Essay: To what extent can God be held responsible for the evil and suffering on earth

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by Verdant Nature, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. #1 Verdant Nature, Feb 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2009
    To what extent can God be blamed for Evil and Suffering in the World?

    Frequently cited by atheists as a main reason for their none believing, the title question has been subject to debate ever since the first publication of the Bible. There are two main stances that Philosophers take on this subject, which I will cover in the essay.

    The first is that, assuming God creates ex-nihilo – out of nothing – then he created every conceivable matter in the known Universe, meaning that He deliberately created evil and suffering. This goes against Christian tradition that God is perfectly good and that He loves humanity enough to not want them to suffer. David Hume stated that one of three possibilities were logical: either God isn’t all-powerful as he doesn’t have control over evil, He is malicious or He doesn’t exist. Hume concluded that He does not exist, as He could easily cause untold amounts of suffering if He was malicious and believed that if God existed then He would be all powerful. Therefore he believed it made more sense that there is no God. Hume’s conclusions take into account the extent of the power of God. If He were all-powerful, would he not have control over every conceivable aspect of nature, of man and of time? And if He loved us as greatly as the Bible describes, would He allow millions of innocents to suffer like in the Holocaust and the Black Death? Then again, were God all-powerful and omnipotent, it is logical to assume that He has a greater concept of good and evil and that allowing suffering to occur is part of His master plan. It has been debated that if evil did not exist, then good as a concept would have no value, as there would be nothing to compare it to. One recognizes an act of good as one that is beneficial in some way, if there was no suffering how would one recognize what was or wasn’t beneficial? And in the same way, how would one recognize what was good? Perhaps God allowed evil to exist so humankind could gain a better appreciation of what is good. On the other hand, allowing millions of Jews to die in the Holocaust seems extremely unnecessary. In the same way, punishing a 40-year-old single mother with cancer seems harsh when evil men like Osama Bin Laden live wealthy and protected lives. All this evidence supports the view that either God does not exist, does not care about us - like in Aristotelian thought - or is malicious.

    Other Philosophers like Augustine and Iraneous take very different stances. Augustine believed that God did not create evil, but that it is a by- product of man turning away from Him. He reasoned that we were all seminally present in the loins of Adam and God is rightful to punish us for original sin, as the blood of Adam runs through all our veins. However, biological grounds prove that unless Adams testicals were the size of Saturn, we were not seminally present in his loins and it is unreasonable for God to punish us for his sins. The Bible says babies are born sinners, as they represent the imperfections of their forebears, but if we are branded sinners from birth does that not make us more susceptible to the temptations of ‘evil’? Iraneous philosophised that when God gave mankind free will, they could either choose to follow Him or turn away from Him, creating evil. From Adams original sin in the Garden of Eden, man has continually turned away from God and as a result has brought evil into the world. Iraneous stated that God could not interfere with mans choice, because then they wouldn’t really have free-will and if everyone was designed to do good things, then they wouldn’t have free will at all but would in effect be robots as their actions would be predetermined. God cannot interfere with a human that commits an evil act because He cannot risk compromising free will. This leads to the problem of Hell. If God made hell, then He must have surely anticipated that man would turn against Him and made Hell because of this. This leads to the question, why did God knowingly create humankind if He already knew they would turn against him? This is a question no one, philosopher or other thinker, has been successfully able to provide an accepted answer to.

    Iraneous’ point about free will could justify evil created by man in defence of God, but does not justify natural disasters like the Tsunami, which killed thousands of innocent people. Assuming God loves humanity, would it not be logical to assume He would wish them to live in a safe and peaceful natural environment? The fact that there are such things as Earthquakes and Volcanoes, which have both taken millions of lives over the centuries, has frequently been cited as an argument against the goodness of God. Again, this is a mystery that no one has been successfully able to answer, as only death is certain and nothing else. One day we will all learn the truth about God, whether He exists or not and whether life had any meaning at all, but until then all we can do is speculate. Being a Christian, I believe that God does indeed love us and that Gods intelligence is far beyond any human contemplation. The existence of evil has some greater purpose, which will be revealed in time. I believe that God cannot be held responsible for man made evil, as free will dictates that God cannot forcefully intervene with the choice of man. As for ‘natural evil,’ I cannot find a satisfactory justification for it, but have faith that it is part of a greater plan devised by God. If Hume is correct, and there is no God, then there is no higher power and there is no purpose in this life. The thought that this life, this unforgiving often insufferable life is pointless, scares me more than anything else possibly could, which is one of the main reasons I believe in God and as such do not hold Him responsible for the existence of evil.
     
