Everything we ever knew about the history of the world........

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by WestCoastDragon, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. #1 WestCoastDragon, Nov 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2012
    Is just told through paintings and writing

    ....sure archeological evidence has uncovered vast amounts of historical evidence, that you can't deny.

    But, if you really think about it, what we know about history is just a connection through major events
    ie: civil war...blah blah blah.....reconstruction...blah blah blah....industrial revolutions...blah blah blah ww1 (and a pitter patter of small events that some people know about, but remain ignored by the general population )

    what about those years that never fall in between anything, who knows what couldve happened in some random 1767 year, there is know way for sure everything out of everything is recorded, who knows how much history we have yet to find or may never find (and even then majority of historic recordings are based off western european/asian perspectives, whats not to say something amazing happened in latin america or africa?)

    sure we have these movies of thousands of historical events, but in reality, can we really assume ancient greece looks the way we imagine it to be, even if men like Plato and Socrates describe it, but that's just one man's perspective, whose to say there was some influential philosopher out there wasn't even more influencing that plato/socrates but was killed right before anyone got the chance to write about him? (thucydides couldnt have been the only "historian"

    (im only talking about history before the invention of real photography, video etc)
    thoughts?
     
  2. In actuality, humans know very little past what we experience.
     
  3. it's true. history doesn't tell us that much, but what else are we going to do? ignore it? it's better to learn what we can and leave it at that.
     
  4. True...very true

    but it's just a thought....

    like you also have to realize much of what know about history and places relies on the historical generalizations depicted through art and writing

    ROME = gladiators, some guy named cesar, big arena, big empire, etc

    World War 2: Evil German Nazi's vs Crazy radical communist russians vs suicidal and highly disciplined japanese troops vs the good ole blond haired boys in green, shooting through the trenches with thier tommy guns carrying the american flag through the sun (at least the american perspective)

    but there were so many other places/perspectives that could of symbolized the era in many different ways, we just won't ever know...


    so in another thought, some group of people in history could've even written an entirely new religious book (lets call it another bible for instance), but it couldve been lost during a war, natural disaster, etc...and it ACTUALLY COULD'VE HAD PROVE OF IT'S WRITINGS, IE location of key artifacts, tombstone drawings/depictions, drawings in general, etc....

    maybe the old/new testament where just the "lucky" ones....

    :hello:
     
  5. [quote name='"WestCoastDragon"']

    so in another thought, some group of people in history could've even written an entirely new religious book (lets call it another bible for instance), but it couldve been lost during a war, natural disaster, etc...and it ACTUALLY COULD'VE HAD PROVE OF IT'S WRITINGS, IE location of key artifacts, tombstone drawings/depictions, drawings in general, etc....

    maybe the old/new testament where just the "lucky" ones....

    :hello:[/quote]

    I like, I like ...
     
  6. Even if the religious text made it, what makes you think the artifacts would? Unless what you really mean with "proof of it's writings" is proof of God? No doubt that many religious texts and segments have been lost 100% throughout time, but one being lost that actually had proof of God, 0% from the start.
     

  7. lol never did i imply the "proof of god", it couldve just been a different spectrum of relgion we've never heard of, that actually made sense "ie one based off the sun or something"

    or who knows? maybe there is some artifact or text out there we havent found, maybe not proof of god, but maybe jesus, judas, abraham, anyone from the bible....the earth is a huge place, we barely know our oceans and we are discovering new species every year.

    meh, im just saying- the bible has existed since roman times, who knows how many people have gotten thier hands on it, changed everything and then just left it around while they died, unrecorded in history.......

    but i don't want to get too into the religious aspects, that's all a what if...

    it just irks me everytime i read history and assume i know it all, when in reality all we know are facts, or assumed sequences of events....
     
  8. Past history was written and controlled by those with the power to control it....

    Entire portions of history have been altered by book burnings, ethnic "cleansings", false information...

