F1 hybrids are better? Why breed new stable strains

Discussion in 'Cannabis Breeding' started by WormGrower, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. My idea here is that there is no point in trying to create a stable strain. The odds are that there will be multiple phenos and most people even the "professionals" at the pot shops think they know but really don't know how to create a stable strain. So breeding two plants will create an F1 hybrid plant, meaning that all of the plants will be exactly the same, grow faster and yield more. Would you buy seeds that are F1 hybrids knowing that after a while this strain will be dead and gone? I guess on the upside you get to try new strains all the time. Seems growing out F1 hybrids is the best option

     

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  2. Interesting points.

    How exactly have you determined who knows how to create a "stable" strain? What criteria are you using for "stable"? Do you mean something that is homozygous across all gene loci? Or perhaps something that looks phenotypically homozygous?


    Are you asserting that homozygousity is the most desirable genotype format? Do you think that F1's are automatically going to exhibit phenotypic uniformity or should? Or that they automatically yield more than parental lines?


    Curious as to your line of reasoning.


    thanks

     
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  3. I'll try to keep up with you, I get the feeling you're a few steps above me. A stable strain meaning when bred together will create homozygous plants across the bored, completely uniform every time they are bred no matter how many generations down the line. I base my statement that growers don't create stable strains based off of personal experience, even famous breeders that I buy from reputable dealers will have inconsistent strains. I buy their seeds and breed for stock but end up with completely different phenos.
    I am suggesting based off of Mendel's work with peas that the F1 generation from two different strains will all by homozygous. Exactly the same growth, smell, taste, high etc. But any subsequent breeding (like traditional breeders do in the search of a stable "New" strain) will cause heterozygous plants.
    Hybrid Vigor- Heterosis, hybrid vigor, or outbreeding enhancement, is the improved or increased function of any biological quality in a hybrid offspring. The adjective derived from heterosis is heterotic. An offspring exhibits heterosis if its traits are enhanced as a result of mixing the genetic contributions of its parents.
    What do you think?

     

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  4. #4 EyeC, Jan 8, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2016


    Several things come to mind upon reading what you wrote. For starters it seems your experiences with buying or obtaining seeds is fine. That's a good start. Now you say you are then taking those seeds (i assume you are getting IBL/Heirloom cultivars) growing out plants and then crossing those male and female plants together. The result of those pairings you have selected then do not produce the parental phenotypes? Is this correct?


    If you are ordering F1 seeds, then the F2 and F3 generations will show maximum phenotypic diversity/divergence. Meaning they will be the least likely generations to look like the parents if you were starting with F1's. With IBL's you can and will get some diversity, it just tends to be much less phenotypically, but that does not mean there isn't a fair bit of diversity within that gene line.


    This is a bit of a long read, but bear with me if you would and see if it does not address at least some of your interests about F1's or how important phenotypic versus genotypic diversity are for population health.




    "breeding and male selection by zamalito
    \t\t\t\t\t\t
    \t\t\t\t\t\t\t_copy and paste from the great zamalito

    Advancements and Research In The Field Of Cannabis Male Selection
    By The Researchers At Breeders Choice Organization (BCO)

    We decided to create our company, Breeders Choice, to address several
    problems which we feel have become endemic in the Cannabis seed
    industry. At the forefront of these problems is that many breeding
    houses are actually first and foremost commercial growers. When it comes
    to female selection, this isn't really a problem. One of the goals of
    the commercial grower is to find successful and marketable female
    plants, and commercial growers can be very good at finding desirable
    females. Male selection, however, is quite different, and by no means
    compatible with commercial growing.

    We view breeding of Cannabis as two parts art, with one part science,
    and one part spirituality. As with any art form, a truly great artist
    must be creative, have a sound technique, confidence in their abilities,
    a sense of aesthetics, and new innovative ideas. These are also the
    qualities that make a great breeder. The scientific aspect, I liken to
    musical theory. Science provides us with a language to communicate our
    ideas with our peers, a method to prove what techniques are effective,
    and on occasion, a muse or source of new ideas. The spiritual aspect
    helps put us in touch with the plants we work with. Cannabis is
    interesting, in that when we consume the plant, it speaks with us. Some
    plants are great teachers, and some plants are bland without much to
    say.

