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First Grow, THC Snow with pics

Discussion in 'Indoor Grow Journals' started by SuperbadB, Mar 12, 2012.

  1. #1 SuperbadB, Mar 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2012
    Hi all,

    Space: 3x3x5 Closet lines with foil (temp till 79x79x79 tentarrives)

    Lights: 1. 8 Bulb T-5 fixture running 8, 24watt 6500k bulbsfor a total of: 192 watts with an output of 92.58 lumes per watt for a total of 17775.36 lumes/9 sq ft = 1,975 lumes per sq ft. My target was 2000 lumes per sq ft. so I’m a bit under right now.

    Containers: 6.5” potsto start with.

    Soil: Fox Farms Ocean Forest, Perlite, Sphagum moss, in a4/4/2 ratio. Water storing crystals ¾ tsp mixed into soil. Great White Mycorrhize mixed into soil.

    Ventilation: 12” oscillating fan

    Humidity Control: cool mist vaporizer maintains 50% night, 60%daytime

    Temperature: 75-78

    Soil pH: 5.8 after pulling a sample of soil, watering withdistilled water(water pH was 6.25)and let it soak overnight. Using a Hannadigital pH meter calibrated every month.

    Water: Tap at 200 ppm out of faucet, pH’d to 6.55 and rechecked after sitting overnight. I understand the pH level can vary according to water temperature, but so far my plain tap water is stable after sitting overnight.

    Nutrients: Heavy 16 Veg A & B. Heavy 16 Prime, Heavy 16 Foliar. Right now I am letting the FFOF provide nutrients for the 3-4 weeks, and then I plan to start at ¼ recommended dose feeding.

    Sprays: SM-90 sprayed every 3rd day. Smells great, but I’m not sure I need it.

    I germinated 9 of 9 THC Snow Feminized seeds and plantedthem direct into my 6.5” containers. I understand now that planting into a smaller container might have been a better idea, but so far it seems it be working out.

    My seeds broke soil on 3/5-3/9 and 6 seem real strong, with3 other lagging behind. I am watering asneeded to keep the soil moist, but not soaking wet. My pots are sitting in a water heater overflow pan with spacers under each pot to hold them up out of any runoff from watering. I started out with my lights 16” above the tops of the seedlings. I am not sure if my seeds were stretching to reach the light, so I slowly started to lower my lights over the past few days watching for heat stress. Today I am within 4” of the top of my tallest plants.I think I will have an issue with my lights being so close because I have some Bubble gum seedlings just sprouting.

    My main issue right now is ventilation in my closet. Inorder to try to provide some sort of fresh air with Co2 in it I open the door afew times a day. I plan on adding a C02 tank, monitor and regulator after mytent arrives. My fan is blowing on the plants and I have had to add someadditional soil as backfill to provide support.

    I have a few questions for folks that have more experiencethan me: 1. How high can I add soil for backfill around the stems, or is this ano, no at this point in their young lives? 2. The directions on the Heavy 16nutrients say my additives should be no more than 33% of the total TDS and thatadditives are anything except main nutrients (Veg A & B). This is confusing to me because I thought Iwould be using my nutrients to adjust the TDS. I had planned on stepping up myTDS weekly after I started my feeding schedule. 3. Am I getting my lights too close for such young plants, even thoughthey do not appear to show any heat stress? 4. What CFM rating for an exhaustfan would be appropriate for a 79x79x79 tent? I don’t think I need one thatwould move my entire 274 sq ft out in one minute. 5. Would a 4” inline fan witha HEPA filter be more beneficial as a fresh air intake or should I just use thevents built into the tent? I live in avery dry and dusty area and I’m worried about what the dust might bring intothe grow tent.



    Please feel free to add comments or advise. Thanks forlooking.
     

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  2. I noticed what looks like nutrient burn or maybe heat stress from lowering my lights. I haven't fed the plants any nutrients yet, I'm letting the FFOF carry them for now. All the THC Snow plants are the same height and none of the other plants show signs of a burn like this on their leaves. My room temperature is a constant 75-77 and the humidity is stable at 56%. I did water all the plants yesterday with a mix of tap water and heavy 16's Prime Enhancer (5mL/gallon). The solution sat overnight after the ph was adjusted to 6.55 and re-tested before watering (still 6.55). The TDS of the solution was 245 ppm, up from the baseline for my tap water at 200 ppm. The Prime Enhancer was my only additive and it brought the TDS of the solution up 45 ppm or 18.3% of the overall dissolved solids. I moved my lights up from 4” off the top of the plants to 6”. I am taking a soil sample today to do a ph test on and see if there is a change from the 5.8 of my last reading.
     

