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Dupuytren's - The tumors are really shrinking

Discussion in 'Medical Marijuana Usage and Applications' started by Asthmatic, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. #1 Asthmatic, Feb 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2013
    Dupuytren's Contracture is a non-malignant, non-metastasizing tumor like collagen growth associated with the tendons & ligaments of the hand. It can happen pretty much any where in the body and in each location the disease gets a different name. It is thought to be a hereditary condition among people with Norse ancestors that may have traveled into Europe with the "Great Khan". It is also thought to be related to or a form of Keloid Scarring on the tendons and may be associated with Diabetes and Alcoholism.

    It is all over both sides of my family and I've been having trouble with it since the 1980's. I've had it in three places now counting both feet as one place, with the most troublesome place being the tendons leading to the big toe inside the arches of my feet. Surgical removal can make the scaring worse instead of better so I have never been cut for the condition. Until now the only treatment that has helped me was breaking the collagen mass which has been my bench mark 10 on the pain scale. You can get some M.D.'s to do this under anesthesia for frozen shoulder another place I've had this trouble but it is not really as good of an idea as it would appear at first glance due to the risk of broken bones and dislocated joints.

    Any way for the past few years it has presented as a string of pea sized nodules along the tendons described above. Two or three months ago the bottoms of my feet were hurting I assume due to weight loss. I've lost the fat pads in the soles of my feet. So in addition to treating the tops of my feet I started putting the topical cannabis preparation I make for pain on the bottom too thinking it would be a wast of medicine and not penetrate the callouses there. Surprisingly it worked and I began using it nightly as part of my routine. I was inspecting for the nodules last night as part of my diabetic foot care & couldn't find them. :hello: I had my wife double check and she can only find one small lump in my left foot and none in my right.

    I did a search this morning and found this, freshly published on Pubmed.

    Unraveling the signaling pathways promoting fibrosis in Dupuytren's disease reveals TNF as a therapeutic target.
    Unraveling the signaling pathways p... [Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI

    See also:
    Fibromatosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Dupuytren's contracture
    Dupuytren's contracture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Ledderhose's disease
    Plantar fibromatosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  2. Thanks Izzy! It isn't cancer though, it's just cancer like. I've been hoping quietly that it would get better but not really expecting it to.
  3. It's just amazing the list of maladies that cannabis can help.

    I'm dumbfounded even, and I love the stuff!!!
  4. Great news! :yay:(I know that you already know most of this, Asthmatic, but the rest of the readers need to learn about this, too! Thank you for giving me an opportunity to teach what we all should know! ;) )

    Get on Omega 3 to help your body make WORKING CB receptors so the cannabis can work even better! (These guys were just looking at the brain effects, but if it does it in the brain, the same should hold true in the body)

    Nutritional omega-3 deficiency abolishes endocannabinoid-mediated neuronal functions.
    (abst – 2011) Nutritional omega-3 deficiency abolishes endoca... [Nat Neurosci. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

    " In n-3-deficient mice, presynaptic cannabinoid CB(1) receptors (CB(1)Rs) normally responding to endocannabinoids were uncoupled from their effector G(i/o) proteins."

    Translation of that little gem of "Sci-Speak"-

    In mice fed an Omega 3 deficient diet, the CB1 receptors that normally get activated by endocannabids (or THC) had an important piece left flopping free, instead of being firmly attached like it should be!

    OK, if you have a machine and you leave a part loose when it should be bolted down, bad things happen! Same goes with your body! :eek:

    Now what is really bad, is that the average American diet has almost NO Omega 3! Most of us have too many "uncoupled" receptors for optimal health! :(

    [FONT=&quot]O-6 to O-3 ratio[/FONT]

    It takes a month or more for enough CB receptors to be replaced with working ones to get any results! Wish it worked faster, but it simply takes time to make new receptors!

    And as an interesting side note, those CB1 receptors in your brain are the ONLY thing that gets you high on pot! If a receptor doesn't work, then it won't send you the "I am high" message! :smoking: Enough non-functioning receptors can cut into your high! :eek:

    And again, I am so happy that things are progressing in a positive way for you, Asthmatic! :hello:

    Keep us posted! :D

    Granny :wave:
  5. Your help is always welcome.

