Fascism, Thy Name Is Capitalism.

Corporatism is fascism, make no mistake. But corporatism do not equal capitalism. It might be a result of capitalism, but not a necessary one.

And overt fascism is pretty much not evident in western society. That is not to say a lot of activity do not resemble fascism, it do. Todays Bush Junta, hell, the entire US political-economic infrastructure, smell a lot like fascism.

But in principle and practice, more often than not, the comparison do not hold up.

Just so we are on the same page, here is the definite list of what constitutes fascism:

Let us see how many points coincide with Islam as is practiced today. Fourteen, my oh my...

 

Well, no.

 

Again, no.

The most important parts are the joining of corporate and state power. That is, disabling democracy, labour rights and free press. The rest is just icing on the cake so to speak.

 

This will be long, and I'm sorry. I'll do it comparatively, using three examples:

Norway:

1: Hell yes. We even force our kindergarten and schoolchildren out to march on our constitution-day.
2: Nope, the contrary actually. To the degree that it reeks of Human-rights better-than-thou-ism. Despite certain transgressions regarding separation of state and church, though nothing violent.
3: No.
4: Hehehehe, no. Our military is a joke
5: No
6: No, though that is rather recent as the state monopoly on broadcasting was lifted in the late eighties.
7: National what? Oh, protecting against hordes of swedes... Goddamned swedes!
8: Ah, yes. Still got a state church, though it won't last long...
9: To a degree yes. Then again, most really powerfull corporations in Norway are actually owned wholly or partially by the government, and the profits find themselves sunk into the state-budget, not some private entity.
10: No. Encouraged actually.
11: See 10.
12: Not really. More focus on rehabilitation.
13: To a degree yes. Small country, everyone knows everyone when you get to a certain level.
14: No.

USA:

1: To a degree, but not as common as say Norway.
2: No, though not all agree on the death penalty, and certainly not the unlawful (important, unlawful) detainment of suspected terrorists (aka randoms with a turban).
3: Yes.
4: Yes, but it is important to remember this is a result of 50 years of cold war. A dedication we are all grateful of.
5: No.
6: No, at least in principle. It is worrying thought that so much media power is gathered in so few corporate hands. Not exactly the definition of free competition as dictated by capitalism. Time to bust some near monopolies?
7: With the Bush junta in place, yes.
8: Nnnnnnngh. No in principle, yes in Bushist practice.
9: Oh yes, the US electorate and political system is nothing but.
10: In principle no, but in practice yes to a degree.
11: No.
12: Hell yes.
13: No, not really. Ofcourse, varying cabinets prefer people of their own kind, but if that is cronyism, then so is democracy. Nobody expects expertise from politicos, just loyalty.
14: A doubting no. The two last elections have been iffy...

Islam:

1 through 14: Yes.

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Sooooo, let the flaming begin

 

EDIT:

If any of you are really interested in this topic I would recommend reading Leon Trotsky: Pacifism as the Servant of Imperialism (1917).

Actually you could read all of Trotsky's writings... There's a reason why this hombre got capped.

/EDIT

I realize you just gave your evaluation, however this is how my evaluation of the United States would go. (From this criteria they are about 75% fascist)

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Yes. I haven't been to Norway, but American's are extremely patriotic....

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Yes... Have you taken a look at Abu Graib?... And what is the percentage of american's in prision... Isn't it the highest in the world?

It also happens on the civil level as well, I just recently had a friend go through US customs, and he was tortured and held in a holding cell for a month, with no charge, because they suspected he was a terrorist (he was just returning from the middle east where he was acting as a mediator between the Jews and Arabs).

Coincidentally, a few months ago he was killed in a hospital. Official cause of death 'suicide', 'hung himself in the washroom'. Unfortunately there was no evidence of a strangulation death.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Yes. This is very obvious. Actually I was watching TV yesterday when a congressman said, "We need to focus our attention on the US Canadian border. There are actually more terrorists in Canada than anywhere else in the world. I think that the Canadian US border deserves far more attention than the US Mexico border."

I nearly dropped my glass of water... I couldn't believe somebody could actually get away with saying that.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Yes. Does this even need to be elaborated on? Currently the US dollar has been sliding and the Real Estate market is going to the shitter. Yet funding for the war hasn't been cut.

