First Organic Soil, Opinions Welcomed.

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by Richayy, Jun 9, 2013.

  1. hey everyone, been trying to get ingredients together to get a solid organic no-till soil started up.
    basically i want enough for at least 4- 20gal smart pots.
    so far i have:
    3.8cu ft condensed sphagnum peat moss
    4cu ft perlite
    60lbs of EWC (not to be all used just wanted to stock up.)
    i have a shopping cart on the KIS organics website with these amendments, just wanted to double check before i place my order.
    16lbs glacial rock dust
    13lbs alfalfa meal
    15lbs crab crust meal
    21lbs kelp meal
    12lbs oyster shell
    and i have a 20lb bag ordered of neem cake from neem tree farms.
    any tips on adding to the list or subtracting due to overdosage of a certain mineral would be appreciated, also tips on how to measure the EWC into the mix because its in LBs and i cant find any other accounts of ppl mixing it into an 80gal mix. 
    should i mix in one big container or the smart pots themselves to let them cook. ive heard you want to keep certain minerals in the top 25% of the container for them to work b est. this would be impossible to acheive if you were mixing everytihng in one container to cook right?

  2. Richaaay don't buy your alfalfa from KIS Organics. While they're a very fine company there's simply no need to pay shipping on a product that's available at every farm and feed store in America and beyond. Any store that sells any kind of farm animal food will have #50lb sacks of meal and/or pellets (either is fine) for under $20 - I pay $14.

  3. "ive heard you want to keep certain minerals in the top 25% of the container for them to work b est."

    Hogwash. Mix it all up together.

  4. awesome tips thanks jerry. i scowered my local agway but didnt come across any... i dont really like asking for their help to find stuff just because im paranoid and think theyll know what im up to. \\
    sounds good though ill source the alfalfa locally. do the amounts im trying to get sound ok?
    i was planning on making an ammendment mix with all equal amounts and double kelp. then adding that to my base.
  5. Richaaaay -

    Aeration should be 25% maximum; I run (very approximately) 15%-20% myself...

    You're adding amendments and rock dusts by weight. I have no idea how to do this - it's much easier to go by volume amounts.

    Rock dusts/flours should be added at around 4-5 cups/CF

    Nutritional amendments (neem/alfalfa/kelp et al) at around 2-3 cups/CF

    Liming agents such as your oyster shell and crab at around 1 cup/CF

    Your compost/vermicompost should max out at no more than 30%.

    Remember - every soil is different and these are approximate numbers. Get te goodies into the mix and make sure it drains well.

  6. #6 genghiskgro, Jun 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2013
    Quick question then I made up ITG's mix and my ratio's were as follows
    Using a 4 gallon as a medium but 
    2.5 gallons of EWC
    2.5 gallons of Perlite
    2.5 gallons of Roots organics base soil
    1.5 cup of epsoma plant tone
    1 cup of kelp meal
    1 cup of garden lime
    And Now i seem to be running into some type of either magnesium or manganese deficiency/lockout check out organic magnesium thread to see pics. I know that it may have been too many teas instead of just watering only but there are variables not listed that may have happened that i dont feel like delving into right now, but never in the same week or anything but I do know that constantly using them might throw off ph stabilization because for the longest time didn't think the ratios were all that really mattered but I'm starting to read and hear otherwise.
    But my question is how come I'm running into this now and or how to resolve the matter in next soil cycle I would like to supplement the garden lime for natural liming agent, and also thought it could have been using the roots organic soil that has different amendments and ratios already pre mixed and i didn't take that into consideration so there may be hot spots but i cycled it for had to have been at least 7 weeks before use. 
    But sorry for hijacking thread just didn't want to start another just to address a question already up here.
    Thanks for the input and advice.
    Happy growing
  7. i dont think we have the same question and i doubt your gonna get answered man. this is my thread for documenting my soil process. i wouldnt mind you posting but its a totally random question about your soil and no offense  but i couldnt even understand what you were saying. not tryin to be a jerk but i think your efforts would be better invested in starting your own topic with ALL variables listed. 
    wow thanks for breaking that down jerry. i have been having an annurism trying to get all my ingredients right, while dealing with things you cant even convert without knowing special equations and its been a headache.
    gotta pickup a dry measuring cup.
  9. Volume Richaaaay - not weight. Weights get all thrown out of whack as soon as you have moisture in the mix and different amendments weight much different than others - lets say rock dust vs rice hulls? :)

