Fighting Evil

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Digit, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. do those of you who "fight evil" realise that by doing so, you're only sharpening the claws of evil? that which does not kill, makes stronger... sound familiar?
    by pushing against, you are giving power.
    the door that opens only with the gentle touch.... or rather, stop pushing on a pull door!

    this realisation started to dawn on me from the thousands of hours playing diablo... while considering violence as "evil" (for lack of a better term), repeatedly destroying the three prime evils, who always came back, it seemed to me like fighting fire with fire.

    its the same kind of mistake (which i'm not immune to either, i've slipped into this mentality often) where the tyrant or the fascist is defeated by an act of dominant control, such as killing said tyrant or fascist. that act itself is fascist, to exert ultimate control over another via destroying it, forget the old axiom that overthrowing violent tyranny with violent revolt breeds a violent tyranical aftermath, the very process was the same, let alone what comes after.

    no... if you are to "defeat evil", you must do it within. the old teachings still ringing true today amidst all our distractions.
    and remember, it's not a push door.
    the yin within must be subsumed into your whole, re-allow yourself to recognise your own perfection, in which you need not change a thing about yourself except to allow yourself to be yourself.

    many a discussion i have had with others on various psychological states and conditions, such as narcissism, sadism/masochism, and arrogance. it's the same ultimately self defeating vein. lesser secondary mental forms such as vanity & pride too cannot be overlooked. the problem is, the more one suffers from these, the less likely they will be capable of recognising they are in a self defeating path. and we all have the potential for these to be in us. fortunately, we also all have the power to recognise these conditions, the power to overcome, the power to heal, the power to strengthen our better qualities. the power of love.
  2. "Evil" is within your self, but we place the blame on something outside of our self. The blames can be endless, as to why there is never peace. We must attain peace within our self before we can expect any peace within the world.
  3. Digit, i would have to argue that sometimes war is needed. There is no good war, but there are necessary wars. I believe in such a thing as the greater good, to make reference to harry potter. If you have the ability, I think you have a responsibility to protect those who can not protect themselves. For instance in world war 2, the war was necessary. I could not personally, in good concience allow that much unfair human suffering to continue, unimpeded. Pardon the misspellings, its early.
  4. Awesome point Digit. You cannot fight fire with fire. Only the light will defeat the darkness. Only water can put out fire. More fire just makes for more fire.

    I just came up with a saying about a week ago that goes,

    The only reason people fight fire with fire is because they don't have enough water.

    Fire is hate, water is love.

    Very good thread, this needs to be discussed!
  5. One mans fascist is another mans liberator.

  6. War is needed by warriors and yes we are warriors at heart. But we need to change that, or stop fighting fire with fire. If it never happens, whatever... I reserve the right to say that's bullshit though LOL Maybe there's a better place out there in the universe we go when we die Digit, have you ever thought about that before man? I really hope that's the case, because it seems we can't really get away from the warriors here on Earth, only become warriors ourselves to stop them.
  7. Perhaps there is, and i long for the day when we outgrow the need for violence. But in the case of world war two, what do you suggest we should have done??? Kept our nose out of other peoples buisness and allowed the germans to continue their frenzied genocide, killing 100's of 1000's of innocents?
    The truth is that deliberately lit fire is a very important weapon in the firefighter's arsenal. Fire fighting techniques can be grouped into two broad categories direct and indirect control.
  8. I know about fighting fire with fire man. Still, wildfires shouldn't be put out. They are a natural process and is necesarry for the continued life of a forest. The only reason pine and sequoia get so big is from being burned and the ground becoming fertile enough to support continued growth. Shallow roots for this reason too.

    My brother said something very powerful when we were at Yosemite National Park- 10,000 people tried to stop a fire that was meant to happen.

    I know it takes a warrior for peace to get someone like Hitler to stop. We shouldn't have stood by and watched, no. But murdering them for being guilty of murdering an innocent is still murder. It is necessary, but I still reserve the right to call it some bullshit that we even have this shit going on. There has to be a better place.
  9. I dont think asking the nazis to cut it out would have worked.
  10. +rep roach +rep
  11. A heart attack may not kill, but it certainly does not make you stronger. :) Although that is a popular saying, it is not very accurate, as there are many things that will not kill you outright, and will also, not make you stronger because of it.

    I would not consider violence to be evil in and of itself, as with everything we know, it has two sides, and can be used for good or ill. Can we call a wolf killing and eating a deer violent? We sure can. Can we call it evil? No, I do not think we can.

    That is also not always the case, we need look no further than the American War of Independence to see that. A war spawned a democratic society, a stable one at that. I would not agree that killing a tyrant is fascist, not only because that word has nothing to do with the subject at hand, but also because killing a tyrant can be akin to self defense. In some cases, yes indeed, a violent revolt has brought about a violent tyranny... We can blame the people leading it however, and not the act in and of itself. There is no reason to conclude that someone who starts down the road of revolution, will end up a worse tyrant than the one deposed. It has not always happened, and is solely dependent upon the people leading such a revolution. Some people just want power.

