It's certainly physically possible, and yes it produces a certain amount of vapor for a while with better models, however you are doing so at the cost of a large percentage of the life of your atomizer and batteries. Instead of 6 months to over a year of steady, constant use without any decline in functionality or vapor production, it places much more strain on the element and surrounding containment, and consequently puts off an inconsistent vape much sooner, even in spite of cleansing, resulting in an overall reduced life of the atomizer and bats. Patients who use models with pure concentrates find they are replacing their equipment (atomizers in particular) as often as every few weeks, although generally the most frequent replacements are due to a lack of proper cleansing (which tempts people to over-burn)... frequent cleansing also isn't an issue with glycerin tincture, even in the 'coolest' temp-wise, or most inexpensive functional models. This is because glycerin becomes vapor at much lower temperatures than almost all other cannabinoids beyond your THC, glycerin is a powerful vapor 'vehicle', efficiently containing and carrying fully dissolved chemical components even in vapor form, and e-cigs only get so hot when used correctly. They almost always will vape THC, because THC has the third lowest flash-point of all the primary cannabinoids, *** however e-cigs (especially when used properly, and safely) almost never effectively vape CBD. ---------------------------- So besides 'wear and tear' which may not matter to patients who can afford more frequent replacements, the main reason that a glycerin tincture is ideal, is because when these small vaping devices are used safely and briefly as recommended, with draws lasting no longer than 3 - 5 seconds, the maximum temperatures achieved are generally much lower than the flash-point of almost all the major cannabinoids besides THC, especially with cheaper models. Even with the best models, without knowing the exact temp range you're reaching in a given period of time (which can vary even with the temperature of the room you're in), you can still potentially miss out on many of your highest flash-point cannabinoids! The 'cooler' the model, the more frequently you'll need to clean your atomizers... because as the temp varies, and drops, you're leaving behind an increasingly larger, and larger ratio of active cannabinoids. ---------------------------- But glycerin is 1.) a great solvent for cannabis glandular material, 2.) it has a low flash point and 3.) best of all it is a powerful vapor 'vehicle', meaning that when a cannabis concentrate is properly blended into a solution with glycerin, all the active chemicals that are effectively contained within the solution are carried in the glycerin vapor, at temperatures that are much, much lower than otherwise possible! By analyzing the vapor residue produced by glycerin tincture vapor, we've found that CBD for instance can be carried in vapor at temps as low as 175 C, in spite of the fact that its flash-point is a whopping 206.3 C! In short, Glycerin tincture: Extends the life of your e-cig by reducing the strain on your equipment, it vastly reduces the length of time you need to 'ignite' your atomizer or draw/inhale to achieve complete cannabinoid intake, it reduces the amount of 'waste' left behind in any given amount of time or use by vaping all components evenly and equally, rather than releasing them as they achieve their required temperature, and it discourages the temptation to over-heat your atomizer, in an attempt to vape a dose in a reasonable amount of time, versus the same concentrate's more rapid vapor production with glycerin. In a glycerin tincture you can easily, reliable, and without question, carry the full extent of your potency in vapor form, at much lower temps than say for instance your CBD, CBN, CBG, CBC, and other lesser cannabinoids and phytochemicals. This is why so many clinics and caregivers in areas with easy access to lab testing bother to go through the effort of using a glycerin tincture, rather than just opting for the models that claim not to require it.... any patient or caregiver with a few hundred dollars can collect a few grams worth of vapor residue, and have their own samples lab tested as well to verify the same. Glycerin tincture just ensures that your patients are getting the 'whole experience'. ---------------------------- All the above reasons are why we strongly recommend that our patients use glycerin tinctures for such small, low-powered devices which can overheat and produce toxic carcinogens when over-used to achieve the temperatures required, to fully vape a CBD containing extract! Even the best models, while they can certainly vape clean, pure concentrates well enough, still work best and more consistently when used with a properly made glycerin tincture. Hope this helps clear up the 'why'
Thank you very much haha that was actually very helpful...can you simply slow boil hash oil and VG to mix it?