  2. I do college level Philosophy and am a typically A grade student. That essay is lengthy but got an A.
     
  3. I thought it was a good essay.

    - On a side note, I would like to point something out. Is it not a possibility that god created natural disaster to cause death which would in-turn prevent suffering? If nobody died the world would be insanely over-populated, and trillions would starve to death.

    - Of course that contradicts itself, because god could simply give us more room to expand our race if he truly did not want any pain to come upon us. People say that its all part of his plan, but just because your resulting intent is good, that doesn't mean that what you did to get there was the best way.

    - My conclusion - there is no god.
     
  4. There are natural disasters to reflect Earth's living consious. Sometimes we forget that Gaia is alive, but in reality Gaia is very much alive. We think that we can just trash up the place, and since we get so many benefits from doing so we will continue to do so. There have been wars, millions have been killed, which were all caused by humans. There is no way that God can intervene with all the suffering since it was all man-created. There would be no point of him stopping it either since we would never learn our lesson that way.
     
  5. I liked this essay alot but i guess i just dont understand some peoples logic. A single god cant be completely good if evil exists. I had a debate with someone about whether or not the devil was a god him/herself. They said god can control him but doesnt and we argued over why god would alow him to temp us if we are so weak to start with.

    godd essay
     
  6. nice essay dude. thats a topic ive been thinking about for a while.

    now im a christian (and im not trying to force any beliefs on what i think and im not saying anything is wrong with your essay) but im going to say what i think

    i hate hearing people say, "why did God do this to me?", or "why did God let this happen?" if God always gave us what we wanted, we wouldnt be grateful. we'd just expect it. and if hitler was stoped by a giant force coming from the sky (God), everyone would believe in God because they saw it for theyre own eyes. why would God make it easy for us to believe in him? then everybody would get into heaven and no one would truely deserve it. it just wouldnt be realistic if everything that hapened to us is good. thatd be heaven not earth. this is reality, it just depeneds on what we define as good and bad.

    nice essay though. id give it an A
     
  7. Where are your critical thinking skills?

    God had absolutely no problem letting his son Jesus run a miraculous rampage during the New and Old Testaments (assuming they are factually based stories and not merely metaphorical tales created for the purpose of social manipulation) so why would he have trouble showing his face now? In these hard times?

    Logical reasoning behind a belief is what validates its sensibility. To simply parade around believing in butterflies and honeybees because it makes you happy or sounds "nice" is cute, but no less delusional.

    If a single parent wants their child to believe they are a nurturing and truly care for them, why leave that child to fend for itself?

    Furthermore, the bible clearly states that anything faithful servants of God ask for shall be given to them. Seek and you shall find. All to often however it is quite the contrary.

    Meh. Religion blows.
     
  8. Precisely. It is when man grows into Gods likeness that He will be truly satisfied.
     
  9. why? in the bible it says that believing in God and what the bible says and obeying his rules is the only thing we need for salvation. when Jesus came everyone that was there saw it for their own eyes and chose to believe it or not. and considering the poulation back before Jesus came the people God spoke directly to were very few. i still see ways God works in this world today. especially with my life experiences.
     
  10. God made all. He is responsible for everything with in it. But dont' get it twisted!?!?! He gave man the choice to choose between right or wrong and the ability to tell the difference between the two.
     
  11. ^^^Right and wrong are purely subjective terms.
     
  12. I refuse to believe that spending my life committed to god is going to get me anywhere. I believe that the meaning of life is to live it.
    Now, I know that sounds vague, however, just light right and wrong, it is purely how one views it. If one sees that it is fit for their own life to spend it believing in a second life in heaven, then so be it. I on the other hand view that as a waste of time. I know what i like to do, and who i like to do it with so thats what im going to do. I do not worry about money, i do not worry about what the future will hold. Some call that immature, but how do they know how i want to live my life, how it should be lived.

    The meaning of life is all perception. Just because i do not believe in god does not mean that there is no meaning in my life.

