Epsoma "Garden Lime"

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by jerry111165, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. I was just answering a question for somebody and so pulled up the MSDS sheet on Epsoma Garden Lime to find out that in reality it is Ca(OH)2 - nasty Hydrated or "slack" or "builders" lime. Calcium Hydroxide.

    This stuff is very strong and nasty. If you need lime or a "liming agent" use oyster shell, crab/lobster/crab shell, which is Calcium Carbonate.

    "Agricultural Lime/Calcite Lime" = Calcium Carbonate.

    A note from LD on the subject -

    For soil like you & I mix and use there is absolutely no need for a Calcium amendment - None. Zilch. Nada. We get ours from vermicompost, lobster shells (in your case), crab meal (ovah here!), Alfalfa, Comfrey, Neem meal, Kelp meal - and the list goes on and on and on. Calcium is not some elusive Element at all. The earth's crust has huge levels of Calcium - massive levels.

    But yes, Calcium Carbonate is the best form and crustacean shells are a solid choice because you get Chitin as a bonus.


    I just wanted everybody who uses Epsoma products to be aware. This company just went down a notch in my book.
     
  2. This whole lime thing is fairly disconcerting. Thanks for the great info, Jerry.

    I used EarthSafe Organics' "Dolomite Lime", 1 cup per cubic foot. It doesn't seem to be having any negative affect yet, but what would one be looking for as a sign that the lime could be over-sweetening the mix? What visible cues am I looking for, that the lime is overpowering?

    This article was fairly informative too, just thought I'd share.
    Dolomite Lime
     
  3. I was meaning to look at the lime label. Good thing you checked for me, as that's the brand I have, unfortunately. I was under the impression it was Dolomite Lime.

    Ah well, good thing I just added a bunch of chitin instead. :cool:
     

  4. I'm still so curious about the dynamics of the liming agents.. Cuz there's got to be HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of different mag./cal. ratios in naturally occurring soil…

    Where did you find chitin? I would love to collect a hundred bajillion rollie pollies and blend them into a fine powder… but even still.. how can you be sure what your ratio is & how much to cut into your mix? :confused::smoking:
     
  5. Thank you Jerry for posting this up. Its funny, because the Espoma website says its "much better than hydrated lime", so obviously they have changed it enough to look different on a label, and be the same in reality.

    Im the one that was asking Jerry about this, as i used it in my current plant, and my "cooking" soil mix.

    Maybe everyone can chime in on this too. My current mix has been cooking for about 4 weeks...and it has crab meal AND neem seed meal this run, but i also had added about 1/4-1/2 cup of the garden lime...i guess next time i can simply add more crab?

    My grow when first transplanted into a SIP looked AMAZING, and now, leaves are droopy, yellow bottoming which i expect but it happened fast. And this SIP soil mix only had garden lime, maybe the constant moisture ran it out and has not much liming agent left?

    Def wont be using it after i can make a new batch.
     

  6. Lol, by chitin I'm referring to crab shell meal. Or oyster flour, which imo is better. (faster acting)

    Replace the lime ratio with chitin, I use roughly 1 cup per c.f. of the meal. If I had flour, I'd probably reduce down to 1/2 cup per c.f.

    Check the CEC link in my sig out, it'll help you to understand how calcium and other cations affect the PH of soil.

    But I believe someone pointed out that the base saturation percentage involving Cal/Mg in small containers doesn't really apply; the amount of leaching that happens removes most buildup was the line of thinking I believe.
     
  7. I use crushed oyster shell and a tad of dolomite. Want to get some crab meal now. :D
     
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  8. Not sure of itd be helpful but i have the bag in my spare bedroom i can upload a pic of the back if its helpful?
     
  9. #10 jerry111165, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2013
    Sure, that would be great.

    I'm thinking that maybe I found an old MSDS sheet for the product this morning - it makes me wonder if maybe Epsoma changed the lime in their bags at some point. Everything I'm reading right now shows their garden lime as bring pelletized dolomite, which is at least better than hydrated lime. Now I can't find the old MSDS...

    J

    Edit - this isnt the MSDS I saw earlier but this shows it being Ca(OH)2 Calcium Hydroxide too...

    http://szchanglong.en.alibaba.com/p...90/Espoma_Organic_Traditions_Garden_Lime.html
     
  10. That's what I have, from what I can remember. :smoking:

    I'll check later tonight.
     
  11. This is the stuff i have some Espoma. It says it was made in Sept of 2012 so its newer. And derived from dolomitic lime on the bottom of the bag in the pic...sorry if pic is sideways the app doesnt like my phone uploads lol.

    If this pelletized is still good to use, would the amouny be different from the powdered to add in the mix? I assume it would be.....maybe i need more than normal because of the pelletized method or less lol.
     

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  12. I really prefer calcium carbonate - which is straight limestone or the sea products - oyster, crab, et al. Wetdog likes Dolomite - which is similar but has a little magnesium in it

    The bottom line is that at least either Epsoma has changed for the better or I read it wrong but I know I didn't come up with calcium hydroxide/hydrated line on my own - at least it appears that if it was before, it isn't now.

    However you get there I would not recommend going over 1 cup per CF, and definetly less if you actually don't need it. Remember - quality humus buffers and stabilizes soil pH.

    J

    J
     
  13. By the way Gilboyto, fertilizer companies started "pelletizing", or as it is actually called "prilled" different fertilizers and line for safety's sake, as, in the dust form its not good to breath, so they throw a coating of clay or something around it. It's still really the same thing, but people were breathing the stuff in so they came up with this.

    J
     
  14. #15 SkunkyAndFunky, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2013
    Oh man, I thought the lime helped the pH balance? Is this the same role Chitin plays?

    Could I simply go collect oyster shells from a body of water? Raccoons have there ways with those things along rivers haha!

    And if I simply got the lobster compost from CoM?

    Just a few questions I'm sorry if it's repetitive.
    I'm just gonna do my own thing and see what comes of it haha I'll let you guys know how it goes along the way if anyone enjoys helping others grow!

    RESPECT!

    EDIT: I read above that quality humus takes care of pH haha sorry
     
  15. New here, just came upon this thread, and have a pic of the Epsoma garden lime product - bought this about a year ago. D
     

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