And btw...i knew it was more wear and tear, but i was under the impression that theyr supposed to be disposable and changed every so often anyways. I jus never really tripped off of it, see'n as the price of buds in clubs are atleast 10 for a gram in most places. I dont see why paying 8 bucks on a lil gizmo every soso would be too costly for a patient. I see people spend hella cheese in the clubs on the daily. Im actually more of a frugle spender so...every bit counts
Theoretically you should be able to. Before someone gets into a debate about vape temps let me say, i am not some vaporizing guru, not by a long shot. I only follow suit. Where im from, we set our volcanos to 7 which is about 200C. My e-cig operates at 200C. Heat and air are the main components of a vaporizer correct? So why you cant load bud, seperating it from the actual coil with the polyfill thats already provided(the bridge in the atty should keep the polyfill from burning) is just beyond me. My only guess, e-cigs are made to have that coil tapd by liquid, thats it thats all. Still doesnt quite explain why the right temp and airflow doesnt vape bud............all i can say is that everything is there, we simply have to wait for the right brain to tinker with e-cigs. And im not sure how to load pics sooo haha however this post comes out, oh well
The -SAFE- operating temperature of the vast majority of handheld e-cig models, is no higher than 160 - 170 C, and generally even lower, well below the flash-point of CBD and other therapeutic, and sensation/experience- regulating cannabinoids (combined with THC, they are responsible for making the experience both more therapeutic, and more narcotic in sensation). This is because they are made from plastic and metal components which are capable of producing toxic chemical vapors, of their own, at higher temperatures. And this is why 'modding' e-cigs to increase their heat output is widely considered unsafe and unnecessary. There is no need to increase the heat for a glycerin solution, because glycerin vapes very successfully and easily at lower than the temps the devices were designed to reach within 5 seconds of 'ignition' or less, and their bridges and heating elements were simply NOT made for vaping other substances at higher temps. Even models which make claims as high as 200 c, are NOT meant for dry burning... in other words, without glycerin. That goes for concentrates, and ESPECIALLY for flowers. -------- If you were to mod it carefully, remove virtually everything but the element, and place it inside stainless steel, or stable ceramic, then you may have something, somewhere close, to high temp models made for vaping pure concentrates and flowers. But in that case, you may as well just buy a real vape! If you want to use flowers and hash, a traditional mini-vape is much more economical, because while they may cost a few more dollars to begin with, they don't require that you replace the fragile element every few weeks like you'd need to with the element in a common e-cig... those e-cig heating elements are not only considered 'disposable', but they were only intended for use with a liquid, and at much lower temps, after all. (Atomizers can potentially last for a year or longer, with proper use, but they are considered disposable by the manufacturers and vendors so they don't need to worry about warranties, guarantees, and replacements for dry-burning, which is what you'd be doing with bud, other forms of misuse, and heavy vaping... they only 'loosely guarantee' that they 'should work' for a few weeks.) ----------------- Again: In this thread we are focusing on the common inexpensive E-CIGARETTES made for use with e-liquid, we are NOT discussing the over-priced personal vaporizers, mimicking the design of e-cigs, which are explicitly made for high temp use, to vape pure concentrates and oils! Those are easy to use.. load, and vape. HOWEVER: A substantial, and common patient complaint, is a 'vague taste of plastic'. Just something to keep in mind. ----------------- The below is from a member at ECF, measuring the element temperature with an IR thermal pen: " Magnum Mod - (2 - CR2 Batteries in series) Voltage 6.46 drop to 5.1 = 1.36 Total Voltage Drop Amp Draw 1.39 Temp 1st-104 2nd-115 3rd-123 4th-130 5th-138 Avg= 122 USB Mod - (Battery connector Hole Plugged) Voltage 5.07 drop to 4.18 = .89 Total Voltage Drop Amp Draw 1.2 Temp 1st-104 2nd-111 3rd-116.8 4th-128 5th-126 Avg= 115 USB Mod - (Battery connector Hole OPEN) Voltage 5.07 drop to 4.18 = .89 Total Voltage Drop Amp Draw 1.2 Temp 1st-98 2nd-102 3rd-107 4th-109 5th-111 Avg= 105.4 Regular Battery - Voltage 4.17 drop to 3.62 = .55 Total Voltage Drop