    Live it, love it.

    Your essay was very good man.
     
  13. #14 paint_u_dgt, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2010
    Good essay though,

    God can not be held responsible for any good or bad on this earth because GOD DOES NOT EXIST! If you read your bible front to back word for word you would likely understand this as it was written by men whom were trying to spark religious rebellion and change throughout time.

    It was broken into certain very specific books by men, supposedly translated from god to paper by man..

    In closing, "God" in all forms was created by man to comfort the sick and dying and try and infuse some accountability after death. NOTHING MORE!!! The sooner people can shake their parental brain washing the sooner we can get god out of our government and society and we can really start living peaceful harmonious lives.
     
  14. god doesn't exist, humans are responsible for their own actions and blaming it on a god is shirking responsibility

    you are the author of your own happiness, suffering, depression, mental illness, etc. it's up to you, take responsibility for your actions and their consequences

    i am a god, you are your own god, the key is your mind
     
  15. Why would we assume the nature of a god. We can't see or feel a god's presence in any way. You could only ask the question "how responsible is God for evil blah blah blah" if we assumed that the one true god were one that presented us with a general understanding of him/her/it...like the Christian God.
     

  16. To no extent should "god" be held accountable because "god" is a manmade concept. Because that would be diverting the blame from the true culprit. Man is responsible for the suffering which is a direct result of our actions, ie; poverty, oppression, discrimination, etc. As for natural disasters, well they don't just happen because a god snaps his fingers and decides they do, they too happen for reasons which are easily verifiable thanks to science nowdays. We're the creators of good and we're the creators of evil.
     
  17. I think God is responsible for all evil. He created it from day one, seeing that satan is the most deceptive, horrible evil thing ever known and was created by God's hands I feel God is responsible for this horrible concept. I've not read the whole bible but only parts and what I've read in down right horrible. When Adam and Eve were created they were so dumb they did'nt even know that they were naked, yet God placed them in a beautiful garden with the most evil cunning thing imagined the snake that can talk (satan) Thats just like putting two toddlers in your backyard with satan the beast. What do you think the outcome would be? The worst outcome!! the toddlers would fail and if you were like God, you would punish them with hard long suffering for the rest of their days just like in the bible.
    Adam and Eve had no chance but to fail, there was no free will, it was forced upon them. When God told Eve not to eat the apple He never said anything to Adam concerning the tree of life, that shows a deceptive plan in the works. It was only later after eating the apple that Adam found out from Eve that God said not to do it. Yet, God punished Adam too ... He could'nt stay away from punishing adam.
    Then God cursed the snake and cursed the satans seed and said that satan's seed would be against the women's seed (Eve) until the world ends. So that means there are people born from satan, which means there is no plan for peace on earth ... just evil.
    When Moses was sent to free Gods people from Egypt and the Pharaoh, God had left his people captive for 400 yrs (FOUR HUNDRED YEARS!!) try and imagine the suffering and cruleness brought to these people. Those day's people lived hundreds of yrs before they died, so try and imagine being a slave for hundreds of yrs.
    After sending multitudes of evil towards Egypt, the pharaoh many times wanted to let the people go ... yet God kept hardening his heart more and more, there was no free will given to make a choice. The outcome would be (no peace) but only murder and bloodshed to all including the innocent animals.
    The bible is loaded with stories of long suffering and very hard punishment from God and loaded with evil disasters coming straight from the hands of God. This is why I don't understand why so many christians say God cannot do evil. I've also read stories from people who had high faith in God. There was once a beautiful women who believed in God through the catholic church hundreds of yrs ago. There was a king who wanted her but she did'nt want him, so the king was furious and told his men to cut off her breasts. Try to imagin that!! and it happened and while this horrifying situation was happening where was God?
    Angels appeared to her and healed her only later when it was all over and she was alone. This is the kind of God He is. There are many stories in the bible about those who believe in God and everything that person feared about life on earth, God would make that person live and go through everything that person was afraid of. Any so many times the bible states the cry's of these people, crying out how long, how much more? the abuse is overwheming.
    God created satan or turned a angel into this horrible satan because this angel and a bunch more did'nt agree with God. God also gave satan enormous power to influence, to decieve, to destroy, to bring sorrow and many many other horrible things to us. Devil, demons, warlocks and witches, people born of satan who torcher and bring all kinds of hidious cruelty. At the same time God hardens many hearts so they are spritually blind and have no chance causeing more frustration and sorrows of all kinds to those who want to believe in God.
    The bible has a story about a man named job. He was the only person on the face of the earth at that time who walked perfectly with God. And look what God did to him!! God had a discusson with that horrifing satan and God allowed this this horrifing creature to destroy this man's life. Killing many of his family members and all his innocent livestock and even letting this horrible sickening creature touch this (only man who walked perfectly with God) which caused this man to breakout with boils and sores ... this is the kind of God He is. There's alot more to the story but in the end Job past this horrifing test ..... how many people could pass something like this without cursing God ...... very VERY FEW. Here's a guy would does it right according to God, yet God could not stay away from bring'ing this man through long hard suffering evil ... that's the kind of God He is.
    It's going to happen to everyone, if not in this life on earth, be sure it will happen in the after life. The bible shows Jesus decending into hell or purgatory and talking to the people who are in prison from Noahs day's giving them a chance to finally get to a place called heaven where there is peace and no sorrows or evil ....How many yrs was it between Noah's day and the days of Jesus? hundreds?, thousands? all these people in prison as the bible states. Prison a place for long suffering and sorrows a place filled with evil ... thats the kind of God He is.
    It is a horrible concept.
    These are just some verses from various parts of the bible that shows the evil that God creates, these versus are just scraping the surface.
    Exod.32
    [7] And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
    [8] They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
    [9] And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
    [10] Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
    [11] And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?
    [12] Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.
    [13] Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
    [14] And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

