Fate or choices?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by mashcat, Feb 20, 2004.

  1. Fortune tellers can supposedly tell your future,so does that mean you have no choice in what happens in your life?I have had crap happen in my life like alot of people but was it our stupid choices or were we meant to have bad experiences?Are we part of gods plan and we are the sufferers who will have enough anger inside us to wipe out all evil?
  2. ahhhh... the old free will vs. determinism.

    To quote Rush, "I will choose free will."
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  3. I think free will is something you can choose after the decisions were made by the almighty. the almighty one chooses our way and then we can do it or not. Believeing in fortunes is one way to make your path. I believe in tarot and ouiji and black magic.
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  4. You don't have free will though if the decision has already been made.I think no matter which path you choose it's already laid out anyway.We are all part of a master plan.
  5. well ive always seen as sort of both....

    i mean, you are you. you will do what you do. so although you have many choices to make through your life, you will always choose the ways that YOU want to go. so although you get to go where you want, its sort of already decided in your head.

    you already have all your answers, you just dont know the questions yet. therefore, life is like a big game of jeopardy.
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  6. that jeopardy anology was fuckin bad man... good point.

    i dont really know whether i believe in fate or free will. i just live.

  7. thats exactly what i think too
  8. i think the future does not really "exist", the future is merely the effects of the present, whatever we do in the presence will determine what happens in the future. I also believe in our free will to do whatever we want to do in the present, so by doing in the present we set the causes for the effects to occur at the time the future becomes the now
  9. theres no plan. if there is its my own, and its basically to survive :)
    happily :D

    and as for the saying which I think applies here..everything happens for a reason, of course it does, we as humans have the ability to justify the means that make it seem so. does everything happen for a reason?

  10. Of course there isn't.

    To try and prove it:

    everyone pick up one item on your desk right now. Make sure it's the item YOU want to pick up and is not predetermined by ANYTHING. There ya go; Free Will.

  11. Haha, the sceptic here would say that this still was fate controlling the "choice" you made.

    My major problem with fate is that it would be too easy. You could blame anything on fate...

    "Well, sorry, officer, it wasn't me shooting that guy. It was fate"

    And think how depressing it would be to know that you don't really have free will and the power to influence yer own life.

    No, I don't think fate exists at all. There's too many varyables
  12. So the conclusion is that I am my own worst enemy when it comes to personal choices.I still think fate exsists because there are still things that happen which you have no control over like miscarriage,some cancers,disabilities.It's alot easier to blame fate then take responsibility yourself,there's always blame.

    Did you know its possible to drive a normal person mentally insane?Also you could make someone kill somebody else and to me that means they were just a weapon,a bit like soldiers,terroists and maybe abused people they all have to kill for what they think is freedom.

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  13. it really all depends on what aspect ur lookin at it from.

    socially.... its a mix. i have the choice to go kill someone, and i have the choice not too. but at that point, they dont have the choice to live or die.

    scientifically... no. theoretically, if you know the position and velocity (which is possible becuase of the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle, but is you COULD) then you could calculate the position and velocity of any particle at any given time. with that, it was calculatable that i would be sitting here typing about this. Fate, as it were. this is, of course, if ur using Newtonian Physics and ignoring everything we know about M-theory, more specifically black holes.

  14. Black magic has serious repercussions, you know. If you've heard the monkey paw story, you'll have a general idea of what I mean. However, it also depends on how it is used. There are definitely worse real stories about it, but karma always has a way of biting you in the ass for messing with things that should or should not be. Don't bend the world around you to make it better; the true changes come from within, and spread outwards!

    As far as fate, or even destiny; yes, we are all going to die someday, but we all have something to do first! We have a set path in life, we can either take the easy route or go out of the way to find our true destiny. That involves taking calculated risks which lead to a greater good, and I believe that too many people ignore this path and the dreams they have set! Your dreams: your true goals, I believe; are your destiny...once started on this road it will lead to one thing, everything else that happens merely happens as a result of it.

    If you choose to ignore this path, that is a choice. You also have the choice to do nothing with your life and do nothing to affect or help others. Choices are closely entwined with fate, but only the person walking the path truly chooses what fate they end up with. Your fate is also determined by your choices, but it can also affect you reaching your final goal in life; your destiny...

    And that's all, folks!

  15. Yes, but some of the choices we make also determine our fate...like if you end up with lung cancer from cigarettes: that was your choice to smoke them, and your fate is altered through this. Whereas if you made another choice, you might have possibly died sooner from it in retrospect.

    As far as driving a "normal" person insane? Oh yes, it's quite possible. Once a person begins to question every point of every single aspect of their life, couples it with paranoia and anxiety from this, then starts to get angry about something, there is a good possiblity they can snap and all of the stored up emotions pull them in instead of just shutting down, and they become absorbed in them; "their own world." I also believe that not many people are normal, and there is no set standard for "normal", as even many very smart and successful people are eccentric and many others have personality disorders that make them more succeptable to this.

    Fate doesn't make your choices; your fate is made BY your choices.
  16. Both!!!!!
    And I believe in ME!
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  17. hahhaa, was just joking around with my ideas... but im confused, did you like it or not?? hahaha, that was fuckin bad man.... good point?


    did fate make me ask this question... or did i just want to know and asked? hmm....
  18. Doesn't science disprove free will? I'm not going to argue about a soul or spiritual essence of a person. Humans are made up of matter. The brain is a system of chemicals and this is where our thought process comes from. All things follow basic laws of science these chemicals are no different. So the chemical interactions which create our thoughts, feelings and visual perceptions are following laws of science that dictate what will happen next. So how is this free will instead of a bunch of chemicals and electrolytic reactions occuring in the brain.
    Darwin thought that reason was simply an evolution. So rather than getting big claws and hard shells we got reason. This doesn't make us much different than animals and we can predict behaviour in animals (though only to a certain extent).
    If we're following these basic laws then everything has been predicided. Theoretically in the future we could have someone put into a controlled environment, do a scan on their brain and then predict the rest of their life based on the way in which we know these chemicals will play out.
    It could be that interactions are what create free will (such as you read this and then think of something you wouldn't have before). However, my brain which is thinking this up is just a system of chemicals acting on these principles and so your brain which is percieving it.

    I'd like to believe in free will and it's hard not to, but with the scientific knowledge we currently have it seems unlikely. Though we may in the future find some way in which freewill does exist (we're probably wrong about a lot of what we 'know' now).
  19. You're taking this too far, man. Try lifting yer left arm. That's a chemical reaction, true. But you did control it. It wasn't coincidental.
  20. Yeah but my choice will be the way which the chemicals respond to my reading of what you wrote and the current state of those chemicals.

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