Hello all, My current setup is DWC, but I'm switching to soil (all indoor). I have some conventional potting soil to use and some left over GH nutes to use, but I plan on migrating to an all organic grow. The problem is that I really don't know what I'm doing, haha. I've purchased some ocean forest and happy frog and plan on mixing those 2 (happy frog) : 1 (ocean forest) and then adding approx. 30% coco coir to that mix. After that I don't really have a plan. I don't know how to feed my soil plants. When to start, what to feed, how often, etc. I've purchased a compost tumbler for mixing and composting. I'll probably compost the soil after harvest and spread it in my yard or something. I'm not really sure how else to recycle my used soil. I don't want to put it in a landfill. Any direction concerning how to feed the soil and/or how to recycle the soil would be appreciated. Would also like any recommendations on articles or books on the subject. Would prefer something specific to marijuana cultivation. Thank you.
Hey doleo, you got a bunch of questions man, but I will try to give some resources to help answer them. Glad to hear your moving to Organic. I think you will find the Organic crowd on city to be very helpful and passionate about cultivation. First off you mention having some left over GH nutrients to use. I would not recommend using any of those products once you start your Organic grow not even once. It could have a negative impact on your flavor, taste and overall end product. You can use or mix your bagged soil and it will work fine, but if you have the ability/finances it would be best to make a soil mix exactly or similar to this : Easy Organic Soil Mix for Beginners . You will find a good deal of the info you are looking for in that one thread ( amendments per cu ft., different amendments, reusing soil and their functions etc...). Additionally, if you scroll down you will find a section talking about re-using your soil. You mention putting your used soil in the yard after harvest, but their is no reason to waste soil that has been used already unless it has been used in conjuction with Bottled Nutrients. It is best to re-amend and re-use that soil making it richer and richer with every grow. That more applies to your future though once you have made the switch to Organics. I would recommend you not using the same soil that you used while growing with your GH nutrients. That is because the bottled nutrients leave salts and other things in the soil that can make your final product less appeasing. That is even if you flushed the hell out of those plants/medium before harvest. Your will be better off starting with a fresh mix. Preferably 1/3 Spahngum 1/3 Compost 1/3 Aeration amendment following the " Organic Soil Mix for Beginners " thread. You also mention adding Coco Coir to your bagged mix. I would recommend you go with Sphagnum Peat Moss as an alternative to Coco if you end up going that route. Here is some information on the comparison of the two and why Sphagnum is the better choice. file:///C:/Users/Jordan/Downloads/Comparison%20of%20Coir%20and%20Peat%20Mediums.pdf As far as feeding the soil that is really done by starting with a quality medium. There are a numerous of ways to add to this during the grow cycle using: ( Compost teas, Seed Sprouted teas, Coconut waterings, Kelp waterings, Aloe Vera waterings, Topdressing, Foliar Sprays etc...), but the most important thing would be a quality growing medium. One great way of Organic growing I would recommend would be No-Till. Here is a great thread that explains everything you need to know about that method. It is essentially the Beginners soil mix in a 20 gallon pot or bigger with a layer of Mulch/Cover Crop that is constantly being added on top, getting broken down and enriching the soil as well as feeding the worms. No-Till Gardening: Revisited Another thing I would highly recommend is using the search bar to look for questions that you have that have might have already been answered. Most of the time you will find your question has already been asked in a previous thread. Hopefully this helps. Good luck with everything. Here are a list of threads that will get you started and hopefully answer most of your questions. Easy Organic Soil Mix for Beginners ( Soil Mix ) No-Till Gardening: Revisited ( No-Till ) Indoor gardening without bottled nutrients Organic Higher Learning Resources Backyard Composting ACT - Aerated Compost Tea Natural insecticides and fungicides SST - Sprouted Seed Tea hl=plant+hormone+production#entry18658648 Rock Dust Vermicomposting (Make your own Worm Castings) Mother load of Info - GiMiKs Library of Organic Gardening PDF Files All Organic Recipes and Notes Compilation ( Scooby's Organic Recipe's and Notes Compilation )
Wow! Thank you so much! I felt overwhelmed and didn't know where to begin. Now I feel like I have some direction. I couldn't see the pdf file file for the coco vs. sphagnum article. The main reason I wanted to use coco coir was that I remember reading awhile back that peat moss farming was wrecking the northern ecosystems and that coco coir was more sustainable now that it is being incorporated as a useful byproduct that would otherwise just be discarded. I will look into it more. I have lots of coco coir that will keep me plenty busy in the meantime. I didn't want the GH nutes to go to waste (or the money I spent on them). But, I should be able to sell them to a friend or on craigslist or something.
