Drooping Leaves (First grow need some help!)

Discussion in 'Hydroponic Growing' started by 420Mentee, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. Hello! Can any pros help me identify the problem with my plant?

    After some research I think it might be early signs of light burn as the leaves have turned down away from the light or a phosphorus deficiency due to the dark green splotches on the leaves. It has been 21 days since planting and 19 days since sprouting. Roots look a little brown but I thought that might be from the nutes. I've kept temps around 68 degrees, nutes around 280 PPM, PH around 5.5. Any help is greatly appreciated! I am keeping a grow journal of everything I do as well so let me know if you need more info.

    IMG_6632.JPG IMG_6630.JPG IMG_6628.JPG IMG_6627.JPG
  2. Just wanted to update this incase anyone has the same problem. The plant was showing signs of lack of nutrients and I couldn't figure out why because it had everything it needed, the ph was fine and the ppm was stable. I figured out that the plant wasn't taking in water or nutrients because the roots got infected. I started the top feed system I had and it grew new roots up top that were not infected so the new growth came in ok and I got some hydroguard for the base roots. It's only been a day and they already look much better. I think everything should be good to go in 2 more days. I am also supposed to start training it now too but I think I should wait until it's 100%.
  3. I think it's that rooting plug staying too wet. That makes for a reservoir of pathogens inside it that is difficult to eliminate. Any sort of absorbent rooting plug needs to be high enough out of the hydroton and able to adequately drain.

    That and - yeah, bennies or sterile rez. Absolutely necessary or root disease takes hold.
  4. Oh interesting. Thanks for the insight. I thought it was supposed to stay wet. I'll lower the reservoir water level a bit and that should keep it dry.
  5. Hydroguard should help, I always use that and silica blast, also, keep a air chamber of 1/2 to 1" between the bottom of the pot and the water line. Always add the hydroguard first followed by the silica blast.
  6. There's typically no reason to leave an air gap between the netpot and the nutrients. An air gap only causes useable roots to turn into which ropes than no longer exchange nutes but only transport them. It causes a loss of useable root zone. The solution is your medium - it would be absurd if someone said to dig out an inch of soil, or coco, from under your root crown and make the roots dangle through that space - to just get to the medium on the other side. It's a common myth that this air gap is needed - but nobody can explain why... The most common stated reason is so the roots will stretch for the bottom. They'll do that all on their own, with no air gap. I veg in 5 gal buckets and flower in an Under Current RDWC. They recommend leaving the level 2" ABOVE the base so that lateral roots continue forming all around the netpot instead of just underneath it. 20% more room area means 20% more growth. Who doesn't need that?

    Also, mix silica into water first, then any ca/mg, then A, then B - then final pH adjust - THEN add Hydroguard last. You don't want to put those bacteria through the pH swings of the Silica, then A nutes... Add the bacteria once it's stable and suitable for plants - then it's suitable for root bacteria. Silica first because it's very high in the pH scale, then ca/mg - also high pH. A nutes, again high pH. Then B nutes, low pH... If you do the silica out of order you risk raising the pH of your mixed nutes causing precipitation and lockout of nutrients. Sure, you can pH adjust at the end, but some of your nutes will already be locked out.
  7. Wow thanks for the info! That makes a lot of sense and lines up with what I have been reading. I've made a lot of mistakes so far for my first grow, but she's still pushing through. I think I will get some of the Silica. I've been very happy with the results from the hydroguard. For my next run I think I am going to switch from Floragrow nutes to an all botanicare line.
  8. Good God, I've been doing this wrong for 10 years, I appreciate you clarifying this. This would explain why these plants look so terrible.

    Attached Files:

  9. I didn't say it was wrong I just said that there is no good reason for doing it and I wasn't telling YOU how to grow. You said something to the OP that I disagreed with and I explained why. Just because you've been doing something for 10 years doesn't make it science and it doesn't mean that there isn't a better way.

    If you want to, explain the science behind doing it... Not the myth - but the science. Instead of a snarky passive aggressive comment, why not explain the other point of view? Explain why we DON'T want more root surface area. There isn't a good reason.

    And we can post pics all day - so, then I must be doing it wrong which is why my plants look terrible...


    IMG_1284.jpg IMG_1544.jpg
  10. It's not that complicated.
  11. Because you have no explanation and don't even know WHY you think an air gap is needed.

    My point exactly. You took the time to reply but give no answers of substance.

    In fact, most of your initial answer from mixing sequence, when to add Hydroguard were off target

    And you claim 10 years growing experience?
  12. Soffer and Burger [Soffer et al., 1988] studied the effects of dissolved oxygen concentrations on the formation of adventitious roots in what they termed “aero-hydroponics.” They utilized a 3-tier hydro and aero system, in which three separate zones were formed within the root area. The ends of the roots were submerged in the nutrient reservoir, while the middle of the root section received nutrient mist and the upper portion was above the mist. Their results showed that dissolved O2 is essential to root formation, but went on to show that for the three O2 concentrations tested, the number of roots and root length were always greater in the central misted section than either the submersed section or the un-misted section. Even at the lowest concentration, the misted section rooted successfully.
    Large-scale aero-hydroponic systems follow the design of the commercial installation at Ein Gedi. These commercial systems consist of "canals" or growing chambers with plant sites on top. A pump provides the pressure to drive a system of sprayers to supply the aerial roots, while the submerged roots hang into the flowing nutrient in the canal.

