First Time Coco Coir Grow! yellowing leaves??? possible nute burn or deficiency?!

Discussion in 'Coco Coir' started by AnHonestUpset, Aug 8, 2011.

  1. I have an Ice seedling that is about 10 days old (germination and all) and I have noticed that the tips seem to be yellowing (but not burning). I pre-washed the Coco, it was an organic brand from the pet store called eco earth.

    I'm using a 3.5 gal pot, 70% coco 20% perlite.

    I flushed and charged the coco with RO water with 3ml/g Karma and 3ml/g CalMag+, and set the PH to approx 5.7

    I'm using a 30W 36K CFL and a 23W 56K CFL and one 13W 160red/40blue LED for the seedling about 3'' away, but will add lights as it grows.

    temp is kind of high, around 80-85, but I have a fan constantly circulating the air. Inner coco temp is a cool 70.

    I don't think its nute burn i think it has a deficiency in either Mag or N?

    any thoughts?!

    Attached Files:

  2. #2 SCMC, Aug 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2011
    Plants which are that size do not have deficiencies. Your plant needs little to no nutrition at this stage. I would put my money on too "hot" of a pre-charge in that organic coco mix even with your rinse because of what you added back in.

    She should pull through. It'll be a little tough on her, might slow her down a touch and add a few days onto your veg time to catch back up, but she should pull through. Just don't over love her. I'd use plain water for the next feeding or two (perhaps pH balanced with some Fulvic Acid) and ensure I was getting a good deal of runoff. In excess of 30% to remove any residual salts from the mix and/or the pre-charge. Once the plant has 2-3 node sets present is when I begin to worry about building up the Cation Bank in the coco.
  3. So you think its a tiny bit of a burn? I'm being patient and waiting to see if she gets worse at all.

    I'm just confused because I'm using less than half of what the back of the bottle of Karma says to use for seedlings (10ml/g I only used 3ml/g) and I know that Coco can have calcium/mag/iron problems and know that most people recommend a full 5ml/g of Cal-Mag Plus when pre-charging the coco.

    I feel like i used such a small amount of nutes to charge than most people use that I might as well not used any haha.

    but ill wait another day and post the progress and if it gets worse I'll flush with 5 gal of Plain RO water and PH to 5.7

    thanks for the input!
  4. Or will I cause more damage by waiting and just flush immediately?
  5. I've grown in coco a few times now and I've found ph of 5.8 or under causes defs but if I move it up to 5.9-6.0 they seem fine, don't know if this will make any difference to yours being so young?
  6. #6 SCMC, Aug 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2011
    The problem is that you're in an organic coco mix, not just coco, so you don't really know what is in there to begin with.

    Little plants don't really need much food. 90% of that plant is Carbon and Water, which it breathes and drinks. The rest of it was already present in the seed. The total amount of mass of that tiny little thing is just so small that 3ml/gallon of Cal-Mag might not seem like a lot to you but to your little seedling it sure as hell is a lot. I feed my full grown girls 3ml/gallon after all. If you were to pluck that seedling out of the coco and put it on a scale you might have 0.5g there. Maybe. And most of that is just water. 3ml/gallon of Cal-Mag plus is going to be like 10x the mass of the plant, think of it like that. It'd be like a giant giving you a ton of food and expecting you not to get sick to your stomach trying to consume it all.

    The Liquid Karma kicks up a very high EC in your solution, so you don't need much of that either.

    And you're not going to flush the media. Every time you water you should be watering to runoff anyway... Right? So, all you're doing is getting a little extra runoff and making sure that whatever was in your organic mix to start with won't be an issue.

    Odds are that the more you do, like add a little extra of some nutrient you think it needs, or water it too frequently, or spray it with something... All of that stuff is going to get you in trouble. Seedlings are REALLY easy in coco. Water to runoff, nothing special, then keep the light on it and come back in 3-5 days and water it again. The next time you come back around it's ready for food and then the plant is off to the races.

