Father/Mother vs Mother/Father

Discussion in 'Marijuana Seeds Banks' started by King, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. #1 King, Jul 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2009
    Not sure if this is a dumb question or not, but would it make a difference when you cross two different strains?


    female ak-47
    crossed with
    male white widow


    femal white widow
    crossed with
    male ak-47

    Would the seeds be identical and grow to the same plant, would there be any difference?
  2. they would be 2 totally differnt plants actually.the males will add there genetics to the female,for example the female ww crossed with the ak will be more ww then ak and vice versa,and you also have to consider hybrid vigor wich can result in many differnt phenos from a single batch of seeds.the seeds we buy are a result of many years of crossing and inbreeding to get consistancy.
  3. my background in eukaryotic genetics tells me that this isn't really true since sex chromosomes are distinct from the other genes that would control THC potency, yield, etc (i.e. when two parent's have kids, their female baby isn't going to look or act more like the mother just because she is female). granted i have absolutely no experience in breeding cannabis whatsoever, so please correct me if you know this is true from personal breeding experience...but I just can't help but point out that the sort of genetic inheritance you are describing is quite strange...
  4. Here are the main things to remember in breeding:

    The genotypes of plants are controlled by genes which are passed on unchanged from generation to generation. These genes occur in pairs, one from the genes of the male parent and one from the genes of the female parent. When the members of a gene pair differ in their effect upon phenotype, the plant is termed hybrid or heterozygous. When the members of a pair of genes are equal in their effect upon phenotype, then they are termed true-breeding or homozygous. Pairs of genes controlling different traits are inherited independently. Dominance relations and gene interaction can alter the ratios of the F1, F2, and subsequent generations.

    In other words:

    25% Female Dominant traits
    25% Male Dominant traits
    25% Mixed Dominant traits
    25% Fixed Dominant traits

    In other words, either way you choose to go will produce the same ending results in your offspring.

    You will want to clone the donor mother and save pollen from the donor male to further the stability of the cross. Since both parents are now considered true breeding lines, your end results will be F2 at best regardless of inbreeding or successive back crossing you do.

    The key is your selection of parents. This will be the determining factor. I have found growing 20 of each strain results in finding one true male and one true female of each strain. I then collect the pollen from the true males of each strain, and clone the true female from each strain.

    Now you have your parents and pollen to work with. The next step is selection from the offspring of your initial cross. This is where you want to watch every stage of growth from seedling to full bloom so you can determine and select the phenotypes you desire.

    Sorry to make this so long, but breeding is far more complicated than just throwing pollen on a female of another strain. To answer your question of making a difference, no, regardless of which parent is which, the ending results are the same. This is why it is important to be very selective of both the male and female donors.

  5. I think its fair to add though, that the resulting seeds will NOT grow the same "set" of theoretical plants.

    The male AK 47 will have a unique genotype, even if the phenotype is the same as your favorite female. As well, since genetic code is not copied identically, but more assembled randomly, you will get all possible expressions for the male parent given a large enough sample of pollen.

    The same goes true for the WW. The male and female will be different, to some degree depending upon your level of selection, and as such will not yield identical offspring.

    Its also possible that your male plant has traits where both alleles are dominant. The female could have one dominant and one recessive. From your point of view, both are identical for the trait, when in fact they are different.

    if you really have the option of either one, why not do both? Then, you can sort through some of the offspring, and see for yourself. Yes, for the most part they will be similar, most likely. But, even the typical plant from each group will be different in some respects, and the extremes from each will be largely different.

  6. I think my first step would be to reproduce both strains first. A dominant male and female of each strain will produce a good line of seeds to use towards your cross. Also, you will have good line seed stock of each strain for future grows. Again, since both strains are hybrids, you will also see variations in your inbred offspring which you can use to select the exact characteristics you desire.

    The thing to remember is that the selection of male is equally as important as the selection of your female.

  7. Great info. Just starting to dip my toes in genetics and this was very helpful. Thanks folks
  8. yeah,I asked this question once and NOBODY responded.Good to get some feedback,second hand or not
  9. With hybrids, the f1 generation is going to be pretty similar. Whichever parent is more dominant will be the primary trait giver for the f1s. So since AK is more indica, and WW is more hybrid, the AK will show in the f1.
    By f2 recessive genes will show. If you selectively breed the f2 you can eventually achieve a desired pheno. Over time you could in theory create a new strain from the f1 hybrid, or you could create a phenotype that is almost identical to either WW or AK.
  10. When did AK 47 become "more indica"? AK 47 is a Sativa dominant strain. White widow is a 50/50 cross of Sativa/Indica. Regardless, none of this has any bearing of what gene expressions will show from the offspring. Since both strains are hybrids, the offspring will show signs of both the Sativa and Indica parents of both strains. AK 47 being more Sativa dominant chances are you will get more Sativa traits than Indica, however since both are hybrids, there could be any number of results from the cross. Some White Widow(Black widow) depending on source is pretty much true breeding now, same with AK 47, however not all breeders are using the exact same parents, at best, maybe the true mother but not both true father and true mother.

    F1 generations from hybrids are fairly stable, however when crossing 2 hybrids the resulting F1 generation is all over the place in the expressions of traits and phenotypes.
  11. More sativa, whatever. The point is, if it is closer to 50/50(WW) it's going to have a greater mix of recessive traits. If it is closer to one species it will have more dominant traits from that species.

    You aren't going to see any recessive traits until the f2 generation.
  12. huh , can you explain how you mean until F2 ?
    Probably I didn't read this good ... :confused:

  13. no, you read that as I did, I believe

    @ Pola Bear's posts.......

    you can see recessives in the F1 generation, it just depends upon the genotype of the parent.

    for an example....consider a cross of two plants, with the alleles for a trait of FF x Ff. you wont see recessives until the F2 on this one ;) (only 25% of the F1 generation will even carry the recessive trait, none will express it)

    however, if it were Ff x Ff, 25% of the F1 generation will be recessive for that trait (ff). 75% will appear to have the same phenotypic expression for that locus, but of those, two thirds will be heterozygous and a third homogenous dominant.

    to expand on the other point that was asserted, being indica, sativa, or a hybrid thereof has NO bearing on the dominance of an allele. an indica is not a mostly recessive plant, nor is a sativa....they both have their own full genetic pools including both dominant and recessive traits
  14. well, u talking about mitosis or its meiosis ?

    There is not and never can be 50%-50% of inheritable gene pool.
    Always is presented many variations in crossing two sable strain.
    So, finding exact mother in F1 or F8 is impossible.
    Once crossed means genes pool is changed for ever.Hence this some strains are still in clones only because it's impossible find exact mother in any of next generations.

    By presented belief on Cannabis forums its 50%-50% if you cross two stable genetics (its a deep question about stabilization and how it comes).
    However, truth is to 50%-50% is actually 80%/20% - 20%/80%.
    So founder in selection/searching for mom in F1 cant find exact mom gen but its possible to find 80% of mom gens (that is 50%, maximum is 80% of mom gens in that 50% and 20% of dad gens in that 50%).

    Well, now Im really lame to explain you better ... cause language.
    Hope you all understand me ;)

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