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  3. My soil sample came back with a pH of 6.48 after drying out overnight, then soaking 5 hours in distilled water with a pH of 6.25. My goal was to maintain a soil pH between 6.5-7.0 (Jorge Cervantes book). I also failed to take samples from each pot, slightly medicated at that point yesterday, so I’ll draw samples for a test Thursday. I did water the plants pretty well with plain tap water (6.55 pH ) and I put saucers under each plant to catch runoff that I’ll also use to test pH. When I was doing reading on choosing a soil mix I did run across several posts on different sites mentioning Fox Farms Ocean Forest used alone was too high in nutrients for young seedlings and could burn them. I also ran across just as many, if not more posts saying it was fine, so I’m stumped right now. My main plan is to keep an eye on things and keep backing the light off them until I stop seeing signs of burns/stress. If things start getting worse I’ll start a thread looking for help. If anyone has any ideas about what’s causing my burn marks let me know.

    I did transplant one THC Snow seeding into a smaller red cup container. It was sharing space with another seedling and I wanted to get it into its own pot before roots got tangled up etc. I also wanted to see what the root development would be like compared to the other THC Snow plants that were started in 6.5” pots. I am trying not to over nurture my plants, but it seems like that is a common trait to all first time growers. My overall philosophy on this grow is less is more. I am trying real hard to fight the temptation to change things to get faster results ie add nutrients or the free sample stuff the hydroponics store gave me. I’m also trying real hard not to overwater the plants, it seems they like it more on the damp to dry side as opposed to moist/wet. I’m trying to develop a feel for when my plants need water just by looking at them, but I guess that will come with time.

    My three Bubble Gum seedlings were stretching for light so they all got booster seats and seem to be doing a little better. I plan to back fill soil around the stems for support. I did that with all my THC Snow seedlings and none showed any ill effects. I also was reading that the stems covered by soil just become part of the root system, so I think they will do fine.
     

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  4. #4 SuperbadB, Mar 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2012
    Well time for a quick update. My burned tips continue to be a problem. I few of the new leaves have burnt tips, but it isn’t consistent on all plants. Kind of a one tip here and there. The older leaves that were burned are the same, no progressing of the burns on any of the tips/edges. Seems minor and isn’t progressing outside showing up on a few new tips. The pH of the runoff is 6.57 after watering with plain tap water (200 TDS) adjusted to 6.84. This is a slight step up from watering with tap water adjusted to 6.55. I’m still letting the FFOF carry them for food till 3-4 weeks or when I see the cotyledons turning yellow. I was trying to hold off watering every day, but it seems my mix of 4/2/2 FFOF, moss, perlite drains very well so I need to water every 12-18 hours for the plants in the 6.5” pots. I am starting to be able to tell when my plants tell me they are thirsty, drooping leaves etc. I’ve got to admit it was neat to see them perk up 15 minutes or so after they got a drink. I am thinking about a different soil mix for transplanting, maybe FF light warrior rather than ocean forest and keep the moss/perlite mix the same. I am spraying SM-90 1/5 ratio on the plants every three days. I had a theory that maybe the SM-90 acted as a lens on the tips and maybe caused the burns, but I’m using T-5’s and I don’t think that’d be the case.


    My tent arrived yesterday..all 57 lbs of it (79x79x79)! I have the frame up and should be able to get it finished tonight with some help. I want to get everything set in the tent and run my other T-5 fixture, humidifier and fan to see if the conditions will be similar to my 3x3 closet (75-78, 50-61 RH). I’m trying to prevent any major shock that might occur during the move.
    My Bubble gum seedlings are doing so, so in their little red cups. They require a bit more watering attention because of the limited container size.

    I attached a good picture of the best THC Snow plant. Out of 9 seedlings 5 look great and 4 are lagging behind.

    Just edited for an update, found out all my seedlings in red cups are rootbound so I'll transplant Saturday. I dont really want to put them into the same soil mix if that's what's causing my burnt tips, but I dont want to scramble around trying different soils either..ugh!
     