    Deut.7
    [15] And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.

    Deut.29
    14] Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
    [15] But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:
    [16] (For ye know how we have dwelt in the land of Egypt; and how we came through the nations which ye passed by;
    [17] And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them:)
    [18] Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;
    [19] And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:
    [20] The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.
    [21] And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:
    [22] So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the LORD hath laid upon it;
    [23] And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:
    [24] Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger?
    [25] Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:
    [26] For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:
    [27] And the anger of the LORD was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book:
    [28] And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.
    [29] The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
    Deut.30
    [15] See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
    Deut.31
    [16] And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
    [17] Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day. Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?
    [18] And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.
    [19] Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.

    Josh.23
    [15] Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.

    Judg.9
    [23] Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:
    1Sam.16
    [14] But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
    [15] And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

    2Sam.12
    11] Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.
    2 Sam.24
    16] And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.
    1Kgs.9
    [1] And it came to pass, when Solomon had finished the building of the house of the LORD, and the king's house, and all Solomon's desire which he was pleased to do,
    [2] That the LORD appeared to Solomon the second time, as he had appeared unto him at Gibeon.
    [3] And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
    [4] And if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my statutes and my judgments:
    [5] Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.
    [6] But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:
    [7] Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:
    [8] And at this house, which is high, every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and they shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house?
    [9] And they shall answer, Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.

    1Kgs.14
    [10] Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone.
    1Kgs.21
    [29] Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house.
    2 Kngs.21
    12] Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.
    2 Kgs.22
    [16] Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:
    [17] Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be kindled against this place, and shall not be quenched.
    [18] But to the king of Judah which sent you to inquire of the LORD, thus shall ye say to him, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, As touching the words which thou hast heard;
    [19] Because thine heart was tender, and thou hast humbled thyself before the LORD, when thou heardest what I spake against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, that they should become a desolation and a curse, and hast rent thy clothes, and wept before me; I also have heard thee, saith the LORD.
    [20] Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place. And they brought the king word again.
    1 Chr.21
    [15] And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.

    2 Chr.7
    12] And the LORD appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice.
    [13] If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;
    [14] If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
    [15] Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.
    [16] For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
    [17] And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statues and my judgments;
    [18] Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.
    [19] But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
    [20] Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.
    [21] And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it; so that he shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and unto this house?
    [22] And it shall be answered, Because they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath he brought all this evil upon them.
    Job.2
    [10] But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
    Job.42
    [11] Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
    Prov.16
    4] The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.


    Isa.45
    [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
    Amen.

