 top-most growing tips instead of 1, although sometimes you can get three or four if you are lucky/do it very well.  There are plenty of guides, but essential it boils down to "cut the top of the plant off with something clean".  It's just the same thing you do with a tomato plant to make the side shoots grow more fruit, same principle.
    If you're not sure, wait.  You can always do it in a few days.
    In my opinion you will want to add more bulbs.  Now it is okay, but over the next couple of weeks you want to be thinking about having at least 4 of those 23w bulbs running, or maybe find some brighter 32w bulbs, because your plant will grow leaves and they will suck up all that light, ultimately turning it into yummy buds.
  15. Did I mention I hate that stuff you have on the walls?  Really awful.  If you're going to go to the effort to stick something on the walls, stick up something that is flat, smooth, and white.  Or at least flat and smooth.

Share This Page