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  5. The tent is up and looking pretty good for $174 bucks. There were a few small light leaks that needed attention and I had to add three notched pvc pipes to provide support in the center and both side walls. Other than those two issues I have no complaints. The RH is around 62% and my temps are similar to the 3x3 closet space at 76. The plants have been in their new home for a day and seem to like the conditions. I was worried about some of the plants getting root bound and the Bubble gum seedlings are. I'd like to get all the plants into bigger pots, but using 3.7 gallon pots increases the space my two t-5 fixtures would have to cover. Looking at making the jump to a HID setup or an LED light. Heat will be an issue as I am venting into the house for now. I'm also looking at my household AC/heating vent a mere three feet away from a 6” vent in my tent. I might be able to jury rig something into the tent itself if went the HID route and didn't use a cool tube setup. Currently I'm looking at the Pro-Grow 400 selective switch (veg/flower) LED from Hydroponics Hut. The Pro-Grow 400 says it will cover a 42 sq ft, more than enough for my 36 sq ft tent.

    The larger plants are the THC Snow strain (Big Bud, THC Bomb, White Russian) and the same 5 plants are out pacing four of their sisters that were germinated/planted at the same time. Because of the growth differences I'm planning to top and maybe scrog too as soon as the plants get a little bigger. Oh, I was able to get two THC Snow plants into 3.7 gallon pots with the same soil mix yesterday. So far both plants seem to be showing no signs of shock from the transplant. The nutrient burn issue is now confined to just a few of the older leaves and has not progressed. For now I'm just watching it. I did get some advice to add kelp meal and vermicompost as a top dressing to help with the burn issue. I was glad someone replied, but I'm hesitant to add these items. I'm sticking to the less is more philosophy on this grow and just watching the issue for now. I pulled all the plants for a general health inspection and didn't find anything pest wise in the soil or under leaves, stalk etc. I plan on getting yellow traps for UFO's and some neem oil just in case something shows up. I am using SM-90 as a spray on the plants and the soil itself as a preventive every three days. I also stopped adding Heavy 16's Prime Enhancer to my watering schedule, so it's just plain pH adjusted tap water for now.

    I did get some additional seeds for the next grow: Hash Bomb, Cheese, White Widow and 3 free G-13 Haze Feminized. All the seeds were on sale, but I ordered regular seeds to keep the costs down. I'm leaning towards Hash Bomb for the next grow simply because I have 20 seeds (buy 1 get 1 free deal). I'm thinking of doing DWC on the next grow too. I had started a DWC clone grow about a month ago, but kept battling root rot because I couldn't keep the reservoir temps down in a 3x3 space with no proper venting. Well that's it for now, enjoy the new pics!
     

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  6. I pulled all my plants again today to give them a general health inspection as I've been seeing a few stray white flecks on some leaves. Looking at them under the jewelers loop didn't clarify the issue, but my guess would be something bad like powdery white mildew. I was able to brush the few flecks I found, then I sprayed again with SM-90 in a 1/5 ratio pH'd to 6.50. I've been spraying the plants every 3 days, misting the soil too as a general preventive. My RH has been 48-60% for the entire 16 days the plants have been vegging. I was reading that keeping the RH under 60% would help prevent issues with mold/mildew, so I set the humidifier to a lower fan speed and turned on my large standing oscillating fan and the RH is down to 52%. I really hope I'm wrong about my white flecks, but only time will tell. I didn't find anything under the leaves or on the stems, so it looks like the minor nutrient burn and these white flecks are my only two issues.

    I flushed all my 6.5” pots with tap water pH'd to 6.60 and tested the runoff water, which had a pH of 6.66. I was thinking my nutrient burns might be a result of lockout conditions caused by my pH being off, so I'm testing runoff from now on out after each watering. These plants are showing a few roots sticking out of the bottom drain holes, so they really need to be transplanted soon. My main problem is lighting, what I have now would not cover the increased footprint of putting all the plants into 3.7 gallon pots. I'm trying to scrape by till the end of the month when additional funds become available. I have to keep an eye on these small pots too as they require more water than the 3.7 gallon pots. Oh, pre-flowers are showing on all the plants except the three Bubble Gum seedlings and two THC Snows that got a late start. It's a real pain in the ass to try to get a picture using my iphone, so I'll skip trying to get one.