    However, this concept that breeding is an art, has lead many to move in a
    destructive path away from quantifying traits, and studying the complex
    relationships which traits have to each other across individuals, and
    populations, and from a single generation to multiple generations. Each
    of these divisions are sentient beings within themself. The individual
    is the culmination of the many generations before it, and functions to
    pass its genetic material successfully. The population is just as much
    alive and dynamic as the individual, and is just as much a result of its
    DNA as the individual. The goal of the population is to create balance,
    allowing the most successful individuals to be the most successful but
    simultaneously allow for diversity to be maintained allowing for
    adaptation to new and changing ecosystems. While the individual is just a
    tool of the population that in the case of cannabis typically only
    survives through one reproductive cycle. The population survives
    forever, unless every individual fails to pass its genetic material on
    to another year. Over the many millions of years before the arrival of
    man, populations have evolved ways to protect future adaptability while
    undergoing thriving conditions and, lacking conditions/bottlenecks both
    of which can limit diversity without systems in place to protect it.


    Many of us who were growing the staples of the Dutch seed industry,
    Skunk #1, Northern Lights, and Haze, in the 1980's, before and shortly
    after their arrival in Holland, remember remarkable plants. Sadly, these
    lines have been declining ever since, and most versions available are
    only a shadow of their pre-Dutch ancestors. The improvements and
    declines in the desirability of these lines are the most accurate
    barometer of the selection abilities of the seed industry, and its
    capability of line improvement. Having had more than a few glimpses into
    the selection techniques of most of the well known seed companies, we
    have come to the conclusion that the single greatest cause of this
    decline is poor male selection.

    I'm sure many of you are wondering, how can this be an accurate
    barometer of the industry's abilities, when the potency of the seeds in
    circulation are constantly improving? Well, the answer to this lies in
    heterosis/hybrid vigor, and the constant introduction of new genes from
    outside sources. This isnt line improvement, and definitely isn't how
    you create new and unique breeding tools. Without someone, somewhere
    exercising proper selection, eventually the source of new and unique
    breeding tools will run dry, and the quality will begin to decline
    across the board.

    The single most important thing any breeder whose goal is to produce
    desirable varieties of sinsemilla can do is to familiarize themselves
    with males. The pollen donor contribute heavily to the floral traits of
    their female offspring. However, males give more subtle clues about what
    they pass on to their female offspring. This being the case, every
    breeder should spend not only more time studying their male plants, but
    also spend exponentially more time finding good males, as opposed to
    females.

    Even in the best natural environments, or sweet spots, which encourage
    higher potency, without constant selection, cannabis always has a
    tendency to revert to low potency. It may vary based on the original
    germplasm and the climate the seedlines are acclimating to, but an
    unselected seedline will almost without fail return to low potency,
    frequently below 4% THC, but sometimes a little higher depending on the
    original stock and the climate. Low potency is the default position of
    the species, with regards to potency.



    Different Techniques For Different Projects

    The first consideration one needs to make when planning a breeding
    project, is to define exactly what type of breeding project they are
    trying to proceed with.

    Surprising to most people, conservation efforts, where one is trying to
    keep in tact, as much as possible, heirloom or landrace lines, tend to
    be the most technically difficult. It is the nature of genetics to be
    ing a constant state of flux, adapting to a particular environment. The
    nature of preservation breeding is to temporarily halt this state of
    flux, and this requires large populations of two thousand plants (1000
    of each sex) minimum, fully completing their reproductive stage. You
    have to remember that passing every gene on to the following generation
    isn't enough. A population isnt just a set of genes, but is also how
    frequently these genes occur within the population. This is what makes
    the population alive and in a state of flux, and determines how the
    population responds to natural and unnatural selective pressure.

    Hybridization tends to require the fewest parents, but as always it is
    best to make selections from as large of a population as possible, to
    find individuals with high specific combining abilities (SCA). All too
    often, the paint by numbers philosophy of breeding is applied where the
    breeder is more interested in crossing names, than actually applying the
    art of selection and the analysis or testing of combining abilities. To
    borrow a term from physics, individuals are either "in phase" with each
    other or "out of phase". Similar to a meeting of two electromagnetic
    waves, when individuals are "in phase", they amplify each others
    strengths and compliment each other. When out of phase, their strengths
    conflict, or their weaknesses amplify.

