Fate

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by thabosshogg, May 12, 2011.

  1. #21 ImagineReality, May 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2011
    Agreed. Hence our faith in a higher power we will never understand.

    Think of your "acceptance" description, ok? What boss is saying is this acceptance starts somewhere, and then continues to grow. What you have accepted in your past, determines your free will, or fate.
     

  2. That is a very fair statement.... though I would say that there is only one way that anything could happen and therefore there is such a thing as fate. Fate is indeed a wonderful reason for acceptance and surrender.... unfortunately if you are someone who likes to be in control fate will not bode well with you.

    I also agree that we can only share our opinions, we can't prove it or disprove it. In the way I view life I very clearly see fate as a reality (that's not to say it is in fact a reality), and in the way you view life you equally clearly see predetermination as a non-reality.... all we can do is discuss our subjective viewpoints on these things.

    I completely agree with the latter statement though.... we certainly cannot truly understand intellectually what is going on, because it is all extremely paradoxical and our minds don't work like that.



    I will ask you this, do you agree that if you go back to any event in your life without knowledge of the future you will make the same choice every time?
     
  3. It's ignorant to think we will never understand it, unless you think evolution isn't real and that we aren't learning more as time goes on.

    Which is also pretty silly to think.
     
  4. #24 ImagineReality, May 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2011
    Read my edit.^

    I'm saying there will ALWAYS be a cause to the effect.. You must accept something completely beyond us has caused our existence. (I do believe evolution was just a part of the creation (effect) process) Now consider what I said about acceptance above. We can agree on what we accept to be true today, but knowledge, or fate, is ultimately endless. (until death/destruction of universe) Where this acceptance began, is the same source it ALL began. (Just a gigantic series of cause and effects, or fate;) )
     
  5. Has nothing to do with control for me. I just don't have a reason to believe it's true.

    Fair enough

    I argue it only seems paradoxical to us because we haven't yet begun to understand it. Remember there was a time when the sun itself was regarded as an all-seeing watcher in the sky, until we learned a little more. As time goes on, there's nothing to say we won't learn to comprehend whatever it is.


    Who knows? Maybe what we feel as deja vu is a future self replaying an event to make a different decision than what was originally played out? Maybe true earth is an advanced civilization that's merely learned to shape the past? I can't completely agree to statements like that, because in a universe like ours and the understanding we do - the possibilities of what's actually the truth are endless. That's the only way I can look at it, personally.
     

  6. I can sympathize with everything you said.



    As to the bolded part... I wasn't trying to say you can't accept it because of control I respect that you just don't find a good reason to belive in fate... I was just making a general statement that if someone believes in fate and also feels a need for control that person will be in a pickle.
     
  7. What you do, everything you are
    meant to do, it is your choice, you are choosing
    it, but it is also predetermined. You can't
    change what you will do, but it also technically
    does not exist until you do it. The experience is free, but the action is fated.
    Although it is true that fate, or cause and effect, consists of an infinite chain of variables, if one were to learn of the variables affecting the outcome of a specific situation, it would be possible to predict the future. If one were to learn of the factors affecting the variables of a specific situation, it would be possible to effectively control the outcome of a specific situation.
    In this manner it is possible for one to possess a certain degree of "control" over one's own fate. However, there will always be causes above you and above your understanding. It is impossible to know all of fate because fate is an endless or eternal process. You cannot see the entirety of something that has no end.
     
  8. I dont think you have any kind of evidence to this. This is just your belief. Don't speak of it like it's fact.
     
  9. You told us to think of what we want to think. Then you assumed we would latch onto the first idea to come to mind and not consider other ideas. That's wrong. Pizza wasn't the only thing to come to mind after you suggested the exercise and placed the suggestion of food. I lost count of the things that came to mind before I decided to focus on steam trains, and if you could visualize the thoughts they'd probably look like a tree with a particularly developed branch toward foods (since you planted that suggestion), but with other branches than that.

    The idea seems to be that what comes into my mind (those branches) isn't my choice, but the choice was made inside my mind and whether subconscious or conscious it was my choice and a result of my personality.

    If my supposition of your point (right above) is true, then you don't even have a choice here. You are fed a number of predetermined approaches not of your choosing, from which you will choose. That is demonstrated vividly in the piece I cut out, where you lay out a couple such approaches to choose from.

    I can refuse to do so.
     



  10. I disagree with your first point, because even your choice of which thought to pick and post on here is, as you said, a result of an infinite number of variables that occurred in your life up until that very moment. If you went back in the past with no knowledge of the future you would make the same choice again, in my opinion. You say it is a result of your personality, I say that your personality is not the self, nor do you have any control over your personality, thus a choice made by personality is not something you have control over.


    The second point you make is true.... even the choice to percieve the world a certain way is not entirely governed by free will.



    Thirdly, that's fine lol...
     
  11. If we study quantum mechanics, you would know quantum describes possibilities. But what creates these possibilities? Consciousness, correct? Anything has infinite possiblities in the big picture, until an observer determines it's own fate, or possiblity.

    Let me ask you, if the universe began with 1 atom, where did consciousness come from? Goes back to the old question:

    "What came first? The chicken? Or the egg?"
     
  12. Consciousness IS. It does not "come from" anywhere. Consciousness does not work in a linear fashion, it is just an outpouring of itself in a non-linear fashion
     
  13. Consciousness created the atom, not atom created consciousness..
     
  14. This is just speculation based on zero scientific research. I hope you understand and accept that.
     
  15. The atom is the nature of the consciousness. Consciousness is the nature of the atom. It is somewhat of a cycle, and it is not linear. These linear concepts are merely our minds attempts at understanding things.
     
  16. I've made many choices by flipping a randomly selected coin from my pocket. Are you suggesting that the laws of physics would repeat both same selection of coin and the same flip result?

    So what's the point of trying to stay positive? You don't have any control over that.

    ^ is he saying consciousness is physical?
     
  17. #37 ImagineReality, May 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2011
    I hope you understand I don't rely on science. Science is infinite. My source=infinite. Science attempts to answer questions I have already answered. (not ALL obviously, but the source of everything)
     



  18. As to your first question, yes, it will land the same way.


    You have control over staying positive if fate has put you in a position (through your personality, life circumstances) in which you have the capacity to do so.
     
  19. Technically, I guess.. I'm saying we are made physical by consciousness. (which I believe to be energy)
     
  20. Do we really know for sure if science is infinite? I mean, we live finite lives how could we ever find out and overpopulation.
     

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