    I don't know how much more I will have to post about this I'm having trouble finding the last lump my self. I don't have my Dr's watching this issue because I don't want cut for it etc...
  6. @[member="Asthmatic"] Hi, thank you for sharing your story. My mum has been told she has early dupuytrens and will eventually have huge lumps on her hand as well as probable arthritis. We live in the UK so there are no medical programs over here but we are willing to try it, but we don't know much about cannabis oils or using cannabis as a medicine. I would really appreciate it if you could perhaps tell me more about the 'topical cannabis preperation' you use and if possible, how to make it.
    Oh also, she has lymphedema on her entire right arm (her right hand is the one with dupuytrens) and is worried about if using a topical treatment could be bad due to the lymphedema, it means she has no protection whatsoever against infections so even if she gets a tiny paper cut her arm could swell up hugely, would the topical treatment be a risk considering this do you think?
    Thank you
  7. My old profile broke some how and it finally ended up being faster to create a new one.  Sorry for the name change.  Hope the mods weren't mad at me, if they were they never said any thing.
      I'm not sure I'm ready to teach this right now.  It would take me a week or two to write out what I've learned since the last time I wrote out a set of instructions for how to make a topical ointment..  The basics are to mix Hash Oil (Rick Simpson Oil) into a moisturizing body lotion and rub it onto the lumps once or twice a day.  How strong you make it will depend on how high of a dose your mom is comfortable with and that will require her to experiment with it.  Start low dose and make the medicine stronger until she gets relief from arthritis pain.   It will help with pain in about 5 minutes when it is strong enough and is absorbable.  I was just using it to treat pain when I started.  It took a year or so for the tumors to shrink and I was a little surprised that they did.
    Not that speed is a real issue in treating this it will be faster for you to do a search about making cannabis ointments and find someone elses recipe for now.  It will also give you a lot more choices so you can offer your mom a custom medicine for her hands.  She could even use an alcoholic tincture of hemp and have a favorable outcome but there are no guarantees.
  8. I use to have a giant knot in my neck that kept growing then i started smoking weed and it disapperares
  9. @[member="Honokiol"] Thank you for your quick response. Sorry, I'm very new to this and didn't realise it was that complicated! I think we will start of with Cannabalm made using rick simpson oil and just play around with every new batch to see how they compare, probably start with coconut oil as the fatty base.
  10. #11 Honokiol, Oct 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2013
    Making a working topical doesn't have to be complicated, in fact basic topicals are extremely simple.
    Eg. Wash pot in alcohol and rub the alcohol on your body.
    But writing an instruction that covers a large group of choices and why you may wish to use this or add that can be.  Keeping it clear and simple is even harder to write.  Which oils work well and which ones are not so good.  Do you want to use essential oils in your topical and why you might.  Do you want something that will cause some level of intoxication when you use it or do you need a clear head so you can work and drive.  Do you want DMSO or MSM in the medicine?
  11. @[member="Honokiol"]
    Sorry to bother you again, I just wanted to ask as it is important for her that it doesn't cause intoxication, is this entirely down to thc vs cbd levels in the strain you choose to make it? or do some extracting methods produce a produce that gives a heavier high, if it's only to do with strain we should be fine I was just wondering if there's anything to steer clear of.
  12. #13 Honokiol, Oct 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2013
    No bother, someone helped me get some relief if this helps then I'm paying it forward...
    Intoxication is a variable.  I think there is always a little intoxication but it can be very very little.  More like relaxation than intoxication.  I guess I'll try the long answer.  I might be editing this for a while so don't jump to conclusions if it doesn't make sense.
    I don't much mind the intoxication at bed time, I have a sleep disorder so that is when I treat pain.  I make my medicine intoxicating on purpose with a purpose.  Most of the time the intoxication helps me with sleep.  Treating last thing at bed time can hide unwanted side effects as long as they remain mild your mom can sleep through them if she has them at all.
    The variables include Cannabinoid or Cannabinoids used. CBD is nice if you can get it but there are other things we can do. There is also THC-a which is the carboxyl form of THC and CBN which is what THC breaks down to over time..   How they are processed, how strong the preparation is, and how much medicine is being used to cover how much area we will be treating all affect the outcome.
    Since we are making the least intoxicating medicine we can with Cannabis THC-a is a good choice.  Many would say no intoxication. We need raw fresh cured herb, ( +/- un-decarboxylated ) Here is a reference for the word.