    Phenotype fixing is the more common route used to create an inbred line
    (IL). Phenotype fixing is the type of breeding where the goal is to
    create a line which reproduces a particular phenotype as frequently as
    possible. The lines which try to put an elite cutting into seed form, as
    well as the work of DJshort belong in this category. Frequently, these
    projects involve one parent of each sex per generation and involve
    multiple backcrosses to an individual which reflects an ideal. They are
    rarely sustainable as populations, either because of extensive
    bottlenecking, or because of a high degree of heterosis causing the
    desirable phenotype to be fixed for only one generation. The problems
    with this technique are mainly because of the backcrossing and 2 parent
    per generation breeding style. The unnecessary removal of alleles which
    have no negative effect on desirability, brought by the use of small
    numbers of parents results in a lack of vigor and the


    Population conditioning is a term we coined to refer to a type of
    breeding we try to focus on. The goal of this type of breeding isn't
    necessarily to make every plant of an identical phenotype, but to
    produce noticeable sustainable improvements with every generation, only
    removing traits which have a negative impact on the desirability of the
    line as a whole, and only selecting for traits which have a positive
    impact. The goal of our work is it to create genuine heirlooms and
    breeding tools which are unique, yet very desirable on their own. When
    applied in a hybrid breeding program, the conditioned lines create true
    heterosis, from being populations which never met before.

    Our approach to population conditioning goes like this. With 1 X 1
    incrossing the goal focus is to do the vast majority of the work in the
    f2 and f3 generations, with every other generation requiring a less
    substantial population to make selections from. With population
    conditioning it is kind of the opposite. In the f1 and f2, you can get
    away with using fairly small populations and open pollinating them, and
    as the generation numbers go up, so does the population size. The goal
    here is to Gradually eliminate undesirable traits, while not only
    keeping the desirable genes, but also genes which have no noticeable
    bearing on phenotype. These genes which have no noticeable bearing on
    phenotype, might not be immediately noticeable, but provide most of the
    combining potential when used as a breeding tool. After the population
    has been conditioned into a sustainable heirloom quality population
    (typically somewhere between f8 and f13, remember since multiple parents
    are being used, the population requires more generations to stabilize),
    we then begin to start working on splitting up the line into fixing
    particular phenotypes. These fixed phenotype lines do lack as much
    sustainability as the conditioned population line, but they do have
    breeding potential. Also, due to the undesirable traits being removed,
    the fixing of the phenotype can be done fairly rapidly, and with more
    potential of overall desirability.


    What distinguishes the good projects of this sort from the more lacking
    landrace based IL's is the use of heirlooms which meet the quality
    standards of the old legends, as well as a very strict and proven male
    selection technique. It is one thing to grow out 20 seeds from an
    unimpressive line you were told were colombian gold bagseed, that flower
    in twelve weeks and cross it to an Afghani #1. It is a whole different
    story to select a 40 week flowering Colombian heirloom collected in
    Colombia that produces a truly legendary psychedelic high and cross it
    to well selected Mazar heirloom from the region of origin. In this
    instance, a new legend can be produced with unique qualities of its own.

    Of course, we work with what we can get, and not everyone has access to
    the legends of old. We hope to change this. Now, even the best landrace
    based breeding materials often need some work to be consistently
    legendary, and consistent performing breeding tools. This is yet another
    use for the population conditioning approach, but judgement must be
    exercised so as not to remove to much of the diversity or desirability
    of the line before breeding with it. Also, any landrace or heirloom line
    must be preserved using as large of an open pollination as possible
    before trying to improve the line with either incrossing or outcrossing.


    Numbers Games:

    Cannabis is a wind pollinated species, and as such, even the lines which
    appear to be heavily consistent, there is still significant genetic
    diversity. This means that no line is safe from improvement brought by
    good selective breeding, or ruin, brought by poor selection. As a whole,
    the species tends not to be compatible with small packets of ten seeds,
    and little good can come from populations this small. The high cost of
    seeds has caused us to nurse every single seed, having a detrimental
    effect on the ability of seeds to undergo adversity during germination.

    Small populations are a relatively new thing to the cannabis species.
    All of the heirloom strains were grown field scale, and many parents
    were selected from very large populations. Originally in Thailand, there
    were farmers who produced seed for the rest of the community. This was
    the time of the great Thai herbs, which are now on their last limb.
    During this period, hermaphrodites were not anywhere near as common in
    Thai populations as they are now. In a kilo, you might find 2-3 seeds in
    the high quality Thai sticks. When the demand for Thai cannabis grew,
    the growers who provided seed for their community, ceased to do so, and
    growers started to pick seeds out of their female crops to grow the next
    generation, unintentionally breeding for hermaphrodites.

    The size of the population you grow, is in essence, the size of the
    breeder's pallet. A limited pallet not only limits the improvements that
    can be made, but also limits what can be done creatively/artistically.
    On the other hand, when a breeder has no effective selection technique
    or is incapable of recognizing the differences in the plants, the size
    of the pallet doesn't really matter.

