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Dragon Lite.....another Tincture Thread

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by PsychedelicSam, May 15, 2013.

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  1. #1441 PsychedelicSam, Apr 14, 2019
    That actually is going to depend on how you use it. If you use it sublingually you should start feeling it within minutes if not seconds. If you use it in a drink or ingest in another fashion then it will be more like any other edible, maybe a little shorter, 1-2 hours. :)
     
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  2. #1442 winks00, May 30, 2019
    @PsychedelicSam
    I have a couple more tincture questions
    I am trying to make some gummy bears and was going to use Vegetable glycerin so there's no alcohol in the mixture...
    Is there a simple VG Tincture method?? Can the VG be reduced for strength? Would it be better to make the green dragon with 190 proof extractonol, then reduce until all alcohol is gone?? I want to make gummies with a good flavor like strawberry or berry....
     
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  3. #1443 PsychedelicSam, May 30, 2019
    I'm sorry, winks00, but I've never been that good with VG. I just never seemed to get the hang of it. Some people do use the solvent transfer method of evaporating the alcohol but the VG itself will not reduce. You might try a little at first to see how it comes out. :)
     
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  4. #1444 Scopetonic, May 30, 2019
    Psam,

    It's been a while since I've been in the forums. Glad to see you're still here making tincture pros out of all of us.

    Do you find any difference in your decarbed vs nondecarbed tinctures? I remember reading a long time ago that the tincture would decarb naturally in alcohol in about 3 months time. In your opinion is it worth the wait to do the no heat extraction method to preserve terpenes?
     
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  5. #1445 PsychedelicSam, May 30, 2019
    It's good to hear from you again, Scopetonic. I definitely prefer the natural decarb for 4 months if I have the time to do it. Forturnately, there's an option these days. You can now buy terpene blends or isolates and add them to your previously decarbed products. I use them to enhance some of the effects like myrcene and limonene for extra sedative properties, alpha-pinene for energy, uplift. :)
     
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  6. #1446 Dseb0127, Jun 24, 2019
    Guess i should've just used the search tool to begin with and i wouldn't have had to ask you this for what is I'm sure the millionth time lol. Great info i cant wait ti try this out. Thank you!

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  7. #1447 PsychedelicSam, Jun 25, 2019
    I'm glad that you were able to find it. I've got the link in the Index of the other thread but not the guide but I guess it's time to fix that. Let us know what you think. :)
     
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  8. #1448 Dseb0127, Jun 25, 2019
    I definitely will. Thanks again!

    Sent from my LG-SP320 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
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  9. #1449 polamnus, Sep 9, 2019
    Hi Sam, newly registered here but I've been reading and learning here for a long time. I am currently mid-stream in making your GD recipe. I've done my 2nd wash and collected my infused 190 proof Everclear but have not yet reduced.

    Also, apologies if this has been mentioned already, but I searched and searched and couldn't find an answer.

    Your recipe calls for 7g of source material, and a reduction to about 3 fluid ounces, or 90ml.

    Now I always figure a very rough average of 15% THC by weight. Assuming a "fudge factor" for spillage, wastage, and incomplete infusion, of, let's say 75%...multiplied together (100 x 0.15 x 0.75) of 11.25% THC by weight. I always err on the side of being conservative with these things, so let's say round numbers, 10% THC by weight after all is said and done. If it ends up being more, that's gravy, but otherwise it's not disappointing. Correct me if that figure seems wildly unrealistic!

    OK so at your rate of 2.25g/ 1 fl Oz...that same formula says:
    2,250mg x 10% = 225mg
    225mg / 30ml = 7.5 mg per ml
    Isn't that awfully low? Considering a "Colorado Serving" is 10mg.

    I presently have, pre-reduction, 14g flower in 150ml of 190 proof
    ( 14,000mg x 10% ) / 150ml = 9.33 mg/ml

    My goal had been 10mg/ml, assuming I'd reduce it by half and achieve 20mg/ml post-reduction but I used a little extra Everclear to rinse out my tools.

    However, I note this is almost 3x the potency of your original recipe. It's safe to say I'm not a long-term user, though I was a smoker in college and after, I've since become a runner and don't want to take the hit to my lungs that smoking gives me, so I'm pursuing this method.