    Nations who walk away from Gods commands will recieve a horrible punishment from the Almighty, a punishment filled to the brim with evil.
    Isa.45
    [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
    4Ezra.15
    [1] Behold, speak thou in the ears of my people the words of prophecy, which I will put in thy mouth, saith the Lord:
    [2] And cause them to be written in paper: for they are faithful and true.
    [3] Fear not the imaginations against thee, let not the incredulity of them trouble thee, that speak against thee.
    [4] For all the unfaithful shall die in their unfaithfulness.
    [5] Behold, saith the Lord, I will bring plagues upon the world; the sword, famine, death, and destruction.
    [6] For wickedness hath exceedingly polluted the whole earth, and their hurtful works are fulfilled.
    [7] Therefore saith the Lord,
    [8] I will hold my tongue no more as touching their wickedness, which they profanely commit, neither will I suffer them in those things, in which they wickedly exercise themselves: behold, the innocent and righteous blood crieth unto me, and the souls of the just complain continually.
    [9] And therefore, saith the Lord, I will surely avenge them, and receive unto me all the innocent blood from among them.
    [10] Behold, my people is led as a flock to the slaughter: I will not suffer them now to dwell in the land of Egypt:
    [11] But I will bring them with a mighty hand and a stretched out arm, and smite Egypt with plagues, as before, and will destroy all the land thereof.
    [12] Egypt shall mourn, and the foundation of it shall be smitten with the plague and punishment that God shall bring upon it.
    [13] They that till the ground shall mourn: for their seeds shall fail through the blasting and hail, and with a fearful constellation.
    [14] Woe to the world and them that dwell therein!
    [15] For the sword and their destruction draweth nigh, and one people shall stand up and fight against another, and swords in their hands.
    [16] For there shall be sedition among men, and invading one another; they shall not regard their kings nor princes, and the course of their actions shall stand in their power.
    [17] A man shall desire to go into a city, and shall not be able.
    [18] For because of their pride the cities shall be troubled, the houses shall be destroyed, and men shall be afraid.
    [19] A man shall have no pity upon his neighbour, but shall destroy their houses with the sword, and spoil their goods, because of the lack of bread, and for great tribulation.
    [20] Behold, saith God, I will call together all the kings of the earth to reverence me, which are from the rising of the sun, from the south, from the east, and Libanus; to turn themselves one against another, and repay the things that they have done to them.
    [21] Like as they do yet this day unto my chosen, so will I do also, and recompense in their bosom. Thus saith the Lord God;
    [22] My right hand shall not spare the sinners, and my sword shall not cease over them that shed innocent blood upon the earth.
    [23] The fire is gone forth from his wrath, and hath consumed the foundations of the earth, and the sinners, like the straw that is kindled.
    [24] Woe to them that sin, and keep not my commandments! saith the Lord.
    [25] I will not spare them: go your way, ye children, from the power, defile not my sanctuary.
    [26] For the Lord knoweth all them that sin against him, and therefore delivereth he them unto death and destruction.
    [27] For now are the plagues come upon the whole earth and ye shall remain in them: for God shall not deliver you, because ye have sinned against him.
    [28] Behold an horrible vision, and the appearance thereof from the east:
    [29] Where the nations of the dragons of Arabia shall come out with many chariots, and the multitude of them shall be carried as the wind upon earth, that all they which hear them may fear and tremble.
    [30] Also the Carmanians raging in wrath shall go forth as the wild boars of the wood, and with great power shall they come, and join battle with them, and shall waste a portion of the land of the Assyrians.
    [31] And then shall the dragons have the upper hand, remembering their nature; and if they shall turn themselves, conspiring together in great power to persecute them,
    [32] Then these shall be troubled bled, and keep silence through their power, and shall flee.
    [33] And from the land of the Assyrians shall the enemy besiege them, and consume some of them, and in their host shall be fear and dread, and strife among their kings.
    [34] Behold clouds from the east and from the north unto the south, and they are very horrible to look upon, full of wrath and storm.
    [35] They shall smite one upon another, and they shall smite down a great multitude of stars upon the earth, even their own star; and blood shall be from the sword unto the belly,
    [36] And dung of men unto the camel's hough.
    [37] And there shall be great fearfulness and trembling upon earth: and they that see the wrath shall be afraid, and trembling shall come upon them.
    [38] And then shall there come great storms from the south, and from the north, and another part from the west.
    [39] And strong winds shall arise from the east, and shall open it; and the cloud which he raised up in wrath, and the star stirred to cause fear toward the east and west wind, shall be destroyed.
    [40] The great and mighty clouds shall be puffed up full of wrath, and the star, that they may make all the earth afraid, and them that dwell therein; and they shall pour out over every high and eminent place an horrible star,
    [41] Fire, and hail, and flying swords, and many waters, that all fields may be full, and all rivers, with the abundance of great waters.
    [42] And they shall break down the cities and walls, mountains and hills, trees of the wood, and grass of the meadows, and their corn.