    The number of parents selected from the population to produce the
    following generation is also very important. The more parents selected,
    the greater the genetic diversity passed on to the following generation.
    It is important to note that genetic diversity isn't always a good
    thing, nor is it always a bad thing, it depends on what you are doing.
    Also, the greater the number of parents needed to accomplish the desired
    effect, the greater the size of the population that must be grown to
    still select plants which meet your standards for desirability. We on a
    rare occasion will select one male and one female for one or two
    generations between the p1 and f3. Cannabis being a wind pollinated
    species, populations don't seem to respond as well when this technique
    is applied for two generations in a row. We only apply this method when
    either the individuals that meet our standards are very difficult to
    find, or there is simply too much diversity, such as the f2 from a 3-way
    hybrid.

    Since a greater number of parental offspring, passes on more genetic
    diversity to the resultant offspring, the risk of deselecting genes
    unnecessarily which either have a positive or limited effect on
    desirability as well as the risk of recessive genes which cause
    deformities and negative traits is greatly reduced. By removing genes
    which have little to no immediately perceived effect on consistency or
    desirability, the breeder may inadvertently be reducing vigor and
    resistance to a pathogen or pest which the line has not yet been
    exposed. The alignment of recessive alleles from unnecessary
    bottlenecking and closely related gene pool is the primary cause of
    weird mutant looking plants, and deformities. Although it does increase
    the number of generations required to achieve a consistent seedline, a
    higher number of parents limits the liability of inbreeding, solidifies
    advancements, and actually hastens the fixing of rare traits when done
    properly.



    Tools Of The Trade

    The first tool that should be in the arsenal of any breeder is a good
    digital camera, capable of taking high quality macros, with minimal
    distance between the lens and the object being photographed. The camera
    allows for close up examination of gland types, pattern and structure,
    and also allows for cataloging of traits, and specimens as well as
    direct side by side comparison on your computer.

    After a digital camera, and for many of the same reasons is a good
    binocular microscope, of the type used for making dissections, and
    capable of taking digital images. This will allow in depth study of both
    glandular and nonglandular trichomes, as well as tissue samples.

    A refractometer/brix meter is a tool used by growers of wine grapes.
    These are used to measure the contents of the plant juices, primarily
    sugars. This isn't an extremely important tool in cannabis breeding, as
    much as it facilitates cultivation, but does allow one a glimpse of the
    metabolic processes in the plant. Any clues that one can associate with
    desirable phenotypes early on is useful, as it helps to thin plants at
    an earlier stage, thus increasing the size of the seed population, the
    breeder can start.

    Thin Layer Chromatography tests (TLC) such as the Cannalyze (TM) are not
    very effective in quantitative analysis, but when the samples are taken
    using very precisely measured samples using milligram accurate scales
    for measurement can be effective for comparative potency. Although they
    might not achieve a precise ratio of THC to plant matter, all a breeder
    really needs to know is how potent they are in relation to one another.
    Where TLC really comes in handy is in the use of breeding medicinal
    cultivars with limited recreational potential, because of its ability to
    recognize the presence of various cannabinoids. Unfortunately these
    tests aren't sensitive enough to measure accessory cannabinoids in the
    male flowers so using them for comparative floral potency between males
    isn't the best idea. Testing male leaf material and female flowers for
    high CBD levels is where this method really shines. Unfortunately CBD
    has little use in recreational cannabis, due to it blocking the effects
    of THC. All of the commercially available varieties from the many
    cannabis seed companies are very low in CBD levels, despite what they
    may advertise.

    Antibody testing methods such as ELISA where a sample is applied to a
    microplate coated with antibodies which specifically detect THC, are
    extremely accurate and sensitive. Unfortunately, to get an accurate
    percentage of THC concentrations several different samples of known
    concentration must be used and put into an inexpensive or free version
    of data plotting software. If no samples of confirmed purity are known,
    then this method can only be used for comparative results. Comparative
    results, are however, good enough for selecting the samples which test
    the highest among a population.