    Overall, I'm pretty happy the way things are going. The T-5 setup seems to be promoting good growth and no stretching. In fact the length between nodes is pretty close and I think that is one of the effects of using florescent bulbs at this stage of growth. I'm looking at my lighting options, 1000 watt HID or LED. I'm leaning towards the Pro-Grow 400 that Hydro hut carries for an LED light, but there's a lot to be said about tried and true HID setups. They seem to have great yields, but my main concern is heat and noise. I'd have to use a cool tube for any HID I used and adding another fan isn't something I really look forward to doing. As it stands I still have to get my fan and filter combo and a 4” intake fan or duct airflow booster fan. The tent sits downstairs in a townhouse with an open floor plan, so you really hear the fans and humidifier running. That's it for now.
     

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  7. Nice post. Details are excellent. I'm very anxious to see what comes of this strain since there seems to be not much out there in terms of info or photos. Hopefully Gemini will reply with some finish pics. I've got the same batch and I'm probably about a week ahead of you. You're pics look great and its obvious that we've got the same genetics. Keep up the good work!
     
  8. Hey jcr65,

    Thanks for the kind words. I have an Excel spreadsheet going documenting daily variables, temp, rh, fan settings, light height also the water pH, TDS etc.. A bit much I think, but it should help me backtrack if a problem develops and pinpoint the problem. Not that it's been too helpful on my nutrient burn issue, lol. I think one of the problems is the strain is new, at least according to the seed vendor and the fact that they mention in their marketing write up that THC Stone's high isn't as overwhelming as THC Bomb or White Russian. I'm not a marketing guy and I'll give them props for being honest, but I would think that might turn away potential buyers. Hell, I almost bought THC Bomb seed instead! That and I was a little chapped that they offered a buy one get one free deal after I bought my seeds! Oh, well. I hope your grow is going well. It's too bad you don't have a journal going.

    I did clean out the large hot water heater overflow pan I was using as a saucer under the plants. I moved the plants into extra clear storage bin containers and made larger spacers to keep the roots well off any runoff water. The plants are getting to the point where they needed more space between them. I kept pinching leaves by accident trying to get all my small pots into my old setup. I also adjusted the 4, 23watt 5000k CFL's to cover some of the new space that the plants are in. Those extra 4 CFL's throw 1600 lumes each for 6400 total extra lumes. My entire lume output is 33,062.53 and that will meet my target of 2,000 lumes per sq ft (2,066.41 lumes per sq ft in a 16 sq ft space). My problem is the CFL/T-5's need to be close and I have two plants just outside what I feel is my coverage area, so off to Home Depot for another DIY CFL fixture.

    I solved the mystery of the white flecks, or at least their origin. The roots of some of the plants in the 6.5” pots are out past the bottom drain holes and they have white bumps growing on them. When touched the bumps dissolve into a fine white powder. I also noticed the powder/mildew showing up on the side of the black plastic pot. This sounds bad, like what I've read on powdery white mildew and it's my fault for keeping them in smaller pots too long. I'm still hitting the leaves with SM-90 each day trying to keep this in check, but I think I'll have to get something else to throw at it. I added some pictures with a tape measurer it give a bit of an idea of scale Enjoy the new pics.
     

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  9. Time for a quick update. I transplanted all my smaller plants into 3.7 gallon pots with the same soil mixture of FFOF,perlite,moss. I've been battling powdery mold/mildew using a 1/5 SM-90 to water spray each day. I kept finding small white flecks that looked like lint each morning on a few plant leaves after spraying the day before. I decided to get an orchard spray that's safe to use on fruits and vegetables, it has sulfur and pyrethrins as the two active ingredients. I sprayed all plants Sunday then quickly left the house for several hours do to the stench of sulfur. For two days the entire downstairs reeked and I'm not looking forward to another application in 7-10 days time. I also will need to wipe the grow tent down with a mild bleach and water solution when I have some extra time and yes, I'll take the plants out before I use the bleach.