    [43] And they shall go stedfastly unto Babylon, and make her afraid.
    [44] They shall come to her, and besiege her, the star and all wrath shall they pour out upon her: then shall the dust and smoke go up unto the heaven, and all they that be about her shall bewail her.
    [45] And they that remain under her shall do service unto them that have put her in fear.
    [46] And thou, Asia, that art partaker of the hope of Babylon, and art the glory of her person:
    [47] Woe be unto thee, thou wretch, because thou hast made thyself like unto her; and hast decked thy daughters in whoredom, that they might please and glory in thy lovers, which have always desired to commit whoredom with thee.
    [48] Thou hast followed her that is hated in all her works and inventions: therefore saith God,
    [49] I will send plagues upon thee; widowhood, poverty, famine, sword, and pestilence, to waste thy houses with destruction and death.
    [50] And the glory of thy Power shall be dried up as a flower, the heat shall arise that is sent over thee.
    [51] Thou shalt be weakened as a poor woman with stripes, and as one chastised with wounds, so that the mighty and lovers shall not be able to receive thee.
    [52] Would I with jealousy have so proceeded against thee, saith the Lord,
    [53] If thou hadst not always slain my chosen, exalting the stroke of thine hands, and saying over their dead, when thou wast drunken,
    [54] Set forth the beauty of thy countenance?
    [55] The reward of thy whoredom shall be in thy bosom, therefore shalt thou receive recompence.
    [56] Like as thou hast done unto my chosen, saith the Lord, even so shall God do unto thee, and shall deliver thee into mischief
    [57] Thy children shall die of hunger, and thou shalt fall through the sword: thy cities shall be broken down, and all thine shall perish with the sword in the field.
    [58] They that be in the mountains shall die of hunger, and eat their own flesh, and drink their own blood, for very hunger of bread, and thirst of water.
    [59] Thou as unhappy shalt come through the sea, and receive plagues again.
    [60] And in the passage they shall rush on the idle city, and shall destroy some portion of thy land, and consume part of thy glory, and shall return to Babylon that was destroyed.
    [61] And thou shalt be cast down by them as stubble, and they shall be unto thee as fire;
    [62] And shall consume thee, and thy cities, thy land, and thy mountains; all thy woods and thy fruitful trees shall they burn up with fire.
    [63] Thy children shall they carry away captive, and, look, what thou hast, they shall spoil it, and mar the beauty of thy face.
    4Ezra.16
    [1] Woe be unto thee, Babylon, and Asia! woe be unto thee, Egypt and Syria!
    [2] Gird up yourselves with cloths of sack and hair, bewail your children, and be sorry; for your destruction is at hand.
    [3] A sword is sent upon you, and who may turn it back?
    [4] A fire is sent among you, and who may quench it?
    [5] Plagues are sent unto you, and what is he that may drive them away?
    [6] May any man drive away an hungry lion in the wood? or may any one quench the fire in stubble, when it hath begun to burn?
    [7] May one turn again the arrow that is shot of a strong archer?
    [8] The mighty Lord sendeth the plagues and who is he that can drive them away?
    [9] A fire shall go forth from his wrath, and who is he that may quench it?
    [10] He shall cast lightnings, and who shall not fear? he shall thunder, and who shall not be afraid?
    [11] The Lord shall threaten, and who shall not be utterly beaten to powder at his presence?
    [12] The earth quaketh, and the foundations thereof; the sea ariseth up with waves from the deep, and the waves of it are troubled, and the fishes thereof also, before the Lord, and before the glory of his power:
    [13] For strong is his right hand that bendeth the bow, his arrows that he shooteth are sharp, and shall not miss, when they begin to be shot into the ends of the world.
    [14] Behold, the plagues are sent, and shall not return again, until they come upon the earth.
    [15] The fire is kindled, and shall not be put out, till it consume the foundation of the earth.
    [16] Like as an arrow which is shot of a mighty archer returneth not backward: even so the plagues that shall be sent upon earth shall not return again.
    [17] Woe is me! woe is me! who will deliver me in those days?
    [18] The beginning of sorrows and great mournings; the beginning of famine and great death; the beginning of wars, and the powers shall stand in fear; the beginning of evils! what shall I do when these evils shall come?
    [19] Behold, famine and plague, tribulation and anguish, are sent as scourges for amendment.
    [20] But for all these things they shall not turn from their wickedness, nor be always mindful of the scourges.
    [21] Behold, victuals shall be so good cheap upon earth, that they shall think themselves to be in good case, and even then shall evils grow upon earth, sword, famine, and great confusion.
    [22] For many of them that dwell upon earth shall perish of famine; and the other, that escape the hunger, shall the sword destroy.
    [23] And the dead shall be cast out as dung, and there shall be no man to comfort them: for the earth shall be wasted, and the cities shall be cast down.
    [24] There shall be no man left to till the earth, and to sow it
    [25] The trees shall give fruit, and who shall gather them?
    [26] The grapes shall ripen, and who shall tread them? for all places shall be desolate of men:
    [27] So that one man shall desire to see another, and to hear his voice.
    [28] For of a city there shall be ten left, and two of the field, which shall hide themselves in the thick groves, and in the clefts of the rocks.
    [29] As in an orchard of Olives upon every tree there are left three or four olives;
    [30] Or as when a vineyard is gathered, there are left some clusters of them that diligently seek through the vineyard:
    [31] Even so in those days there shall be three or four left by them that search their houses with the sword.
    [32] And the earth shall be laid waste, and the fields thereof shall wax old, and her ways and all her paths shall grow full of thorns, because no man shall travel therethrough.
    [33] The virgins shall mourn, having no bridegrooms; the women shall mourn, having no husbands; their daughters shall mourn, having no helpers.
    [34] In the wars shall their bridegrooms be destroyed, and their husbands shall perish of famine.
    [35] Hear now these things and understand them, ye servants of the Lord.
    [36] Behold, the word of the Lord, receive it: believe not the gods of whom the Lord spake.
    [37] Behold, the plagues draw nigh, and are not slack.
    [38] As when a woman with child in the ninth month bringeth forth her son, with two or three hours of her birth great pains compass her womb, which pains, when the child cometh forth, they slack not a moment:
    [39] Even so shall not the plagues be slack to come upon the earth, and the world shall mourn, and sorrows shall come upon it on every side.
    [40] O my people, hear my word: make you ready to thy battle, and in those evils be even as pilgrims upon the earth.
    [41] He that selleth, let him be as he that fleeth away: and he that buyeth, as one that will lose:
    [42] He that occupieth merchandise, as he that hath no profit by it: and he that buildeth, as he that shall not dwell therein:
    [43] He that soweth, as if he should not reap: so also he that planteth the vineyard, as he that shall not gather the grapes:
    [44] They that marry, as they that shall get no children; and they that marry not, as the widowers.
    [45] And therefore they that labour labour in vain:
    [46] For strangers shall reap their fruits, and spoil their goods, overthrow their houses, and take their children captives, for in captivity and famine shall they get children.
    [47] And they that occupy their merchandise with robbery, the more they deck their cities, their houses, their possessions, and their own persons:
    [48] The more will I be angry with them for their sin, saith the Lord.
    [49] Like as a whore envieth a right honest and virtuous woman:
    [50] So shall righteousness hate iniquity, when she decketh herself, and shall accuse her to her face, when he cometh that shall defend him that diligently searcheth out every sin upon earth.
    [51] And therefore be ye not like thereunto, nor to the works thereof.
    [52] For yet a little, and iniquity shall be taken away out of the earth, and righteousness shall reign among you.
    [53] Let not the sinner say that he hath not sinned: for God shall burn coals of fire upon his head, which saith before the Lord God and his glory, I have not sinned.
    [54] Behold, the Lord knoweth all the works of men, their imaginations, their thoughts, and their hearts:
    [55] Which spake but the word, Let the earth be made; and it was made: Let the heaven be made; and it was created.
    [56] In his word were the stars made, and he knoweth the number of them.
    [57] He searcheth the deep, and the treasures thereof; he hath measured the sea, and what it containeth.
    [58] He hath shut the sea in the midst of the waters, and with his word hath he hanged the earth upon the waters.
    [59] He spreadeth out the heavens like a vault; upon the waters hath he founded it.
    [60] In the desert hath he made springs of water, and pools upon the tops of the mountains, that the floods might pour down from the high rocks to water the earth.
    [61] He made man, and put his heart in the midst of the body, and gave him breath, life, and understanding.
    [62] Yea and the Spirit of Almighty God, which made all things, and searcheth out all hidden things in the secrets of the earth,
    [63] Surely he knoweth your inventions, and what ye think in your hearts, even them that sin, and would hide their sin.
    [64] Therefore hath the Lord exactly searched out all your works, and he will put you all to shame.
    [65] And when your sins are brought forth, ye shall be ashamed before men, and your own sins shall be your accusers in that day.
    [66] What will ye do? or how will ye hide your sins before God and his angels?
    [67] Behold, God himself is the judge, fear him: leave off from your sins, and forget your iniquities, to meddle no more with them for ever: so shall God lead you forth, and deliver you from all trouble.
    [68] For, behold, the burning wrath of a great multitude is kindled over you, and they shall take away certain of you, and feed you, being idle, with things offered unto idols.
    [69] And they that consent unto them shall be had in derision and in reproach, and trodden under foot.
    [70] For there shall be in every place, and in the next cities, a great insurrection upon those that fear the Lord.
    [71] They shall be like mad men, sparing none, but still spoiling and destroying those that fear the Lord.
    [72] For they shall waste and take away their goods, and cast them out of their houses.
    [73] Then shall they be known, who are my chosen; and they shall be tried as the gold in the fire.
    [74] Hear, O ye my beloved, saith the Lord: behold, the days of trouble are at hand, but I will deliver you from the same.
    [75] Be ye not afraid neither doubt; for God is your guide,
    [76] And the guide of them who keep my commandments and precepts, saith the Lord God: let not your sins weigh you down, and let not your iniquities lift up themselves.
    [77] Woe be unto them that are bound with their sins, and covered with their iniquities like as a field is covered over with bushes, and the path thereof covered with thorns, that no man may travel through!
    [78] It is left undressed, and is cast into the fire to be consumed therewith.
    The Word of The Lord.
    Yes!! God creates evil.
    In Jesus Name Thy Will Be Done, Amen and Amen.