    Having a method to gauge THC or other cannabinoid levels is great, but
    cannot fully replace an accurate scale, and some rolling papers. THC and
    other cannabinoid concentrations do not directly translate into
    perceived potency. For this reason, there is no replacing a subjective
    bioassay. Many compounds from diverse groups such as sesquiterpenes,
    monoterpenes and other VOC substances such as, aromatic compounds,
    non-terpene hydrocarbons, esters and organic sulfides, as well as their
    combustion by-products. Smoking of males is somewhat controversial among
    breeders. Some breeders say that since males have a different ratio of
    glandular types, the high does not directly translate into the female
    offspring, and this is true to some extent. Others say that males are
    simply too weak to get a quantifiable effect. We do have ceilingless,
    soaring, and psychedelic males that pass these traits to their offspring
    quite consistently. Many of our selected males, would make my smoking
    tray before many types of hashish. They hardly ever taste as good and
    are never as potent after one or two hits, but their ceilingless,
    soaring effect is unquestionable, and this is what you look for when
    smoking males. Another thing you look for when smoking males is a
    substantial increase between the shoots and floral leaves over the fan
    leaves. Plants which have a more similar potency across the whole plant,
    tend to not be as potent overall.



    Creating Diversity Through Inbreeding

    At first this sounds like an alien concept. After all, how can you
    create diversity in a line without adding new genes? Well, there are
    different types of diversity. There is phenotypic diversity, allelic
    frequency, and allelic diversity. For example, true f1 crosses are known
    to be very consistent and rarely produce a huge diversity of
    phenotypes, but should be genetically diverse. The f2 of the same cross
    should have less genetic diversity than the f1, but due to the
    appearance of the recessive phenotypes, more genetic diversity can be
    physically expressed, showing phenotypes all the way from one parental
    line to the other and everywhere in between, as well as new traits.

    A line can have 50 different alleles (genes) for a given loci giving the
    loci a diverse array of genes, but if 49 of those only occur in 1% of
    the population, then the particular loci will be fairly homogenous. This
    is the difference between allelic frequency and diversity, and shows
    how they effect homogeneity. If the breeder increases the frequency of
    these rare alleles, the pallet of the breeder and the diversity commonly
    expressed in the line also broadens.

    By selecting parents from the fringes of the population and rare
    phenotypes, diversity and vigor can be created where none existed
    before. This is where population conditioning comes into effect. In 1X 1
    incrosses, rare phenotypes rarely pass on their traits, but when 5
    parents of each sex are used which all display the same rare pheno, the
    trait tends to be fixed more heavily into the resultant offspring.



    The Nuts And Bolts Of Male Selection

    The first thing anyone should do when working with a new potential line
    in a breeding project is to familiarize yourself with the strain. Look
    at how the male phenotypes show similarity to female phenotypes and
    which phenotypes most consistently produce the traits which you seek.
    Detail is key, look at whether plants male plants produce glandular
    trichomes on the unopened flowers and the floral leaves. What variance
    is there in the effects of smoked males and trichome production in
    reproductive regions, and how is this variance similar to the
    females?Most adequately potent varieties of cannabis produce a row of
    glands on the anthers, the banana shaped and colored portion of the male
    flower. Take particular note on the size, shape, frequency, and density
    of the anther glands.

    The tricky thing about selection of both males and females is that
    unless you are working with a mapped genome, and have the tools to
    analyze the genetic code, you have to make your selections based on
    phenotype, as in the physical manifestation of genetic traits. However,
    what makes a good parent is its genes, not physical traits. There are
    many things that get in the way of a genotype's physical expression, and
    a female plant which might be the best plant you have ever come across,
    may very well be a mediocre breeding plant. Many facets of the
    environment which are seemingly innocuous can play a huge role in the
    expression of a plant's genes. I have seen many outdoor plants which
    produced some of the best sativa dominant flowers I've ever grown, but
    when grown indoors be completely bland and actually lean towards an
    indica. One reason for this is that genes compete for a limited quantity
    and type of resources. If any of those resources aren't present in the
    proper quantity, then some traits might fail to express completely, even
    if the plant was grown perfectly in a different environment.


    It goes without saying, that breeding of wind pollinated plants
    traditionally grown field scale, and breeding of race horses are
    extremely different, but this brings to mind, a horse named Storm Cat.
    Storm Cat ranks among the highest paid athletes in the world, despite
    his racing record which is far from the stuff of legends. But, the
    reason this horse has made so much money for his owners is not because
    he is a great race horse, but because his children are. You see, Storm
    Cat is a stud horse, earning $500,000 per breeding session. His
    offspring have earned almost $100 million dollars on the race track.
    Great breeding plants are similar in this way. They might not be the
    greatest plants to smoke, although they are rarely terrible, but they
    have that magic in their genes which makes their offspring legends.


