I feel like the two ideas are compatible. We do have free will to make our own choices but the choices we make are causally determined by the options available to us and by who we are as a person. With every choice you're presented with there is one way in which you will choose, you just don't know which way it is until you've made the choice.
I often test this theory. For example..now that this,subject of future tripping has been brought to my attention..I will randomly blink my eyes for 5 seconds. K. That's done. Would I have done that if I did not red this? Wth! Sent from my iPad using Grasscity Forum:blaze:
This^^^ I don't believe in determinism. The fact that I don't beleieve in determinism proves determinism wrong. That being said, I have absolutely zero say over fate. A tornado could take out my house tomorrow for all i know. But I can chose what to do with the fate that's given to me Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
I'd like to point out the circular logic here. Fortune tellers can predict the future because the future is determined because fortune tellers can predict it Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
The word "supposedly" hints at the answer to your first question. Also, "choice" is a tricky thing when coupled with the even trickier notion of a chooser given that specific decisions happen at the neural level even before the result is passed to the frontal cortex to be experienced by "you". And that "you" is an even trickier and more complex brain functionality, which is, for all its levels of complexity, still the outworking of biochemical reactions [electric charge interactions] and a labyrinth of self-regulating, self-adjusting, feedback type control systems.
I think free hat tricked us into thinking this thread is about free will or determinism. When in reality, it's 10 years old and had been covered like 3 times in the past two months already lol.
explaining hhow something works.doesn't change what it is. That is to say, a microwave still cooks food and a human still loves. You can say of its just.chemical reactions, but aall.you did was describe the machanism of choice not disprove it Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
I don't think determinism needs to be believed in to be true though. Whether or not one believes in determinism could be determined by a multitude of things such as ancestry, experiences, environment, etc. all of which have played a role in the shaping of your mind as such that you would not believe in determinism. If I were omnipotent I might be able to trace multiple cause and effect chains all the way back to the beginning of the universe (supposing the universe even had to begin and wasn't just always in existence) that all ultimately lead to your existence as a person who doesn't believe in determinism and now finds themself in this very discussion.
Could self awareness exist if free will didn't? Is a computer aware? Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Yes, I don't see why there couldn't exist a being that is self aware but doesn't have free will. A computer is not self aware. A computer does not have free will. A rock is not aware. A rock does not have free will. This doesn't really prove anything about beings that may or may not be self aware and/or have free will. In any case I'm not even trying to debate free will. I believe in free will. I also believe that all actions are causally determined.
That's a self contradiction though. One cannot freely chose chocolate over vanilla, if the choice was already determined by past experiences. What is a choice? Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
I don't see the contradiction. Why do you choose chocolate over vanilla? Isn't there always something that determines what choices you make?
no. Because sometimes the vvariables are subjective and spontaneity exists. Meaning hypothetically while you could argue tthat I would pick.chocolate because I like it better, that isn't determined. I could spontaniously decide to try vanilla.one day You could still argue I had reasoning for the deacision but that doesn't nessesarily equate to cause and effect. Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
So you could either be the type of person that chooses their preferred flavor every time or you could be the kind of the person that likes to switch it up from time to time. This will determine how you choose flavors, with a slightly different mindset one day leading to a vanilla choice rather than chocolate. Why are you like this? Is it genetic? Is it how you've developed based on your experiences? I don't really see any effects without causes. Since we don't know all we can't always determine all the direct or indirect causes but the pattern of cause and effect is pretty clear across all existence.
then how do you justify free will? How is a human choosing chocolate any different than a computer solving an equation? Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Does it feel like a choice to you? Do you really know everything going on in your head when you make a decision? Since we don't know all we can't see all the causal chains around us and inside of us. Free will is our experience. It is not readily apparent to ourselves or anyone else which choice we will make when presented with a decision. Our thought process is extremely complex. A computer is just a simple machine reaching the one answer that is already known to be true.