    Everyone would have to do it within, and that just will not happen, at least not any time soon as far as I can guess or predict. As long as there are evil people in the world who want to do evil things, good people will have to stand up and fight to stop them. If you think we could have sat down for tea with Hitler and convinced him of the error of his ways, I believe you are mistaken. Had that been tried, more people would have died while we sat around trying to talk sense into a madman. Look at Darfur, look at all the other places on Earth where the western world has sat around and tried diplomacy (or nothing) when it was clearly not needed. I do not mean to suggest we should be the police of the world, but genocide should never have a blind eye turned to it. Violence, is often times, the only way to stop another's violence. Until such a time as everyone has dealt with the "evil" inside themselves, I am not going to do anything so dangerous. I have to live in this violent, war-torn world, and to do that you must accept the fact that at times, you may be required to be violent and to be a killer. Nature shows us this, human culture shows us this, and until all that changes, it is not safe to be a pacifist. ;)

    Yes, we have the ability to change, but that does not mean everyone will exercise that ability, or even understand it to be needed. Not everyone on this planet behaves in a logical and rational fashion, the people who do rarely need to do any cleansing of their "evil", as they are logical enough to realize that the good of the many certainly aids in the good of the one. Hopefully one day we will all allow reason to rule our lives, I fear however, that many will die and have to die, before such a thing comes to pass.

    Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime. - Ernest Hemingway

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke

    So while yes, war is a crime against humanity. It is often a necessary crime, like stealing some bread for your starving children. If we ignore war, decide to never fight fire with fire (as you say) that will only lead us down a road of death and perdition, as tyrant's rise and try to impose their will on people, we would sit back and do nothing, until that tyrant is trying to impose his will upon us.

    The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
  12. Excellent post LT, excellent
  13. I know of no problem which can't be solved by violence.
  14. The Nazis definitely didn't just cut it out, they cut and ran. Then they ran for office. Now, they run things! See the cycle? You can't fight a mutation, it will only change into something worse.

    The nazi legacy lives and breathes everytime an unjustifiable war is started for profit, or for prophets. The thing to do is turn it against itself, and use the energies created for a positive change.
  15. I think containing evil is more logical than fighting it...
  16. All I can say is in nature the only way a Giant Sequoia reproduces is through wildfire. If we were to stop the wildfires, we would end up killing the trees.

    I know it sounds cold, but sometimes you just have to let a fire burn. After awhile, they burn themselves out and only when they have used up all their fuel.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that here I don't believe peace is going to happen with people fighting for it. Darkness doesn't chase away darkness. It only adds to it and manipulates it.

    I believe in what Sun Tzu said because he realizes our warrior nature and knows the only way to protect the light side is through the dark side. The light side never prepares for war and never questions the loyalty of anyone.

    However even though this is true, I don't want to keep up the struggle. I would rather go to a planet that everyone was good. When I get tired of that everyone evil. When that gets boring I want a mixture (low and behold here I am)
  17. its like someone trying to fight Satan by sinning; it just wont work. the only way to fight evil is by doing good. :)
  18. Maybe there just isn't enough water to put out the fire on this planet and we should just deal with the war and predujice :mad:

    Even embrace it as the answer to our problems with war.

    Deep down I really believe that we are just misguided and confused, bound to our roots of war and the development it caused.

    It makes total sense why people believe in it. We were brought about by it! Still, I wish things were different...
  19. as long as you undestand that good is relative...

    it's not the opposite of evil bc they are not opposites...
  20. I concur... Except of course, the problem of violence itself. ;) :p lol
    We have to stop that which threatens us, do we not?

    Darkness does not exist, it is simply an absence of light and that is all it is. Perhaps we do have to lay down our arms and stop fighting to achieve peace, but I do not think so. Even when we have achieved peace I would not suggest laying down our arms and giving up our military nature, you have to be prepared for anything after all. We can, however, get rid of standing armies. :)

    Peace will never be achieved as long as people remain separate, as long as religions hold sway over different parts of society, as long as nationalism exists. If you want peace, you have to convince people of the truth that we are all the same, and there is nothing that separates us and makes us different. Can this be achieved peacefully? Probably it can, it will of course take time, but in the mean time more people will rise up intent on doing evil. Sitting by and refusing to stop it because you do not want to engage in violence, is violent in and of itself. Allowing someone to die unjustly, when you can do something to prevent it, is the same as killing the person unjustly. War is needed as long as people make it so, as long as people are willing to use it to get what they want, and as long as others are willing to follow them. This will not change now, only when we are one people, one nation, governed and ruled by reason (if we are to be "governed" at all). Even then, it all comes down to one person deciding to renew the violence for it to be present... I do not think we will ever be able to get rid of it completely.

    This light side you speak of sounds very naive and gullible, unable to see the realities of the universe in which it lives.

    Peace would be wonderful, and I think most sane people will tell you that is what they want. We do not live in a sane world however, which is quite sad really. I do hope for a day when we will no longer hear about wars except for on the History channel, when people no longer run around committing violent crimes against their neighbors, I am sure everyone longs for such a day. Until that day comes, we must fight, or we must die. I, personally, choose to fight.

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