    Decarboxylation is a process that occurs over time. For now Unheated Fresh Dry Pot is considered un-decarboxylated.  Most people worry about getting to a consistent dose.  I think the easy way to do that when working with THC-a is to sift keif.  It is a make dust and save it process I wont write here.  A quick search and your golden.  It is easier if the keif has not been pressed into Hash but Hash can work if you have to buy your concentrate.  Making keif dust with dry ice will boost production and cut time and partially but not fully decarboxylate the dust.  If your patient is wholly adverse and gets a little tipsy this can be a source of it being a problem but middle aged pot can be too.  Remember that it is dose over area and if it is just her palms she is not likely to notice a little THC but might object as dose goes up.
    From here you choose your solvent, "Alcohol or Oil" the process is the same either way.  Weigh and measure all ingredients then keep careful notes so you can repeat good formulations.  Mix your indigence together.  Cannabinoids are basically heavy oils.  Unless your using Hash this should go pretty quickly.  Minutes for alcohol oil will take longer and really we have some time.  Some people think Kief is like itching powder I don't notice my self but most people will want to filter what we just made.  At least when I'm working with Alcohol if I let it sit for a while the unwanted plant material we want to filter out will go to the bottom in an hour or so.  This is also where the oil taking a little longer is not much of a big deal, I'd let it settle at least over night.  It is lots less work and goes faster in the long run to filter the gunk last if you want to at all.  Most of what you want to get rid of can be taken out with one of those metal sits on your cup or mason jar coffee filters but you can use a paper coffee filter if you want your product cleaner. 
    If you use a "Cannabis Holy Oil Recipe" to get here the medicine is done when you have finished filtering it.  Put it in an eye dropper bottle so she can measure her dose in drops and store it in the refrigerator.
    If you go with Alcohol think about a Bay Rum Recipe mix the kief in at the end before you settle and filter the product.
    I wont knock CBD if you can get it.  I work with the cannabinoids I can get that I'm not allergic to.  Not all of them are exclusive to Cannabis.  β-caryophyllene available in Cannabis is a fairly common cannabinoid it shares with lots of other plants in their essential oils.  β-caryophyllene only lands on the CB2 receptor which helps with pain but is not intoxicating.  Among other interesting things Cloves and Cinnamon essential oils make good sources of β-caryophyllene as well as members of the mint family Encl. Lavender.  The aroma therapy people aren't nut's, they are just vaping a different Cannabinoid from a different plant.  In your Bay Rum or Holy Oil these oils serve multiple purposes.  They are solvent like and help the THC-a pass through the skin, they are Cannabinoids them selves and so a part of the medicine.  My experience is that the β-caryophyllene makes the THC-a work in a sustained release exercise dependent way for about 22 Hrs.  The upshot being that if she rubs it on her hands tonight then tomorrow when she is using them she will get a warm tingle where she was rubbing the medicine and have less pain if the medicine is strong enough and she is using enough.  Be sure she is not sensitive before you choose your oil and a few drops go a long way.  If it pleases her she will use it more.
    Because the essential oils are solvent like when I make Kief Holy Oil I add my essential oils first before my main carrier oil.  If you like the oil as is then store refrigerated unless you want to talk about CBN.  CBN is what THC turns into over time and it is still pain relieving though like THC-a not very intoxicating.  CBN is known to enhance the pain relieving effects of THC and CBD when the three are used as pairs or a group but it's reaction with THC-a if there is one is not yet known to me today.  If you leave the Holy Oil out at room temperature for a month or so and the THC will change to CBN. You could then mix the aged medicine with a freshly made batch and have both Cannabinoids
    Other plant Cannabinoids are found in Echinacea and some of it's close relatives which contain something called Alkamides. They also land on the CB2 receptor.  Used by Native Americans as topical pain killer in the form of a poultice it could be considered a reasonable addition to the Bay Rum if your mother is not allergic through a ready made tincture.  Same answer for Magnolia tree bark which has 4′-O-methylhonokiol in it.  Some people find Magnolia tree bark sedating and she may not like that.  You could also work with raw plant material if you want to with the Bay Rum recipie.
    I would start at a gram of kief in about 100 ml. of finished product and be ready to adjust up or down by 50 %.
    see also:
    hope this helps.
  13. #14 alexpiffman, Mar 29, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2014
    im a young type one diabetic with neuropathy and I want to thank u for this useful info I was going to make a cannabis glycerin and with the left over bud I'm going to rub on my feet?

    Piff man***
    :hello:   treating neuropathy is slow patient work.  Mine is mostly gone now and my type 2 is in remission.  There is more active help over here.  They are a good bunch

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