feminized Seeds?

my understanding* is that if both plants are genetically female- when the first one hermied the "pollen" it produces is still a female gamete, so any seeds it creates with a female plant should be female (short of any or weird recessive traits)


*my plant genetics module at university was really early in the morning and didnt take attendance, so allthough I did pass the module I didnt go to many of the lectures.

 

When hermie pollen is used there is always a 50/50 chance of hermie offspring. It's just how genetics/dna works.

So my advice is when growing those plants avoid stress, and keep an eye on them. Just because the hermie trait is in them doesn't mean it has to show itself, just means it could.

 

I'm not saying your wrong- but do you care to to show how you get to 50/50?

If we were talking about a triploid hermaphrodite (XXY) haploid(ish) gamete separation would give:
(X) (XY)
(X) (XY) the other X to the top one, no difference in outcome but a different way of getting at it.
(XX) (Y)

Given the mother is normal and is only giving X gametes that gives you an offspring ratio of:
2 (XX): 2 (XXY): 1 (XXX): 1 (XY)
presuming the triple X is a viable phenotype that gives
50% female (33% normal diploid female, 17% triploid female)
17% Male
33% Triploid Hermaphrodite.

If we're talking about an induced intersex plant rather than a natural hermie, which I think we are, would its gametes be different than if it hadnt been stressed? where does the y chromosome come from?

 

Yeah but your hoping that the original plant is a female turned male bc that's only way feminized works.... What if it was male turned female then wouldn't work the opposite way?.... I'm no scientist but that's just my 2 cents...

Normally don't they take a female turn it male then put it with true female making it have all girls since the male really just a tranny lol

I know you said you pretty sure it was feminized seeds I thought.... Just alot time to waste to get bunch males or more Hermies....Bc the Hermie that random normally with me pass that on.
.Idk though I might be stupid.... Good luck BUDdy whatever you do

 

Seeds are rather cheap.... Attitude seeds is my #1 pick

 

genetically male intersex i think would give you
(X) x (X)
(X) x (Y)
(Y) x (X)
(Y) x (Y)

So 25% female, 50% male, 25% none viable (I dont know whether YY stops at the zygote stage or produces a none viable seed) , meaning of what actually grows a third are female, two thirds male, but you still get no natural hermies.

 

OK but all I know is weaker the genetics the more chance of Hermies....I'm not exactly sure that it applies to plants the same...I just know from 15+ exp in growing.... When I mess with things like bag seed I get more those.... Cool thing though BUDdy

 

I think the confusion here is very few people here draw any distinction between induced intersex plants and natural hermaphrodites- calling both hermie. A natural hermie was going to turn out that way whatever you did to it (genetics) an induced intersex is caused by stress.
'strong genetics' would mean the plants robust as fuck and you'd have to try to mistreat it to make it intersex as a defence mechanism.
'Weak genetics' its less robust, easier to shock and there for intersex plants that if you gave them ideal conditions would remain female.
In extreme stress both strong and weak will intersex, In perfect conditions both will be fine, in real growing conditions somewhere between the two the weak will intersex much easier. But thats still a different thing from them having hermaphrodite genetics.

Well yeah, thats just a lottery.

 

Nah I order feminized seeds and take clones

 

But I think I get what your saying

 

Dude the 50/50 was just basically like me saying that it's gonna be a flip of a quarter when growing those seeds. The fact that they were made from pollen of a hermie means the treit is there. Leaving the potential for hermie offspring.

At the end of the day a hermie is a hermie. Stressed or not.

Breeders that care about their customers stress test all their plants to avoid using hermies Therefore not selling hermie seeds to theri customers These breeders also use STS when making feminized seeds. STS works by blocking hormones to create the pollen.

 

Firstly glad its all working out for you.

"Would not the seeds from the WiFi have the chance of 50/50 male female with an errant Hermie in the mix?"

Theres two different things most growers would call hermie, but scientists would call two different things.
i)A true/natural hermaphrodite is caused by its chromosomes, something has gone wrong in its fertilisation process, it presents as having both male and female bits, it has both X and Y chromosomes and therefore can produce both X and Y gametes (allthough usually in an odd proportion as your often talking about having unusual chromosome situations like xxy)
These happen in humans and animals too.

ii) Induced intersex characteristics. Genetically they are one sex, normal plants that in a good growing condition grow as a single sex plant, for arguments sake female- but under stressed situations will produce male flowers as a survival mechanism, in bad enough stress any female plant could do this. But because they are XX females they are only capable of producing X gametes.
This dosnt happen in humans (I believe the highest animals that do such things are like star fish), but imagine there was a normal woman (XX) and starvation or some other stress convinced her body she needed to reproduce instantly and the best way of doing that was to have both male and female reproductive systems and produce sperm as well as eggs- it wouldnt change every cell in her body to be XY, she would still be XX, but produce X eggs (normal) and X sperm (men produce 50:50 X:Y normally).

So what I was saying up in post #5 was that if you have a natural hermie, that was always going to hermie no matter what you did there would be a percentage of males- if you knew what type of chromosome abnormality it had you could predict the %, if you knew the % you could have a go at working out what it might have been.
But if you have induced intersex from stress, which from your post I presumed was the case then both mother and 'father' plants only have x chromosomes, therefore only produced x gametes and theres no combination of rearranging will make XY out of that- you get all female offspring.


"And would the seeds from the Kush then carry the trait of all the strains..ie DNA representative of the original mother and then that of the Kush?"
Not all the traits, if both parents passed all their DNA on to their offspring then each generation would have twice as much DNA as its parents and that wouldnt work.
In a diploid cell you have two copies of each chromosome- one from each parent. When gametes are produced one copy of each goes to the egg/sperm/pollen but randomly (Ie a Y pollen from a plant is not exactly the same genes as the Y pollen that came from its father but a new gamete that has a random mix of the chromsomes from each of its parents*)
So all the traits of both parents are present spread across the full set of offspring, but some will be more like one parent, some more like that other.
This is exactly the same as any cross fertilisation between strains.

hope that helps


*to further randomise things theres also mechanisms that swap sections of DNA between the matching chromosomes and random mutations.