Eternal/Infinite Universe + Consciousness

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by batenswitch, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. #1 batenswitch, Nov 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2011
    Nobody is certain whether or not the universe as we know it is eternal. It appears something came from nothing but that's illogical. So logically it might be safe to assume that existence has always existed (possibly through the creation and destruction of infinite universes an infinite number of times).

    In any case I ask you folks to consider the implications of an eternal/infinite universe/existence:

    If you assume existence is eternal and infinite, that implies your consciousness (and your body, and EVERYTHING else) as you know it will have existed an infinite number of times. When you die you will simply not exist until you exist again. You will live your life an infinite number of times in an infinite number of ways.

    I suppose the same also applies to the "many-worlds" interpretation of quantum mechanics; the idea that there may be an infinite number of parallel universes out there.

    Just a thought experiment :smoking:
  2. yea I can go on forever about infinite parallel universes...get it? haha
  3. #3 Perpetual Burn, Nov 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2011
    Since when does 'logic' determine what happens?

    I get why people think something cannot come from nothing.

    But seriously... where the fuck else?

    Okay, something came from something... well, where did that something come from?

    Face the facts... "Emptiness is form and form is emptiness."

    Both emptiness and form are just... shit you made up anyway... so don't sweat it...

    Accept the fact... this is what eternity looks like.

    "If not Now, when?"

    In Buddhism, the infinite eternal real Universe is called Samsara.
    Realizing that notions of form and time are simply ideas is called Nirvana.
  4. #4 batenswitch, Nov 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2011
    I only mentioned the logic behind it to make it easier for people to understand and to prevent any haters from nitpicking, but I guess it backfired :p

    At any rate, you just reinforced my point that its illogical to assume existence can come from "nothing"
  5. #5 meddlehaze, Nov 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2011
    1) How is something coming from nothing (ex nihilo) any less logical than an eternal universe? Neither can be replicated in the "lab", neither can be proven with empirical, direct evidence.
    2) For an eternal universe to exist, time (along with space and matter) must be infinite, correct? Your answer may lead me to another question.
    3) Have you considered the law of entropy in your theory? I would like to know how you have worked that in, logically.

    Best regards

  6. Why couldn't "that something" be eternal in it's nature?
  7. #7 batenswitch, Nov 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2011
    I'm not claiming to KNOW the universe is eternal, its just a thought experiment to consider the effects of eternity and infinity in relation to consciousness. If it bothers you then forget the eternal universe and apply the many-worlds interpretation

    Believe me, I'm just as concerned with the problems of pseudoscience and misinformation as you are lol
  8. I know man. I was trying to participate in your thought experiment. My mind doesn't logically conclude with an eternal universe and I was wondering how yours might.

    I don't demand you answer those questions, but I'd like to review your thoughts and possibly challenge 'em with some objections. :)

  9. I actually don't claim to believe the universe is eternal either haha, I can't believe anything without empirical evidence :p
  10. I believe it's eternal because I saw it many times on unmentionables..I think we're connected to every version of ourselves that has or could ever exist and can access all that information on a subconscious level..I also think that when we die we just pick right back up in a different timeline but never know it because it's more or less just our experiences and subconscious that transfer since consciousness is subjective
  11. #11 batenswitch, Nov 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2011
    This is actually true (to an extent) within the context of the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. If an infinite number of realities exist, then whatever realities your mind can "create" (like dreams) exist in its own universe somewhere.

    You might even say our dreams are a window into the reality of another universe, and an actual way to experience that reality.

  12. Yea it's also why time is so different in dreams like you feel like you were asleep forever and it's been an hour or vice verse..also explains deja vu, supernatural things. I once read this thing about a little boy who had memories of a civil war guy supposedly but that would be crazy if different people actually did end up in one person like multiple personality disorder person..see told ya I can go on plus I smoked so that doesnt help haha
  13. i kinda feel like a chicken in an egg sometimes like im in the middle of this giant abyss of comfort too distracted by exploing the space to think about whats outside the shell. like i wonder if the chick thinks its dying when it hatches or if it knows its about to start its new life?
  14. "You see what you want to see,
    Well you should see it all"

    You just ignored my question and continued about with your own ideas.

    Things arise. They do what they do. Then they don't anymore. Such is the Tao of things.

    But arising, doing, and non-doing only happens in the Mind.

    Neither things or the Mind are tangible... or exist in such a way that is subject to notions of eternity.
  15. #15 batenswitch, Nov 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2011
    For someone who quotes Buddhist/Taoist texts you sure are aggressive. If you're referring to your question about logic, I didn't answer it because its ridiculous. Logic determines everything that matters to us now, without it we wouldn't have science and you wouldn't be able to pose such questions to me. If you're such a nihilist then why not just kill yourself now to end your contribution to global suffering, AND why bother arguing someone like this if there's no point. I mean, you're even using logic yourself just to form an argument.

    I understand the concept that all this stuff is just ideas, and essentially and objectively bullshit, but so what? Logic works for the reality that most people live in lol

  16. This doesn't really answer my question. If it does, I do not understand what you are trying to convey. Please elaborate on why "that something" couldn't just be eternal rather than the universe itself, in a way that I can comprehend.
    I saw the ceiling make patterns and shapes to music, does this mean it's absolutely happening at this moment? I don't believe ideas under the influence of unmentionables are trustworthy or valid because they are influenced by such. I need more reason than that
  17. Take a lot more next time
  18. So, now you've explained why you didn't answer my question... because it's ridiculous for you to even entertain the idea. You are always gonna run into such problems figuring out where things came from and where they're going if you persist they exist. Yet you cannot show me anything that has existed forever and nothing that will forever.

    The truth is, it all just popped into existence and will pop out of existence. There's no way around it... and no way to explain it really. "The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao."

    You can plainly observe the disappearing and reappearing of things at the quantum level. You know electrons don't move from one electron field to another right? They just disappear and reappear. Arguably, this is happening all the time with every particle.

    There is no suffering. This is why I bother to reply to your posts. You claim something is existing, so the suffering you attach to it has to be just as real. I'm just trying to pull the rug of suffering out from under your feet.

    You're right, it is futile... there is nothing to gain by helping people be happy. But there's nothing to lose either.

    Okay, take a car for example. It had a beginning, it drives about, and it will have an end. Simple enough, right?

    Now, just realize that the Universe (and whatever 'that something' is that it's made of) is a thing also.

    And if you're Scientifically minded, then cansider this... Stephen Hawking once said, "Asking what came before the Big Bang is like asking what's north of the North Pole."

    Are you familiar with The Big Rip?

    The Cyclic Model is cute and all... but who believes it?

    However, the Quantum Vaccuum the Universe sits in is eternal. But I can't prove that becuase it doesn't really 'exist.'

    But I can ask myself... Can nothing end?

    Why don't you apply your skepticism when experiencing hallucinations to the Universe?

    Just because you see something doesn't mean it's eternal.

  19. I mostly didn't answer because it's irrelevant to the thread, I just wanted you to ASSUME a set of circumstances and consider the implications. Not ask why you're assuming, IT'S A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT. I'm not claiming to know any truths here.


    I'd like to know where you're getting your "truths" from. It seems to me the truth is nobody knows shit about anything and we're going to die, will that change? No way we could possibly know. But back to the topic of eternity and consciousness.. lol
  20. There is no such thing as "no thing". Obviously there is a something and that something is this. Well, it's this and that, and also that too. 1 thing consisting of everything, that rearranges and collides, changing shape, never to be the same again. A box full of crazy. Tis the only explanation.

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