    For reference, I'm using the Ardent Lift/Nova to do my decarb. Generally one 10mg store-bought edible is enough for a pleasant experience, 2 10mg edibles are enough to keep me pleasantly sat down for a long while. That's why I was targeting 20mg/ml so I could take anywhere from 0.25 - 1.0ml for whatever effect I was looking to achieve.

    Many thanks for all your work, I'm not arguing against your experience which is clearly extensive, just hoping to understand and dial my batch into where I want it.

    My ultimate goal is to do a solvent transfer to coconut oil and put that into caps, but I want to get the dosage correct before I get to the oil part since you can't really reduce it from there.

    thanks much!
     
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  10. #1450 PsychedelicSam, Sep 10, 2019
    Sorry, Polamnus. I got busy and spaced out.

    You have your calculations pretty close and I was equally as surprised as you when I actually figured the dosage although higher. It just seemed so low. And to top it all off, I recommended only about 8 drops out of that . However, that concentration is designed for new users and also to illustrate the power of the alcohol absorption. I didn't want folks to start running up their tolerance too quickly.

    When I devised this system I didn't have access to the lab and based my concentration on grams per oz of alcohol. I started at 2.75g/oz for myself and over a couple of years worked that to 4g/oz which turned out to be a good concentration by coincidence. Once I started testing I was able to correlate potency with g/oz.

    If you have some material that's 20% and use an ounce for GD. Reduce it to 7oz, 28g ÷ 4g/oz = 7oz GD. The potency just happens to be 20mg/ml. If your material was 15% then your GD at 4g/oz is 15mg/ml. And so on. Don't ask my why it's like that but a couple of hundred lab tests say it's so. There's a couple of point margin of error but that's to be expected. It doesn't matter if you started with more alcohol since it's the end volume that counts.

    Let's use your 14g example. If it's about 15% then that's the value we'll use. Loss is already included in the talley. You have 150ml, 5oz, before reduction. Now, if you reduce that 5oz to 3.5oz, 150ml to 105ml, you will have ~15mg/ml. You had 14g and want 4g/oz, 14÷4=3.5oz. To make it 20mg/ml you would need to reduce it another 15ml. If you wanted it to be 30mg/ml then you would reduce that 3.5oz by half. You would only have 1.75oz but it would be 30mg/ml or 900mg/oz.

    Now lets see how that adds up the other way. Let's use the original as 15%, 150mg/g, and we have 14g of it, 2100mg total. My tests for GD show a yield of 75% across the board with a loss of 25%. If we calculate 75% of 2100mg we'll get 1575mg for your GD. This is the total available in your 14g GD whether you leave it at 150ml or reduce it all the way down to rso tar. Your mg/ml will depend on your final volume and is in your control.

    Now, let's check how these correlate to your calculations. Using the 4g/mg scale we came up with there was a total of 1575mg according to the final calculation of 1.75oz @ 900mg/oz. Using the actual yield leaves us at 1575mg for your final GD. Using two different systems these check out the same. Your calculation is using the total weight of the flower instead of the total cannabinoids. Your 14g is not 14,000mg. It's only 2100mg.

    I've tried to make it clear that the 2.25 is only the beginning. In fact, I now recommend to reduce to 2oz per 7g which is 3.5g/oz if you have any kind of tolerance and even more than that for dabbers. All these numbers can be confusing and hard to explain. I'm sure I'm lacking but I'll try to clear up any confusion if needed. My numbers are lab verified but I'm afraid Einstein might have a problem with how I try to explain it.

    Your Nova is good so you have no decarb issues at least. :sneaky:
     
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  11. #1451 polamnus, Sep 10, 2019
    Thanks so much, Sam. That really helps shore up some of my calculations. 1575mg is where I'd arrived at using rough estimates of 15% THC by weight and 25% loss for imperfect transfer, so a factor of 11.25% of the original weight of the vegetable matter. I'd used 10% as an "easy math" place holder. I also figure if you estimate low and it ends up slightly higher than that, that's OK...estimating high and arriving low is setup for disappointment though :)

    I did try 1ml of my pre-reduced GD and got some nice and comfortable effects, though largely background. I would have to guess maybe on the order of what I would get out of a 5-10mg commercial edible. With 1,400mg per 150ml, that's 9.33mg/ml, not bad, but I do want to reduce it by half - at least - to get me closer to 20mg/ml, as I suspect that's my "sweet spot" with regard to self-titration.

