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Dragon Lite.....another Tincture Thread

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by PsychedelicSam, May 15, 2013.

Page 69 of 88
  1. #1361 PsychedelicSam, Oct 31, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
    Welcome to the club. I'm glad that you're safe. You really should never use alcohol around gas because of that reason. Get a hotplate or use your crockpot/rice cooker. Be sure that you always put a cloth or pad under your jar so that it doesn't rest directly on the hot bottom and you've got ventilation.

    I did something similar when I was first starting out and actually caught my pants on fire but it went out quickly. An alcohol fire is quick burning and isn't as bad as if it was a vapor flash from lack of ventilation. That's what mine was. I had forgotten to turn on my fans and even though I was using my rice cooker as a double boiler, I jostled the inner lining and the vapor found the hot inner coil and...poof! I was lucky it was contained by the cooker but the flash was enough to cause me to spill my GD which caught my floor and pants leg on fire before going out. It could have been much worse. I had just had back surgery and was on a walker and wasn't moving very fast. I learned my lesson. extincteur.gif
     
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  2. #1362 Joker1121, Oct 31, 2018
    Wow! So glad you're OK. Welcome to Grasscity. Thanks for telling your story.
     
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  3. #1363 Joinerc, Nov 1, 2018
    Dude no gas ovens or open flames

    I’m glad U R a fast thinker. Things could have been totally burned off. PJ?
     
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  4. #1364 Purpleturtle91, Nov 1, 2018
    Lol, yes, you can see my PJ's on the floor. Woke up on my day off and decided to start cooking...My hair stunk, so I was a little scared to look in the mirror. But fortunately, just a burnt thumb, hair still intact. Whoops. Lesson learned. :oops:
     
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  5. #1365 VictoriaWinters, Nov 8, 2018
    Hello PSam. I've made two tinctures with your recipe successfully. The last one I made, I used during post-surgical recovery and it actually helped with pain management surprisingly well.
    The strain I used was White Widow which was approx. 50/50 CBD/THC. It allowed me to recover without the use of opioids. I told my surgeon and she said that more and more people are doing this and that their recovery is faster than those who rely on the opioids, which create problems that interfere with surgical recovery. Now I have another, more complicated surgery coming up in two weeks and I need to make more tincture.

    There is one question I have about the tincture recipe. It says it is for 7 grams of weed, but I can't afford to buy that much at a time. As a result, I'm having trouble getting the alcohol-plant ratios correct. Your recipe says 3 oz alcohol/ 7 grams plant. What if I only have 1 gram, or 3? The current weed I bought was 3 grams. It is a strain called Critical Mass (THC 7.95/CBD 13.87) I've smoked a tiny bit of it, but do not prefer this method of ingestion.

    So is the principle of the alcohol to use just enough to cover the plant material, or does it have to be more precise than that?
    Thank you for all your hard work. You are empowering people to have a better quality of life and less suffering.
    Vikki
     
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  6. #1366 PsychedelicSam, Nov 8, 2018
    It's good to hear from you again. I'm glad that you had such good results with it although I'm sorry to hear that you're going to have more surgery and will need to do it again.

    There's no reason that you can't make an equally effective tincture with less material, even just a gram. The biggest challenge is the processing because of loss by spillage or absorption of the filters. Because you only have a little bit to start with, every drop is precious.

    If you use one gram or 3g, the important part is to use enough alcohol for a good extraction. You can't use too much and it is best if you use a larger volume. If you have 3-4 grams then I suggest that you use the same ratio as the standard 7g guide, 3oz each run. This will allow you get a full extraction but because of the extra alcohol, you have a more dilute solution and any absorption by the filters has less impact. You then reduce your tincture to the concentration you want.

    For 1g you wouldn't really want to use that much alcohol, maybe 2oz or even 1 per run but you'll need to be careful that you don't lose too much of it since you're not going to have a lot to begin with. When you filter you may want to trim down the paper so there's less absorption and also wet your filter with fresh alcohol so that the filter will already be wet and not absorb your tincture. Just remember that you can't use too much alcohol. It's better to use too much because you just evaporate off the excess to get your concentration.

    Alcohol for larger batches can get extremely expensive and the volume I suggest for those is based on that mostly, taking the loss situation into consideration.

    Best wishes on the upcoming surgery, VictoriaWinters. peace (2015_10_01 04_32_03 UTC).gif
     
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  7. #1367 mook2420, Nov 8, 2018
    Going to be doing some more testing myself in a few days if I can find the time.

    It is $40 for (10) 1:1 THC CBD capsules at my local dispensary. I like them and it's convenient to buy them... However using more than one a day for my conditions it's too expensive for me to really have enough.

    I am going to make some capsules with a gram of concentrate that is around $60 and see how it all pans out.

    For sure it will be more bang for my buck and at that low of a dose per capsule I should have quite a few more than 10!
     
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  8. #1368 PsychedelicSam, Nov 8, 2018
    That should be a much more economical solution. If you get a gram of CBD isolate then you can make your own THC/CBD caps. A gram would give you over ninety 10mg doses. What's the dose of your dispensary caps? :huh:
     
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  9. #1369 mook2420, Nov 8, 2018
    10mg THC and 10mg CBD only!
     
  10. #1370 PsychedelicSam, Nov 8, 2018
    Well, heck. You should be able to get at least 70 caps at 10/10. :thumbsup:
     
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  11. #1371 mook2420, Nov 8, 2018
    That's what I'm hoping for, woot woot! Thanks PSam!
     