    This is where the similarities start to end between plant and animal
    breeding. I see it all the time where breeders apply the philosophy of
    pedigree horse, pig, or dog breeding to cannabis, partially out of the
    hype of elite cuttings, and partially out of misapplied logic. With
    cannabis, as I have stated before, the population is a living organism
    just as much as the individual. The population evolves and adapts, and
    populations of the same species compete for niche space just as much as
    individuals do, and like a pack of African wild dogs (another animal
    analogy, I know) the functionality of the population effects its
    survival just as much as that of the individual. On the other hand, with
    pedigree animal breeding, it is almost always all about the individual.
    The mechanics of heredity between the two reflects this. Genetics have
    evolved what we call an "emergent behavior" which is most similar to a
    decision making process ingrained in the genetic code. For example, we
    have seen how plants which exhibit a phenotype, which is rare among it's
    own siblings, are selected for two successive generations of 1 X 1
    incrossing tend not to fix this phenotype in any statistically
    significant manner . This is the reason why elite cuttings tend to make
    mediocre breeding parents, because they often stand out from their
    siblings. However, when you select twenty plants, all exhibiting the
    same phenotype, representing a disproportionate percentage of the
    population exhibiting this phenotype, for two generations, the trait is
    conditioned into a greater portion of the population.


    Matricliny and patricliny, are perhaps the two most overlooked and
    misunderstood facets of cannabis breeding. I believe I have this concept
    pinned down, but like many facets of this species, the more I believe I
    have it pinned down, the less I believe I can predict it. That said,
    one of the most important things to observe when studying test crosses
    made from a specific line or parent, is to very closely observe which
    traits the plant tends to pass, with specific focus on the pigmentation
    traits, terpenes, and the psychoactive effects. These traits in
    particular are not effected by the natural laws of heritance, and will
    be proving and studying the mechanics of this more in the future.

    An important part of breeding is to find clues in the phenotype which
    help determine both the combining abilities and the genotype of the
    plant being examined. For example, if one plant is very strong despite
    having little resin, and another has heavy production of resin but less
    potent, then combining them might possibly produce plants with lots of
    potent resin, thus being more potent than either parent. There are some
    traits which can be used to determine the genotype you seek but have
    little to do with the actual phenotype, and may even be less effected by
    the environment. Finding traits such as these that have been proven
    through testing are really crucial in developing a great male selection
    technique. This is the most secretive aspect of our proprietary
    selection technique, but I can give some examples to help illustrate
    exactly what I am talking about. For example, certain aspects of the
    leaf surface can give clues to the genotype regarding glandular trichome
    production even more so than the glandular trichome production itself,
    since glandular trichome production doesn't happen much on males, and on
    females doesn't occur until late and is greatly effected by
    environment. The leaf surface traits however, aren't effected much by
    environment, and are visible with a binocular microscope from the very
    earliest stages.



    In Conclusion

    Over the coming months, HHF and I will be expanding on this and other
    subjects here with a series of articles, and sharing as we learn. In
    summation, this article can be summed in a few sentences. First of all,
    observation is key, as breeders, it is crucial to pour over every
    nanometer of both individuals and populations, and how these change when
    environments and light cycles change. Second of all, use or invent any
    tool to possibly measure and quantify every trait you observe. Finally,
    "when in doubt, grow more out", never underestimate the importance of
    population size."
     
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  5. Good read. Thanks
     
  6. blew my fucking brain cells thanks [​IMG]
     
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  7. This was a great read! Thank you!
     
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  8. Glad everyone is enjoying it. I thought it was a well written and thought provoking and sensible article. :)
     
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  9. It is definitely well written and thought provoking but I am going to have to reread it at least a few more times to totally understand it haha!

    Amazing how much goes into the process!

    ``\_(^_-)_/``
     
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  10. Thanks for this! This confirms theories of mine I've had. Will definitely put my ideas to use now

    Sent from my XT1585 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
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  11. @EyeC you make some very salient points but your concern with dioecious males in breeding seems a bit short-sighted since monoecious plants are easily created from dioecious females. Hence, there is virtually no need for dioecious males in the breeding process unless males are desired in the final product, e.g. for hempseed varieties. If males will be consistently be rogued out, why include them at all? It's not like pollen production/dispersal (primary phenotypic traits that males could be selected for) is important to crop production of female flowers, after all. This is how other dioecious species, such as beets or spinach, are selected, since seed is not ferminized and thus males need to produce just as well as females in the field, so they need to be involved in the breeding process.

    I think your point is that many breeders do not use dioecious pollen for breeding (only for multiplication/feminization), in which case dioecious male selection is probably far more important than many breeders think.
     
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