    Hell, there was a time in Italy when corrupt power literally tried to wipe an era from existence through destruction of books, art, and people.... the church attempted to purge science from existence.... the illuminati (what it originally was, not modern conspiracy) was formed essentially due to the church wanting knowledge in the hands of the few and that knowledge be based solely off what their religion believed, and the brightest people were forced into hiding or were prisoners of religion (da vinci being one of those people)


    Now a days, with the internet and otherwise.... its a game of misinformation vs truth. Both sides will be out there for all to see, but which side to believe is a completely different story... full of lies and nonsense
     
  9. What ifs can get you confused and disoriented because even if you've imagined something a million times, you may not have imagined it correctly once. Don't let it irk you, go with whatever makes the most sense to you with the evidence present. Imagine the possibilities, but don't get hung up on the what ifs.
     
  10. PS - Religion existed before God, Jesus, Judas, Abraham, anyone from the bible. Some cultures worshiped the Sun as a god, some even attached a name with reality, like Zeus and Jupiter. That's why I figured you meant proof of God because that seems to be the scheme you're attached to.

    Like I said, no doubt a good many religious documents have been lost forever. Even ones from before Roman and Biblical times. Finding proof of any figure in the Bible would be like finding Zeus' lightning bolt.
     

  11. that's what is exactly bugging me, lol considering i do alot of research (especially for these college classes and shit) but what i do realize is everything is either biased or fact, but even that can be a bit off...

    i guess that's why we just learn about the major events, the basics
     
  12. lol yeah your right, i tend to get hung up but i try to think objectively (try lol)

    but yeah i totally forgot to include the pagan religions- silly me :rolleyes:-

    but i guess in a religious aspect it includes even those, but in a modern context, such idealogies are now just myths ie: ancient greek gods are now just backdrops for cgi films/commercialized entities driven by story when in reality they were worshipped just as jesus is worshipped today...

    thus...what can truly be believed?

    another point....
    - we tend to learn about history, like stated earlier, in a sequence of events- ie Greek (hellanistic) society- bam! ancient rome- bam middle ages! - bam industrilized america

    but if your really think about it....a shit ton of years are spread out between them
    hell the Roman Empire lasted 500 years! to us, that's like nothing considering the way we are taught to percieve it but 500 years? that's 5 lifetimes...give or take...

    thus, in reality it seems as if history is kind of boring...sure we look at these events as "omg wow, i wish i could go back in time and see that"

    but the same logic can be said about people 300 years from now...

    "oh wow! i wish i can go back in time and witness 9/11 (not that anyone would)" but it doesnt seem as " amazing" as the death of julius cesar (which i do think it was, i mean 9/11 changed soooo much about this world, but history comes and goes, we mourn and move on, the same probably happened in ancient history"

    sure.....at some point in ancient history, there was this drama unfolding with julius cesar, assisinated by disloyal senators, sparking the entire fall of the republic, birth of an empire...
    sounds EPIC- but would the poor rural farmer in rome really care at the time?
    just how some pooor rural famer in nebraska really cared (honestly)....

    major events only involve a fraction of the population, spread out over lifetimes.....so much could or maybe didnt happen in those unrecorded years, that's where im getting at i guess
     
  13. It's "bam" into the next era because you're given the gist of it all and if something sticks out that you like, dig into it and learn about those 500 years.. Like in the 300 years from now, there probably will be people would wish they could go back and see 9/11 for the sake of curiosity, I know I wouldn't mind going back and seeing many pretty horrific events just to know. So I am sure that there would be people wanting to actually see the event to see if it's how it's been told to them, like us with our past.

    Sounds like you're starting to learn about those 500 years and getting more in depth but got bored by it, but learned (or could have) so much. You probably thought "if what I knew about Roman times was wrong, what else is?" then smoked some weed.
     
  14. [quote name='"Mantikore"']It's "bam" into the next era because you're given the gist of it all and if something sticks out that you like, dig into it and learn about those 500 years.. Like in the 300 years from now, there probably will be people would wish they could go back and see 9/11 for the sake of curiosity, I know I wouldn't mind going back and seeing many pretty horrific events just to know. So I am sure that there would be people wanting to actually see the event to see if it's how it's been told to them, like us with our past.

    Sounds like you're starting to learn about those 500 years and getting more in depth but got bored by it, but learned (or could have) so much. You probably thought "if what I knew about Roman times was wrong, what else is?" then smoked some weed.[/quote]

    Lol id love to go back and find out what happened to the uss maine, and whether a japanese sub was sank before and within enough time to have caused pearl harbor....