    Both of these systems share fundamental characteristics, which define the aero-hydroponic method. The plants are supported above the flowing nutrient. The roots hang down through an air gap in which nutrient is sprayed, then into the moving nutrient solution below the air gap. The nutrient sprayed through the air gap is not so much intended to feed the plant, but rather to infuse oxygen into the nutrient solution wherein the feeder roots remain constantly submerged. It is these submerged roots in oxygen rich nutrient that provides most of the nutrition and oxygen for the plant.
  13. I check it out. I appreciate THAT much more than just attitude.
  14. Ok... One - this isn't a battle of wits or who can pull what from the internet. Explain to me WHAT you think that air gap does for YOU. You still haven't explained a single benefit of it.

    AND - you definitely didn't read that study because it most definitely does NOT support your theory in any way whatsoever.

    - The study was comparing different levels of DO and the impact on rooting cuttings. It wasn't even on the growth of roots over the life of a plant - it wasn't a study of air gap vs. no air gap. They used a variety of methods to achieve different DO levels, and then measured the new root formation of a cutting.
    - The air gap that you were referring to actually has a spinning shaft that draws up water and using centrifugal force, sprays a mist of solution in that air gap - AS THE ONLY MEANS OF AERATION... They weren't using an air stone in the solution and achieving any sort of benefit from an air gap. This was only ONE of their numerous methods that were employed - and the only one that even mentions an air space at all.

    You cherry picked phrases from a study and strung them together to make some form of a weak case for your position. All I wanted to know what what you thought that air space did. I asked you to explain YOUR position, I didn't ask you to go through gyrations to discredit mine. That's still all you've failed to do. If you're going to offer up advice at least be willing to discuss it.

    I'll still stand with my point that I'm yet to hear any REAL science behind why an air gap would be beneficial.

    Here's the abstract from that study but I'll post a link to the whole thing...

    PDF of whole study -http://www.scott.k12.ky.us/userfile...cts Of Dissolved Oxygen-Literature Review.pdf

    Cuttings of Fictis benjamins L. and Chrvsanthemum x morifolium(Dendranthema grandiflora tzyelev.) were rooted in aero-hydroponics to study the effect of dissolved oxygen concentrations in the range of 8 mg-liter. (ambient saturation) to 0 mg-liter-'. The results of this study indicate that dissolved oxygen is essential to root formation and root growth. Woody (Ficus) and herbaceous (Chrysanthemum) cuttings responded similarly. Lowering the dissolved oxygen concentration increased the time required to form adventitious roots, reduced rooting percentages, reduced numbers of roots formed per cutting, and reduced average root lengths. Comparisons between stirred and unstirred water suggested the development of an area of depleted oxygen concentration (boundary layer) at the stem-water interface on cuttings immersed in unstirred water. Cuttings in water stirred constantly rooted sooner and formed more roots than did those in unstirred water. Maximum rooting occurred in misted (high dissolved oxygen concentrations) sections of cuttings suspended in the aero-hydroponics chambers. Chemical name used: potassium salt of 1H-indole-3- but-vric acid (K-IBA). Any medium used for rooting must provide mechanical support, water, and oxygen. Whereas a great deal of information is available regarding the importance of water in the rooting process, information on the effects of oxygen is relatively scarce. The actual requirement for 02, and its availability in the rooting medium during adventitious root formation have seldom been studied, although the importance of 02, in supporting the intensive metabolic processes associated with root formation and subsequent growth is well-recognized. Zimmerman (14) has shown that cuttings from various plant species required different levels of 02, for rooting in water. Willow (Salix pendula) and English ivv (Hedera helix) in tap water required 02, concentrations of 1 and 10 mg-liter 02, respectively. Zimmerman achieved dissoived 02, concentrations greater than ambient saturation levels by bubbling pure 02 into water (14). Measurements of 02 concentrations were intermittent and, in some instances, after roots emerged, thus affecting dissolved 02, concentrations. Tinga (13) injected gas mixtures of N2 containing 0%, 5%, 10%, and 15% 02 into water culture and showed increased rooting of carnation with assumed dissolved 02 concentrations (no direct dissolved 02 measurements were made). Using Chrysanthemum, he compared rooting in water bubbled with air (21% 02 ) and rooting in water containing no 02 (bubbled N2 in water) and found that rooting occurred only in the presence of 02 (13). In none of these studies was the water surrounding the cuttings agitated. If cuttings use dissolved 02 from the water during the rooting process as do roots, the lack of agitation might lead to an area of depleted 02 concentrations at the stem-water interface. Regardless of the absence of substantial data on the specific requirements for dissolved 02 in the rooting process, it has been shown that periodic aeration with 02 of the propagation medium improved survival and rooting of rootstock cuttings (2). Komissarov (4) reported on gravel culture as a successful method of rooting woody cuttings and suggested water culture as a simple and efficient rooting method worthy of practical application. Experiments with water culture, in which the water was changed every 2 days, showed that out of 30 species tested, 20 gave almost equal percentages of rooting in water and in sand. Some species rooted more rapidly in water and developed more vigorous roots than in sand. No reference was made to dissolved oxygen concentrations in the rooting medium. These findings imply an important role for 02 in the formation of adventitious roots and indicate the need for further study of the effects of 02 on rooting. The objectives of the present study were three-fold: 1) to determine the effects of dissolved 02 concentrations (from air) within the range of its solubility in water on rooting of woody (Ficus) and

    Effects of Dissolved Oxygen Concentrations in Aero-hydroponics on the Formation and Growth of Adventitious Roots. Available from: Effects of Dissolved Oxygen Concentrations in Aero-hydroponics on the Formation and Growth of Adventitious Roots [accessed Jun 20, 2017]."
  15. Holy fuck this guy just went beastmode.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Ha!

    The study was interesting though. From 1988 when they were figuring all of this out. Pretty cool

Share This Page