Amp Draw 1.12 Temp 1st-104 2nd-109 3rd-112 4th-145 5th-162 Avg= 120.4 CR123 Battery - (NON-rechargeable Lithium) Voltage 3.28 drop to 2.98 = .3 Total Voltage Drop Amp Draw .8 Temp 1st-98 2nd-104 3rd-105 4th-107 5th-109 Avg= 104.6 Well take this all for whats its worth - Findings - 1.) The temps ran lower with the battery hole open instead of closed (Makes sense) 2.) With a stock battery the atomizer got warmer than a USB mod with less than half the vapor production 3.)The Magnum ran at almost the same average temperature with at close to twice the Vapor production. I wish I had a Vapor Density measurement device. Would have been an nice bit of info. Also I would like to see the difference in a rechargeable CR123 power source. Vapor produced on the exhale of the pump seemed to be most abundant with the first 3 mods - The last two seemed less and approximately the same. Would like to know if the vapor production goes up with a rechargeable CR123 over a non-rechargeable - Got some coming from DealExtreme will check this after they arrive." The below, is from the FDA's analysis comparing several unnamed models, and the 'Njoy': "The temperature of the heating element in each e-cigarette was determined by inserting a thermocouple and then activating the e-cigarette by drawing air through it. These temperatures ranged from 40 to 65C." You'd be hard pressed to fully vape your THC reliably, at some of the temperatures quoted above. That's where glycerin as a 'vehicle' for low-temp vaporization, comes in, going back to my last post. Remember, early on e-cigs were nearly outlawed in the US altogether, due to a large number of models (mainly from China, some of which were simply flawed name-brands, others were illegal knock-offs entirely) which exceeded the safe temperature range, because of the ridiculous amount of carcinogens and toxins they produced! They were about to hand the full extent of the blame to the e-cigs in general as a 'whole' and a product, when manufacturers responsible for the 'best' models made it clear at the last moment that, in-spite of the fact their models were made from the same materials, only those e-cigs functioning within an unsafe temperature range, produced the toxins. It's not that you "can't do it", it's physically possible to ramp their temps up high enough by either modding, or by activating the element longer than you should. It's also physically possible to jam a bit of dry weed inside. But just because something is within the realm of possibility, if you ignore the directions for use, that doesn't mean you're using the device correctly or safely.. The common e-cig heating elements in general, and their enclosures, simply were not made for such high, dry temperatures. Besides that some are fragile enough to break after just a single use at the temps required for vaping cannabinoids, if those temperatures are reached whether by accident, or intentionally, the patient is almost guaranteed to be inhaling toxic fumes from the surrounding enclosure. It's just not a very economic OR a safe decision! (Not to mention I've seen some nasty burns, resulting from such mods, and uninformed misuse!) Edit - I hope this finally helps to clear up all the confusion!
Regardless of temperature, you shouldn't put bud in any of these devices, because the atomizers they use are not designed to be burned dry. Doing so will only drastically decrease the life of your atomizer. I haven't used every ecig and personal vape pen on the market, but I have used a number of them. I agree with badkittysmiles, regular ecigs work best with glycerine because of the low temperature. I own a volcano, but it isn't very portable and I don't seem to have the best results with concentrates so I stick to bud. However when I leave the house I love to be able to take something with me that is portable and discreet. For this I like the "personal vaporizers, mimicking the design of e-cigs, which are explicitly made for high temp use, to vape pure concentrates and oils!" I like them better than the standard ecigs simply because they are easy to use. The wax is easier to handle imho than the liquid, and melts to a liquid at such a low temperature it is able keeps the atomizer coil moist enough to work for a long time. I have had mine for over a month and no issues of plastic or bad taste. I don't have to hold the button more than 3-5 seconds to get a huge tasty rip of hash oil, maybe that is why I haven't had any issues with plastic, like those who over-heat their atomizers to achieve vaping. Everyone is different and likes to medicate differently, for me its my volcano with bud at my house and my trippystix vape pen with BHO/wax on the go.