No worries, glad I could help out. Try highlighting the article and pasting it in the search bar it should work for you. If that doesn't work that article can be found here: GiMiKs Library of Organic Gardening PDF Files Scroll down to the Materials and Amendments section of the thread and it is the 15th link down in the section. I understand your concerns about Sphagnum that exact topic has actually been discussed in a few threads before. I know there are some people here who use Coco for that exact reason. I'm sure someone will buy the GN nutrients off of you on Craigslist or something. Wish you the best of luck with everything and welcome to the Organic family of Grasscity.
In the last 100-150 years humans have used less than 1% of all the available sphagnum peat moss on the planet. Most of the hype regarding it's sustainability is due to England burning it in power plants and depleting the resource on this tiny little island. 1% of all the land mass on the planet are covered in peat bogs. Coco coir on the other hand is far less sustainable. It's production uses vast amounts of freshwater and it travels a far greater distance as opposed to peat. There is also the possibility it was produced with child/slave labor. On top of all that, it is inferior to peat moss and has been proven so via many university studies.
I needed organicsamurais information when I first started.. excellent info indeed..also I'd check into Earthjuice nutrients..that's what I've been using and so far it's phenomenal..good luck and happy growing
Yes @OrganicSamurai and @ElRanchoDeluxe are extremely knowledgeable and good to have on board if you want solid science backed advice. They didn't learn to grow at the hydro shop. Their research is a bit more advanced. These guys got me doing too much agricultural science research which is needed for a good start out of the gate. Nature tends to take hold eventually and balance everything. I'm starting to accept this through my readings. Sometimes humans tend to focus on one issue and will shock the system in attempts to correct very minor issues. @doleo premixed bagged soil is a good place to start however you can craft a much better soil for much less. This cost $45 OTD. I can craft 9 cf of extremely fertile soil with just 1 more bag of compost. That puts me at $50 total to make 9 cf of base mix. Unfortunately I just don't feel my compost pile is mature enough so im still going with store bought. I enjoy all those fancy mixes with 50 amendments but I've found that all that is actually needed per cf is the following: 1/2 cup guano or blood meal 1 cup fish bone meal 1 cup kelp meal 1/2 cup karanja cake or neem seed meal 1/2 cup dolomite lime If you want to make it real simple do the base mix with what is pictured above then add espoma tomatoe tone per recommended dose on bag and 1 cup of kelp meal.
Most definitely. In reading some masanobu you learn that we will never actually understand nature. It's ever evolving. Why exhaust yourself trying to understand when nature has it figured out. My inputs for last week...randomly slinging compost. We even think we should uniformly spread compost...does material fall in a perfectly even fashion in nature? No...microbes and soil mites and worms will handle all that nonsense. People are getting soil analysis done on some forums so the ratios are exact. I have nothing against this but it's another example of human meddling where nature can balance it out for you. We're not building a flux capacitor here....
I did want to add I bust the lava rock up a bit with a sledge. I end up with dust up to 3/4 chunks which don't bother me because I run no till. This will cover rock dust as well. All that expensive ass bag of basalt is is a $3 Bag of lava rock crushed into dust. Base mix ratio 1 part lava rock and dust 1 part SPM 1 part compost I just read and wanted to make sure there was no confusion. This mix does require a 4 week cook. You would have to plan ahead.