    If my ultimate goal is a solvent transfer into oil for caps, do you still recommend adding the total volume of oil to the GD, then doing the reduction? I've read some people reduce it to near RSO levels first, then add their oil on top of that. It feels like adding the oil to the GD, then doing the reduction is less likely to expose the "naked" thc oil to too much heat, therefore less chance of degradation.

    Once again, many and sincere thanks for all you contribute. I've been lurking here for months just absorbing information and reading, taking notes. It's been an invaluable resource and I really appreciate the excellent documentation, testing, and time you've taken to go out of your way to help people like myself.

    I'll let ya know how things work out, but so far they're looking good!

    Sincere Regards,
    Pol
     
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  12. #1452 PsychedelicSam, Sep 10, 2019
    I personally like to concentrate my GD to my working potency first before I do a solvent transfer and heat is the reason why. I don't like to use any more heat than I need to, especially using 190 proof alcohol. With 151 you don't have much of a choice but to reduce it to tar which exposes the cannabinoids to longer and higher heat. I do think it best to find a happy medium for your transfer concentration that will give you the optimal satisfaction. Different factors are at play if you're using it for a recipe or as a strong oil tincture using drops, different ratios. :)
     
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  13. #1453 Scopetonic, Oct 12, 2019
    PSam,

    I'm curious if you've ever tried reducing a tincture down to near RSO then reconstituting in a more palatable alcohol like plain vodka to reduce the burn when taking directly in the mouth.

    The only complaint I get about the tincture is that it burns when taken directly and I wonder if the reconstituting would reduce the burn of the partially reduced 190 proof. I know that you mix with water in a shot glass to reduce the burn, but I plan to try the above method unless you or others have tried it before and had a poor outcome.

    Otherwise I will try and post the results soon.
     
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  14. #1454 PsychedelicSam, Oct 12, 2019
    Nope, never tried it. I lean towards putting it in my coffee or tea or other beverages so it hasn't been a priority. But there is one thing that you may want to consider. The further you reduce your GD the less burn there is as you approach RSO. The less 190 proof alcohol you have the less it burns. Reduce it more and use less, much less.

    Won't hurt to try that. Let us know how it turns out. There's lots of folks who would like to hear about that. :)
     
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  15. #1455 Scopetonic, Oct 12, 2019
    I'll also be doing my first natural decarbed version. Is there any drying of the buds necessary in preparation since they won't be dried during decarb?
     
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  16. #1456 PsychedelicSam, Oct 12, 2019
    Just be sure the buds are dry first since you're not decarbing. You don't want the extra moisture that comes from the fresh material. Dry enough for smoking but not cured. :)
     
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  17. #1457 Scopetonic, Oct 28, 2019
    Psam,

    The attempt to reduce a non decarbed dragon down to near RSO then reconstitute with plain vodka has so far been an utter failure.

    Approximately 1 ounce of quality popcorn and trim was frozen and mixed with enough 190 proof ethanol in the usual fashion according to Psam's guides. The only exception is that there was no decarb and no heat during evaporation. Only a fan was used.

    The wonderfully transparent green dragon was reduced far beyond where I would normally take it until there was only a very small amount of white cloudy mixed with some solid and semi solid brown precipitate.

    8 ounces plain vodka was then mixed back into the over reduced dragon in attempt to get it all to go back into solution.

    So far out is still a white milky liquid with about 1 gram of brown precipitate. I will let this sit covered overnight and see what happens. Otherwise I'll reduce again down all the way then reconstitute with 190 proof and hope that it can be salvaged.
     
  18. #1458 PsychedelicSam, Oct 28, 2019
    I didn't really think that would work real well with all that extra water once it got down to the oil. You could have let it completely evaporate but it wouldn't have made any difference. The oil won't dissolve real well in the vodka. However, you could probably add your 190 GD to the vodka instead of the gooey oil for a better blend.

    It shouldn't hurt your cannabinoids to reduce it all down again. Just time consuming. At least we'll have the answer if anyone else asks about it. :ey:
     
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  19. #1459 bonniesicker, Nov 2, 2019
    Must the herb be completely dried and cured for a successful extraction to be made or could one successfully extract thc et cetera from fresh herb.

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  20. #1460 PsychedelicSam, Nov 2, 2019
    It should be dry but doesn't need to be cured. Fresh material can be used for some concentrates but the excess moisture will mess with other extractions like tinctures and oils. You can dry it in a low oven if you're in a hurry but it will make a greener extraction. :)
     
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