    Both essentially lead us into wars..... its actually interesting lol... most wars we had controversy over entering or stressful relationships with the enemies of before hand, some random god damn event happens, generally on our soil, that takes us into the war.... coincidence? Art of war? Conspiracy? Who fucking knows
     
  15. lol no actually i thought of this all the time, it just came together last night, when i was watching the news high...

    yes, i do agree, that's why these people called "history majors" specialize in certain era's but even then, your just limited to written/visual sources, in reality i guess is that no one in the present day will ever know the truth behind history, frankly because
    - the past is subjunctive
    - it remains history, people refer to it, some learn, but the human mind moves on, 300 years from now most of the world would believe the iraq war spawned from 9/11 leading to the downfall of Saddam, but much of the internal issues will be overlooked ( no evidence of chemical weapons, 1998 bombings, un resolutions etc)
    - at the end of the day, if you don't actually expierence it, your personal attention to it is pretty low

    personally, i love the weimar republic (for those of you who don't know that's the period in Germany after WW1(1918) right before the Nazis rise in 1933)-so much happened, but itd be interesting to know what really happened in germany that lead to the open ascent of the nazis (not just the given statements of hyperinflation, poor political legitimacy etc-like what really happened during the reichstag fire?)

    it sucks, because reality is subjunctive, therefore every piece of recorded history is a personal perspective of it- thus all these paintings we see of ancient times are just an artists interpretation of it, which is assumed to be of some truth, thus pounded on with generalizations (the idea of togas existing everywere in greece/rome) then accepted as truth....

    just how today- islam is being seen as a more and more violent religion, 100 yrs from now people would read about islam under the assumption "wow who knew such a group of people could be so violent in the name of a god, what a backwards society"

    when in reality, much of that is the american interpretation...
     
  16. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff I wouldn't mind seeing for myself. Like, a lot.. lol

    There is your problem..

    Just because the news is typically corrupted or swayed, doesn't mean all of history is. Some of it, yes. If a leader has his portrait painted by several different artists and they all are pretty similar, we can get a proper idea of the person. You say about togas, I mean I was never taught to believe that that's the only thing they wore, but if someone got that idea, it's because that's all they care to really know. If Roman times interested them, they could look into it and learn what they don't know. We are able to look at different view points even from ancient times and get an idea of what it was like. It might be limited, but that's why you research it yourself if you care to know.

    And with Islam, the American interpretation isn't the world's interpretation.. Unless for some reason everyone but America has died off. I mean I get what you're trying to say, knowledge can be false or corrupted, but it's like you're taking a biased approach to it.
     
  17. truth be told, the only reason im using the american perspective is because
    -it's the global hegemony, whether we agree or not
    - majority of historical hegemonies usually end up interpreting much of the world's outcomes (british empire, russian empire, Nazi germany etc)
    and most people on this site are americans

    but i do know it isnt the one and only perspective, but simply saying,
    the american perspective isnt better than say the "syrian perspective" or the ghanaian perspective
    it's just that the bigger influence usually end up wiriting history anyway (the case with the european dominance of history since the fall of rome)-or as it goes
    "history is written by the winners"
    really, like i said maybe you and i are far more interested in specific areas in time, but other than that alotof shit gets lost/erased or just forgtten/ignored
    ALOT of people don't know what happened in germany after world war 2, other than the whole berlin split thing, the wall, the airlift, the tear down this wall thing lol
    but if you think about it, that's all biased to america/russia (another superpower) at the time anyway..

    i do agree, most leaders painted pictures do fall under perceptions of consistent truth

    lol no i do not watch the news and take it for face value, i honestly watch it sometimes high ebcause it allows me to see what is truly biased, whats fact and whats just plain nonsense
     
  18. No one ever looks at history to solve problems. If they did, there would never be war, hunger, etc. We would understand why things became that way in the first place and put actions in place to prevent circumstances like that. But no one has the patience for that. All life is is a consecutive pattern of phases. Ups and downs. Highs and lows. Look at history. It's all there.
     

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