The US spends more on their military than anybody else in the world.


5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

Somewhat.

What was the main thing that bush was looking to do in the last election? Remember his tyraids on homosexuality?

i haven't noticed them attacking womans rights though.


6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

100% yes... Remember when the Dixie Chicks said they were sorry to be from the same state as Bush?

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Yep... See Number 3. And remember all the rhetoric about building a fence to seperate US and Mexico.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Nothing like communist Russia... However you can see a huge right wing christian influence in this government so I would say that this is a yes... Just more covert.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Yep

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

I haven't seen or heard of this happening.

So no.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

Nope haven't seen that.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

Yes. Doesn't bush hold the record for putting the most people to death, as governor of Texas.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Haha. Definitely.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Hard to prove... But I would say yes.

 

#6
Embedded journalists in wartime.
Paris Hilton.
Abysmal state of modern journalism.

#14
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/hackingdemocracy/
Proven that voting machines in widespread use can be easily compromised.

 

great, america is fascist

 

@HighGrowMan

Basing an opinion on something just because you have not seen it or heard of it is naive, because even though you have not been made aware of it, that does not mean it does not exist.

 

They pull as much shit as they can get away with. No way in hell they could suppress women's rights, or intellectualism, they're smart enough to know how to do it that much better this time. Base it off of the USSR, America looks kinda like that, except the 2.0 updated version.

 

14 out of 14 by my count, yes it's true, the US brought the philosophy together with rampant imperialism and corporatism, threw in some nuclear weaponry and now we don't even feel the need to apologoze for what we steal. If Hitler had Hydrogen bombs before the war in europe broke out, there would've been an alliance made outright, with the USA on the Reich side.

And if you check our history, you'll see the name of a family that sold to and collaborated with the reich was Bush. Like that, we became the home for displaced nazis at the end of the war, and it doesn't take long for fascists to fuck up political systems, that's what they do.

 

The US is dangerously close to full fledged corporatism, but there are some principles jotted down in your constitution that makes at least open fascism impossible. In order for the US to get that far, the constitution need to be lifted by say marshall law. In effect introducing a dictatorship.

As for point 6: Eventhough a lot of mediapower is gathered on corporate hands, the press is still free. Mainstream media (and especially TV news and national newspapers) might have an agenda of furthering status quo to serve their money-masters, but there is more than enough actual free expression in the US if you just bother to look. And there is no way to shut it down unless you also outlaw free expression, one of the cornerstones of your constitution. A principle that have been upheld by your judiciary system time and again, no matter how right wing and conservative the judge(s) might have been.

 

scary shit

 

Of course, however I was simply trying to give my opinion on actual events, that I have heard of or seen.

As for the US and Natzi ties, it's pretty scary. Most people don't know how well the Natzi party did in the US leading up to WWII. There is a reason why the US didn't join the war right away.... There is a long list of American sponsors to the Natzi regime. These include (but are not limited to) General Motors, Ford, Remmington and IBM.

Another one of the major sponsors was also a Steel Corporation which was operating out of Poland (of which Prescott Bush had ties to). Actually, this steel corporation was one of the primary users of the concentration camp workers and with much of it's work being done at Auschwitz.

After the US entered the war, it should have been considered illegal for Bush to maintain his shares in this corporation; however it was overlooked, and they allowed him to sell his shares, and the money made it's way into a trust, which eventually turned into millions of dollars.

Now... this is just the american involvment during WWII. After WWII, it is common knowledge that many of the Natzi scientists were taken to the US. Actually, the one doctor at Aushwitz who experimented on children, and mothers (forget his name right now) was seen in New York after the war.

I have read eye witness testimony stating that he went to work for the CIA after the war; continuing his work experimenting on children and mothers, in the US. Actually, this testimony comes from one of his victims that reported that she was held in a cage (along with other children) and he was the lead scientist that was systematically breaking down their psyche, in order to create a multiple personality.

These people that have the multiple personality, are then used to commit crimes and assasinations; because they can be interrogeted and the interogator will only be able to talk to the one personality, which will be completly unaware of any wrong doing; while the other personality, can be triggered in order to commit terrorist acts.

Edit: The doctors name was Dr. Josef Mengele