Lmao...I already know you CANT put bud in a vape pen...all im saying is that it works in theory, but not in practice. I completely agree. And btw me personally, I STILL wouldnt try putting bud even in some high end vape pen, ceramiced out and all.
Just bought a Logic E cig (10 bucks!) and can't wait to make a glycerine tincture. Just wondering, though... can I use a coffee filter to strain the kief when separating? Oh and badkitty, awesome thread, love your work, will you marry me?
hi I have a few questions : Im not too sure whether i am heatin it right ..am too scared to overheat for fear of losing the THC ... also the tincture is irritating my throat a bit ...is it because i have too much plant matter in the tincture ? Its much darker black / greener than your pics ..and with more suspended matter . BAsically should i heat at higher temps and longer hours ? and should i strain more ? *****Also when i make green fairy do i just dissolve the hash in ever clear and leave it ? or do i have to heat it as well ? the process i had posted earler is as follows . My questions are marked ***** below 1) Proportion : Basic ratio of 1 : 5 , hash : solvent . Appox 7 g weed = 1 g of hash. So if using weed use 7 times hash . Solvent is 2 parts glycerine, 1 part everclear and 1 part distilled water. Though distillied water seems to be turning the tincture milky / cloudy ***** Are my proportions ok ..please advise ..too weak too strong ???? 2) Temperature : 170 to 220 degrees F **** Your note says Heat at 180 - 200 f, for 4 - 6 hours (more time at the lower temp-range, and less time if heating closer to 200). I heated it at 75 *Celsius for a total of 16 hours ..so thats roughly 150 *F 3) Processing time : appox 8 hours to upto 3 days ..some say even a week. **** Your note says 4-6 hours @ 180-200 F ... i did 150 F for 16 hours and ive now left it in a dark corner . Also i heated it on a magnetic stirrer in a heatproof lab bottle with the cap screwed on so i assume the THC hasnt escaped. Also what is the best way of heating the tincture in a crock pot / rice cooker or a lab bottle with the lid / cap on ..isnt there a risk of the thing exploding ..i say this because the pressure cookers in kitchens here seem to release a lot of steam with a loud hiss when making rice ..if it was a canntincture all the THC would have escaped ..so i guess im good with the lab bottle with a cap lightly screwed on .. can i screw on the cap tight ??? 4) Equipment : a) Hotplate magnetic stirrer ( examples given below ) ***** This is a dream machine !!!! IKA Hot Plates/Stirrer C-MAG HS 7 - YouTube Magnetrührer - MR Serie von Heidolph - YouTube b) Beaker with Lid or Open Beaker with tincture bottle for double heating ( ie either putting the material into the beaker with a lid or putting the material into a 50 ml tincture bottle and putting the bottle with the cap screwed on into an open beaker. c) Personal Vaporiser : the E Power Review of the E-Power 510 Electronic Cigarette by E-Cig-Reviews.com Wishing everyone an happy Diwali ( the festival of lights in India ;-) )
first off, Thanks for all the info you have provided for producing thc enriched e-cig juice. i have been using e-cigs for a couple of years and have been mixing my own juices, so i have unflavored, non nicotine PG and VG both on hand . . . i have been a medicinal marijuana patient in AZ since last December and have been wondering how to make this for a while as i see it for sale at quite a few places now, but very pricey . . . so, if you would, please answer a few questions for me . . . 1) i want to use a concentrate, but not all concentrates are made equal either, so which concentrate type works best?? oil, wax, etc. 2) i have heard that using hash oil with vg that it tends to separate as it cools and many people suggest cooling in a centrifuge . . . is this necessary?? and if so, why?? can i make a stronger solution if i do?? 3) in one of you posts you suggest using everclear to thin it out . . . can i use PG for this?? 4) i use a zolt variable voltage mod and am wondering what is the best voltage and resistance (of the atomizer/cartomizer) combination to use?? Thanks in advance!!