    I added another 4 CFL's 5000k, 1600 lumes each to give me better coverage and get light down to lower branches. I also did some LST on my biggest plant using pipe cleaners. I'm trying to get the new growth branches under the main canopy to run parallel to the ground to get out from under some large fan leaves. I know CFL's don't have the light penetrating power of HID bulbs, so I'll need to get creative with LST and light placement to get good growth. I also plant on topping the plants and maybe scrog as well after they adjust to their new pots.

    The two largest plants are 8-10” tall now and show no signs of stress or nutrient burn from their transplant on the twelfth. They both look great and I'm watching for signs that they will need food in a week or two. I did have some issues on the smaller plants before I transplanted them that looked like anything from pH issues, to calcium deficiency. I watered after transplanting them with some calmag and I hope that will fix the issue.

    I included a picture of a plant that had something a little different from the normal powdered mildew spots. This plant had what almost looked like a snail trail across the leaves because of the shine. I took a good look using my loop and didnt see any pests, so I dont think its something new...at least I hope not.
     

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  10. looks like they are doing fine,,,,

    im sure you'll have no issues,

    you planning on training the plants....l.s.t.,

    and it's good your reading your grow book,
     
  11. Hi Chicken, thanks for the encouragement. I was looking at your posts and it seems you've been busy! I'm trying to keep it simple by using one source of information (Cervantes book) for my main growing parameters, pH, temp, rh etc. That way I hope to avoid confusion by getting too many different answers from individual people. Having said that, I do respect the amount of experience and knowledge that this forum offers and I'm always open to input on my grow. Yes, I am doing a little lst with pipe cleaners, but they get pulled out of the soil if I dont check on them each day. I think I'll drill holes around the pot edge and use string.

    I guess I didn't really notice the fact that the plants that stayed in the 6.5” pots were exhibiting a bit of yellowing overall. I think it was caused by being root bound too long in those little pots. They might have exhausted the supply in the FFOF nutrients too due to their size and the small container. Today is the second day after transplanting into 3.7 gallon pots and I want to give them a few more days to see if they start darkening up for me before I think about doing anything like feeding. The FFOF they were transplanted into is the same mix ratio 4/4/2 FFOF, perlite, moss and I have two plants that have been in the 3.7 gallon pots for 12 days show no signs of need anything. My guess is they will bounce back on their own.

    Now comes the hard part, admitting a mistake. I knew better, but somehow in my medicated condition I decided to administer calmag via foliar spray. None of the plants liked that, even though it was pH adjusted. The result was burn damage to all the new growth on the tops! There is also some spotting on the leaves almost like they were bleached in places. Well, I learned my lesson and I won't be doing that anymore!! My philosophy on this grow was something like, less is more i.e. don't go making a ton of changes from what is working. I'm trying to let the plant tell me what it needs, then confer with my book, search the forum on the subject, think about it then make a change. Well, being medicated I bypassed my entire, philosophy. Here are some pictures of the damage.
     

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  12. Nice looking plants man, very detailed also ;)
     
  13. the pipe cleaners are a good item to use,

    and yes drill holes in the pots,
     
  14. Sweet man! Clean looking setup and your plants are looking great. You are going to love that new light. Sub'd
     
  15. Thanks for the kind words guys!

    I've been working on LSTing my two best plants, drilling holes and running string to the new growth under the fan leaves. The idea is to get them running parallel to the soil for a bit before turning upwards towards the light. My worry is the lack of penetration from my lights (T-5/CFLs) for the new growth. Right now I have two homemade fixtures running 4 bare CFLs at both ends of my grow space that covers the bottom half of my end plants. I'm rotating the plants to make sure they all get day's worth of exposure to these fixtures. My Pro-Grow 400 arrives next week and that should alleviate most of my light penetration problems.

    The plants are still showing signs of the foliar spraying of calmag. I hope I didn't set them too far back with that mistake. I'm just watering with tap water pH'd to 6.5 and holding off on adding any nutrients. I'm still getting random white flecks here and there on the plants. I still think its PM and I ordered Eagle 20EW as a systemic cure. I'm still spraying SM-90 to keep the visible outbreaks in check, but I'm not going to use the sulfur spray again. I also removed the humidifier and added a 4” inline fan to improve the air exchange. My RH is pretty constant at 42% day and night. I also have a Soler & Palau TD-100 4” inline fan arriving next week. I was trying to get the quietest fan I could find and the Soler & Palau line was recommended. I also ordered a pair of Phresh inline mufflers that will be in next week. I'll do a side by side between the Oracle 4” fan running my filter and the Soler & Palau. The looser will get one or both mufflers. I also purchased a 6” Dustshroom and a 6”-4” duct reducer so I can run one of the 4” fans for air intake.