    Leviticus.26

    [13] I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.
    [14] But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
    [15] And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
    [16] I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
    [17] And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
    [18] And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
    [19] And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
    [20] And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.
    [21] And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
    [22] I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your highways shall be desolate.
    [23] And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
    [24] Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
    25] And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
    [26] And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.
    [27] And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
    [28] Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
    [29] And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
    [30] And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
    [31] And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.
    [32] And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.
    [33] And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
    [34] Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.
    [35] As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.
    [36] And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth.
    [37] And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
    [38] And ye shall perish among the heathen, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
    [39] And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.
    [40] If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
    [41] And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
    [42] Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
    [43] The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.

    The word of the Lord
    So when you hear or see a christian who say's God does not do evil or can't do evil, you can point this stuff out to them. These versus come from the King James Bible one of the old'est bibles ... the new bibles of today have changed many of these versus, has even taken the word evil right out.
     
  18. IF god exists , this is prolly his perspective

    gods a parent with a toddler , the toddler is addimantly commited to approaching a wall and slamming his head against it full force repeatedly , the parent [god] constantly tries to pull the toddler back and teach him not to do that , but the toddler insists on slaming its head against the wall

    the parent can spend all its time constantly keeping his kid from doing that , but no matter what the kid is gonna go up and start slamming its head into the wall , so god decided to step back and let the kid learn that "head slamming into wall=owch"
     
  19. so let me understand this.

    a fella created an account so that he could respond to a 2 year old thread about god and evil with a post that was about 3 times as lengthy and 30 times harder to read?

    holy fuck. merry christmas dude i hope you're less lonely next year
     
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