Good info on the sustainability. And, you're probably right on the child/slave labor. I've often wondered about this. The world is a pretty messed up place. I'll find a way to switch over to peat moss without wasting the coco coir I have. Baby steps... Yes, indeed! Very helpful! Though I've been too busy to read with family visiting from out of town and school work. I'll check out the nutes, too. But, mostly because you're scary and I feel like I have to be nice to you so you don't eat me. Thanks, sir! Simple is good. I need a low maintenance system. I'm a widowed father of two small children and a full-time student. While I enjoy gardening, I have a tight schedule (like pretty much everybody). Question: I bought a compost tumbler. Is it true that you can make compost faster with these? In any case, it is nice that it's elevated, so it should be easier to unload when I need to use it.
It's more of a convenience thing. It will work. Use a cup of alfalfa meal as biostarter. I prefer from the ground. There's much more variety of microbial life down there in the ground.
Plus the clear cutting and destruction of habitat to plant those coconut trees. Guess who started that whole not sustainable narrative? I'm sure it wasn't the coir industry trying to get a foot in the market. The whole thing has been debunked, but the rumor still persist. You'll see similar wild tales about perlite and dolomite lime, two great examples of internet myth.
I heard 'Coot reiterate the whole "floating" thing again yesterday listening to the KIS podcast he was featured in. I guess it is an actual thing when growing trees in nursery pots for 3-4 years. Not that any of us do that... He mentioned magnesium constricting soil too, which is true. Didn't say anything about dolomite... I think a lot of these "internet myths" get started because folks hear (or more appropriately, read) a respected grower's thoughts on a subject, but take the information provided out of context. What's more, thoughts and techniques CHANGE over time. When something doesn't work so well, one moves onto something that does. Is the original information provided still "golden", or relevant? I think not. Does the original irrelevant information get corrected by those that share it? Of course not. Who's got time for that? People need to exercise due diligence when considering information given online. Yeah, a lot (and most) of it is solid. A lot of it is crap. If things aren't working as they should, start researching the things that you've been "taught". Verify that what you are learning is actually true. Organic soils aren't "magic", and all water shouldn't be considered "equal"... What was that saying (from the Buddha, I believe) that you borrowed from MM and used to have as your sig' for awhile? That was a good one...
Convenient is right! I just used it for the first time today to mix 5.5 cu. ft. of soil. It has a 7 ft. capacity but I didn't want to push it. So much easier than mixing manually.
A lot of it isn't even that it comes from respected sources, but that most people don't bother to verify the information they're consuming. Like the article I mentioned earlier in the post. It's been years since I read it so I can't direct you to it, but I'm fairly certain I never checked into it to verify that it was accurate. I just read it and went with it. Nowadays I'm typically more careful, but I still get duped every now and then. No one has yet argued for coco coir. And, it's obvious that a lot of people have invested a great deal of time and thought into this, which is reassuring. So, I'll have to take your word on it for now. I'll migrate towards sphagnum, and do my own research as I go to verify it. According to what has been said in this post, not only is peat moss a superior amendment, but also more sustainable and environmentally friendly to farm/harvest.
While this study does not necessarily correlate to the soil mixes that we make (compost based), it might shed some light. Read for yourself, see what you think... https://cpl.usu.edu/files/publications/factsheet/pub__9468201.pdf I would propose that it's affect on soil chemistry in ORGANIC SOILS is probably why the grand majority of us here that mix soil don't use it...
It appears that you can achieve good results with coco coir if you are growing the right species and get coco coir from the right source and add the right amendments. But, that peat moss is much simpler and consistent. There was a link to peatmoss.com in the report. The website claims that only .03% of the world's peat moss is being/or has been harvested.