    In the picture I added I was using the Oracle fan for air extraction. The noise was driving me nuts, so I added it to the filter and that dropped it down a bit. I have the filter/fan setup in a vertical application because I dropped the whole bloody thing trying to hang it from the tent roof. I'll eventually get it back up there because I think that'd be the best place to get heat out. That's it for now.
     

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  16. Well the Soler & Palau fan was total crap. Cheap plastic fan blade unit was unbalanced and wobbled inside the housing stressing the motor. I replaced it with another 4” inline Oracle fan just like the one running the carbon filter inside the tent. In order to get fresh air I have my intake fan upstairs next to a window. I'm pushing the air down to the tent every 15 minutes on a cycle timer. My exhaust fan/filter is also on a timer 30 on 15 off. I'm using the timer for now on the exhaust because smell isn't an issue yet and running it less means less noise. I also put an Oracle speed controller on the exhaust fan and that makes a big difference in the amount of noise it makes! I'm very happy about that. Even using the speed control on the medium setting I'm getting real good negative pressure now that I sealed all the vents on the tent. Right now I'm running my exhaust ducting upstairs to another bedroom that has plenty of windows.

    I have the Pro-Grow 400 up and running, currently 12” above the plants. The Pro-Grow does produce a little noise with its own cooling fans, but nothing too bad. Under the light of the led you can see each and every little imperfection on the plants. Both T-5 fixtures are now used for side lighting.
    Here are some pics, enjoy!
     

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  17. #18 SuperbadB, Apr 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2012
    Day 7 of 12/12 and the plants got their first feeding yesterday. I was holding off on providing any nutrients because the plants have always had some tip and edge burn, but after 37 days in FFOF I wanted to try. When I checked this morning I didn’t see any additional signs of nutrient burn on any of the newer leaves, so I might be ok. I really wanted the plants to tell me they needed food, by some yellowing of the older leaves, but that didn’t happen. One problem was all the damage done by spraying calmag made it difficult to diagnose/see any additional yellowing. I fed the plants ¼ strength dose of Bloom A & B, with a 358 ppm reading (200 baseline for tap) for a 158 ppm setup. The manufacturer’s feeding schedule calls for a 150 ppm setup each week and I plan on using it for now.

    My biggest improvement was getting the 4” exhaust duct hooked into the furnace vent. Temps here are fine, so I just unplugged the furnace and switched the gas line to it off. I have back draft dampers at the junction to prevent blowing air down into the furnace or anything back into the tent. I’ve been running the system for two weeks now with no problems. I was trying to run cycle timers on both the intake fan and the exhaust fan to cut down on noise, but I game it up. I’m running the exhaust fan 24/7 and the fresh air intake fan 5 minutes every 15 minutes and that has produced a constant negative pressure in the tent. No odor so far, but it’s too early to tell how good the can 33 carbon filter is. I am very, very happy with the Phresh 4” inline silencers. I ordered two more so each fan will have two. The exhaust fan will be a little long with a filter, silencer, fan, silencer combo. I figure it will also cut down on the airflow/fan efficiency, but I think it will be worth it. I also added a speed controller to the exhaust fan and that is helping with the noise too.

    I fimmed a total of three plants. The first one was fimmed two weeks ago and the other two right before going to 12/12, 7 days ago. The remaining three plants are just LST’d and I’d like to see how they will differ later on. I have been very selectively pruning older fan leaves for better airflow and light penetration. My PM issue pops up every now and then, but it’s just here and there so far. It’s been 10 days since I sprayed Eagle 20ew fungicide and cleaned the tent with bleach and water. I wasn’t able to clean/replace fans, light fixtures etc., other than wiping them down. My guess is I’m still living with spores in the tent. I can only use, or rather only want to use the fungicide if I have 40 days left before harvest. I’ll spray again Monday and hope this can effect a systemic change for the better.

    Here are some new pictures, enjoy.
     
  18. Well, had some issues with uploading, here they are.
     

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  19. Looking flawless man!
     
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