    Volume takes the guesswork out of it buddy - and remember; VIABLE VERMICOMPOST IS KING and it's soil - if it's not like my soil or Joe down te streets it doesn't matter - it ain't rocket science, so don't stress out.

    Make sure it drains well, make sure that you use quality compost & vermicompost (get this figured out and you'll never have issues again - ever), some kelp, neem and crab, rock flour and you're golden. Everything else is just an extra.


    I mean green.

  10. #10 Moonnugs, Jun 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2013
    Genghiskgro - using the roots In place of peat is probably most of your problem. Roots has a lot of aeration already so an equal part of perlite is putting you way over 1/3. Also roots is mostly a coco coir mix so I'm not sure you need the lime, you should research that further. Lastly you need some rock dust in your mix.
    yea i went and ordered from the site NWB had posted in her blog for ewc and i have a local who composts horse manure organically with fungi and what not so hes hookin me up with a bag of compost so i can throw it in the mix. 
    thanks for all the help jerry. sorry to hear about your states not passing the bill. 
  12. Is that 2-3 cups of amendments overall? Or per amendment?
  13. #13 genghiskgro, Jun 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2013
    Green peace he meant overall per amendment added.
    It was rude of me to kind of jump on here like that good buddy and post my mix up so for that I apologize, but good luck on the mix.
  14. Thanks bro, so I would just mix up my amendments and then add 2-3 cups per cubic foot. Seems simple enough. I look forward to when I'm able to start growing.
  15. Also I've been trying to find it but I couldn't. I know what the purpose of everything in the soil is (rock dust, compost, amendments, etc.) but what are liming agents purpose in the grand scheme of things?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Grasscity Forum mobile app

  16. The liming agents help keep PH in check.
  17. For the most part the liming agents give the microbes access to compounds they can break down to release elemental Calcium into the soil to raise the pH when it needs to be. In an organic soil mix, all you really need is calcium carbonate (limestone, oyster shell powder/flour, crushed oyster shells, powdered egg shells, etc.) and in relatively small amounts. The addition of Gypsum will also provide a source of Calcium, as well as a source of Sulphur which when broken down releases Hydrogen, lowering the soil pH if necessary.
  18. Here's a few links to help you locate some materials, if you cannot find sources locally.
 (rock dusts; I'd go for basalt)
 (crab shell meal, alfalfa meal and kelp meal)
 (neem, karanja meals/oils)
 (EWC, though I know of a nother online retailer that does vermicompost if you'd rather, for roughly the same price)
 (might have to navigate this site a bit; they have fudged up links)
  19. #19 waktoo, Jul 20, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
    I'm sure that by this time your soil is mixed and cycling, but I wanted to add something that might benefit others that read this thread down the road.

    It's really good to know that 1 cubic foot is equal to 7.5 gallons (7.48, actually). This will help keep your mix ratios in proper order when some of your materials come packaged by weight, and not volume. Just use a five gallon bucket to measure out your material by volume.
  20. #20 DoodleBug, Jul 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2013
    I used to reference this document for getting together an ammendment mix for 5 gal and 7.5 gal containers. It has its utility on some level even if the references are in regards to synthetic fertilizers. Perhaps the best benefit is to calcuate those "per acre" lbs on some pachages to something reasonable for a container plant. The math for weighing the ammendment is good to know as well.
    Converting Fertilizer Rates for Small Gardens

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