first off, Thanks for all the info you have provided for producing thc enriched e-cig juice. i have been using e-cigs for a couple of years and have been mixing my own juices, so i have unflavored, non nicotine PG and VG both on hand . . . i have been a medicinal marijuana patient in AZ since last December and have been wondering how to make this for a while as i see it for sale at quite a few places now, but very pricey . . . so, if you would, please answer a few questions for me . . . 1) i want to use a concentrate, but not all concentrates are made equal either, so which concentrate type works best?? oil, wax, etc. 2) i have heard that using hash oil with vg that it tends to separate as it cools and many people suggest cooling in a centrifuge . . . is this necessary?? and if so, why?? can i make a stronger solution if i do?? 3) in one of you posts you suggest using everclear to thin it out . . . can i use PG for this?? 4) i use a zolt variable voltage mod and am wondering what is the best voltage and resistance (of the atomizer/cartomizer) combination to use?? Thanks in advance!!
This thread confused me. At the moment i need help. I made hash oil and I don't know what to melt it with to create a liquid tincture. My blunt-e oil vape can only vape it when the oil is in a liquid solution. So i extracter pure hash oil from about a half o of weed. Its in a hard like honey form. What do i heat it with? Can I cut it with peanut oil and just heat that up then use a syringe to put it into my ciggs cartrage?
Question: I understand hash tincture works best in e-cigs, however, hash is not readily available in my area. Is the only drawback to e-cigging bud tincs frequent cleaning and/or replacing the atomizer? Because if so, I could live with that. I'm using a Volcano Inferno with both a Tube Tank and drip method, if that matters. Also, what's a good bud-to-glycerine ratio for a knock-your-socks-off potency? I have an 8th of dank at my disposal currently. Or would I just be better off making the tincture for sublingual application? If so, what a high potency ratio for that? Thanks in advance. P.S. First post =) Been researching on this forum for the past three weeks. Finally decided to register. So... hello yall!
Let me start by saying i know little of the tincs and the awesome maths and ideas that have gone into the OPS post, but i know a little about vaping and mixing my own juices. If your in the UK like me you may think hash is that brown stuff made with engine oil and plastic bags. I think, i repeat think that the OP was thinking of green hash when she wrote the post, brown hash in the uk should not be smoked or vaped IMHO. I would go for the ratios above 1g (bud) : 1floz glycerine. DO NOT USE THE LECITHIN if you plan on vaping this The tincs made with glycerine AND NO LECITHIN can be vaped straight man not sure how it would taste, like weed I guess. DO NOT VAPE OIL OF ANY KIND IT WILL MAKE YOU VERY ILL. Im currently trying to find out if you mix some in with a shop bought bottle of juice. If you have good glycerine you will see that the majority of VG juices are as thick as hell. I used distilled water or vodka to cut the viscosity of my ecig juices if they are too thick to be used in tanks for example. In this instance (vapin weed) I think a good LR attomiser and a dripping stance is the way to go.
Okay, thanks for the input. Today, I did a test run with the 1:1 ratio, although I did not try it in my e-cig yet. The only reason why I asked about the ratio is because I've read different opinions about it on these boards. I've read 1:1 but the OP said she only uses this ratio for cooking. I've read 1:1 elsewhere by people who said they use it in their e-cig. OP also mentioned 3:1 for sublingual/buccal use. I've also read 7:5 elsewhere on these boards. But I figure I'd start with 1:1 and work my way up if need be. What about bud tincs vs hash tincs? OP said hash tincs are better for e-cigs because they don't clog your atomizer as much but I really don't mind if that means I just have to clean my e-cig more with a bud tinc. And like I said, hash is proving hard to find in my area which is why I'm going with a bud tinc. As far as diluting goes, I haven't finished my bud tinc yet but it seems like it will end up on the thicker side. I may be wrong but I think I read OP mention somewhere not to dilute your tinc with water. I will get Everclear if I have to but obviously water is cheaper. Speaking of Everclear, you mentioned vodka... can I just use whatever high proof alc I have laying around? Thanks in advance!
@ arpadim thanks for the help. So where is a good local place to get glycerin? Vitamin supplement shop i assume?