    Do not push her too fast too soon or you're just going to slow her down and kill her. Let the roots fill out and the leaves grow in and the stems thicken up and then she'll ask you for what she needs. Until then... Light and water and time is all that little thing needs.
  7. i started seeds in coco 1 time. needless to say i never did it again. theres just to fine of a line between too much nutrients and not enough when the seedlings are that young and fragile, even if you didnt think you put much in it. i always start mine in botanicare ready-gro moisture or aeration mix. its charged enough to get you through the first couple weeks of seedling growth without you having to do anything but water at 5.8-6.0 until yellowing start to occur. thats them telling you that they are ready for something to eat
  8. Well it has been over 3 days since I last fed them with the 3ml of Karma and 3ml of CalMag. So what I am going to do is pour two gallons of RO water that is PHed to 5.8-5.9 plain for the watering today to hopefully flush out the majority of the nutes that I charged with and to hopefully give the little girl a refresh. She isn't getting worse so I am just going to follow my schedule and continue to water with Plain RO PHed water until I have a healthy 2-3 nodes.
  9. and I am 100% positive it is all coco coir. Its called organic on the package but states "100% coco fiber substrate" The brand is called Eco Earth.
  10. also.... next time you should start your seedling in a smaller container. its hard for that little plant to establish a strong root structure in a 3.5gal pot.
  11. ^............................How would it differentiate?

  12. Just wanted to chime in here because people might get the wrong impression from this post. I start my seeds in straight coco all the time. It's easy and convenient for me to just use what I already have rather than buying something specifically for seed starting. I wouldn't want people to be discouraged from using coco in that way just because of your one bad experience. I have yet to have any problems with seedlings in coco.
  13. that stuff is for lizards and frogs and is not rinsed at all and prob has the highest salt content u could get. rinse rinse and rinse again
  14. Yeah I figured that and before I even planted the seeds I rinsed the coco good and long to ensure there was zero salts left in the mix before I charged it.

    Last night I added 2 gal of fresh PHed RO water and the seedling is responding fantastically.

    Starting in coco in a large pot is no different that starting a seedling in coco in a smaller pot, sure more room for water to go ect but not if u fully saturate what the seedling is sitting in and keeping your temps up.

    I'll post pictures once I'm home to show the progress!

    Sure there are rules to follow when growing in coco like there is with any other medium, but I know coco is the most forgiving.
  15. after the "flush" of my 3.5 gal pot with the ice seedling with 2 gal of PHed RO water, and 1 gal through my 2.5 gal pot of "bagseed" they are both looking much better.

    The one that is larger is the ice seed that I was having troubles with, already having a good start to its 2nd node, the second seedling is from bag seed and was a random great looking seed, it looks like its off to a strong start.

    Ill keep up with updates and hope its all great growth from here on out!:hello:

    Attached Files:

  16. the reason you should start in a smaller pot is when u water in a big pot the plant uses the water close to it and the water around the outside of the rootzone just sits there and can cause rootrot. by letting the root system fill out a small pot u build a stronger root system . in a big pot the roots don't fill the pot out cause ur roots don't need to search for water, and when the plant gets bigger you get problems cause the root system isn't strong enough. ur already in the big pot so the best thing you could do besides root stim is water the outside of the pot and only a little at a time to force those roots to spread out and search for water
  17. #17 TBM, Aug 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2011
    I agree with some others in that you might have a hot mix for those little seedlings. I don't run any nutes until I see the plant going pale. Usually its 2nd set of fan leaves. Then I hit it with half the recommended dose for seedlings. Increase from there. Once you get a feel for the strain, it gets way easier. Practice makes perfect. Some things can't be taught, but learned over time.

    I had the hardest time learning the proper coco moisture level with young seedlings. Be sure to let it dry out a fair bit. I do the lift test. Keep the same size cup/pot around with dry coco in it. When you lift the plants to check the weight, compare it to your dry coco pot. Wait until its close to dry, then water. You want the roots to stretch out. Keeping it constantly wet results in slow root development. The ones I let dry out more grew quicker than the ones I kept wet all the time.
  18. seconded, my seedlings grow in coco just fine without food until they have 3 or 4 leaf sets... with the exception of a drop of superthrive per gallon
  19. i did the exact same thing for my first grow.
  20. so in another thread, there were people arguing about how to plant the seeds (root tip up or down) based off of media being used... in coco which way should we be doing it?

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