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  12. #1372 VictoriaWinters, Nov 10, 2018
    Thank you so much!!! I so very much appreciate what you are doing here, helping to educate all of us. I live in a legal state (Washington) and having Cannabis readily available has been a quality of life saver for so many people here. CBD has enabled me to get off of SSRI antidepressants (on them 19 years) for good. I have a neighbor here who has her card and grows in her extra bedroom and makes her own stuff. The only problem is how expensive it is (I am on Medicaid so have a very hard time affording it). I want to get a medical card so I can at least not pay the tax. I would have to find a prescribing doctor somewhere first. Most doctors won't, even though they applaud your use of it if it works for you. Weird.

    Anyway, thank you again!
     
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  13. #1373 VictoriaWinters, Nov 10, 2018
    Ooo I was assuming using a rice cooker was entirely safe! Good to know that you still need LOTS of ventilation and I'll be sure NOT to touch it. SCARY. Vikki
     
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  14. #1374 PsychedelicSam, Nov 10, 2018
    I was on a walker and lost my balance for a moment. Normally the liner stays in place as long as it has water in it to weigh it down. Ventilation is necessary especially if you have pilot lights in the vicinity. It wouldn't have happened to me if I'd had the fan on. Just use your common sense. :)
     
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  15. #1375 BananaJoe123, Nov 29, 2018
    Hi P'Sam
    I thought I'd drop by and offer an update report on how your process has performed over the last year. As you may recall, my wife has a neurological disease that resulted in daily spasm attacks. You taught me how to create a high quality tincture that I reduced in MCT oil that literally stopped the spasms in their tracks!
    It continues to work now, even a year later.
    So my adult daughter has Cerebral Palsy and it's degenerative and debilitating. I mixed up some Cindy-99, a little Durbin Poison for her spasticity, and a dose of high concentration CBD oil for her in a tincture. The results were absolutely AMAZING! She now walks with a little support and only uses a wheelchair on long excursions. She can even sit "indian style" on the floor and get back up.
    I could go on because I'm now creating strain specific tinctures for several people with PTSD, and other debilitating problems. Whenever someone asks, I always tell them to ignore the internet and follow P'Sams directions EXACTLY.
    Thank you my friend. You've made a world of difference in many people's lives.
     
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  16. #1376 BananaJoe123, Nov 29, 2018
    Sorry, I had a question about CBDs.
    Is isolate powder good to use? I'm now using 10g CBD in 2 ounces of MCT. Would like to get the highest consistent quality and concentration. Thanks
    Oh, I even created a tincture for my 15 year old dog. LOL
    She was almost on her deathbed so I now give her some tincture with glucosamine and chondroitin in a peanut butter base and she acts 5 year younger. The dog now races up the stairs and barks if I don't feed her fast enough. Another win for tincture!
     
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  17. #1377 PsychedelicSam, Nov 29, 2018
    It's good to hear from you again, BananaJoe123, especially when you have such great results but I can't take the credit for that. I just provided the basic guide and it was your research and creativity that has made the difference. It really does my heart good when I hear that someone has taken the guidance and run with it. Excellent.

    Yes, the isolate works well and it's easy to use and dose. It will dissolve in oil or alcohol. Since it's usually 99.9% CBD, you just use a scale to determine how much to use. 0.1g is 100mg and so forth. It's really good if you want to make a THC:CBD blend like a 1:1 or 5:1 or a 1:5 or whatever. It just mixes in after you've done your solvent transfer to the oil, with a little heat.

    Sounds like your dog has a new lease on life, too. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:
     
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  18. #1378 MarcusW, Nov 30, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
    Hello P'Sam!

    I'm very new to this industry (?) of making edibles/tinctures. I started by doing my internet research, making cannabutter via double boiler, evolved to a MBM + Nova decarb machine, and ultimately found my way to your threads here.

    First of all let me say, you are a God send. Have no doubts about that. Thank you for your selfless contributions here.

    I'm not chronically ill. As a matter-of-fact, my interest has started for purely recreational pursuits. But as I've learned about the health benefits, and with a chronically ill sister (and some friends)... I've become more interested in the medical side. But at this point, its a future ambition and not the initial intent.

    With that said, I've come a long way. I'm now able to produce an impressive tincture with better, and more predictable results.

    On to my question:

    I've developed quite a sophisticated "calculator" for cost/dose. There are two areas to which I've yet to find reliable data. I'm hoping you can help.

    #1. Loss
    Q: What do you find (calculate) as your loss of THCmg content per your process?

    I read that the loss from smoking/combustion is close to 50%. I'm confident solvent transfer is more efficient, but I've seen you mention "loss", but not an approximate value. I'm using 11% as my value right now.

    So if I have 7g of material @ 13%, total available THCmg=910 THCmg
    I (somewhat) arbitrarily decided that the loss due to:
    decarb inefficiencies (although I believe the Nova is awesome)
    solvent absorbtion. (I use 3oz of 190everclear x2 rinses per 7g of material)
    heat inconsistencies (I use an oil bath to reduce, set to 180 degrees, temp fluctuates up to +20 degrees)
    plant absorbtion
    filter absorbtion

    all combined, I thought maybe 11% should cover it.

    But I don't know. And I'm not ready for any lab testing. I do know you've posted some lab results, but I haven't had much luck deciphering (or even viewing) most of it. I'm hoping you can give me a quick summary.

    #2. Maximum concentration

    Whats the most you can squeeze into 15ml of 190proof everclear?

    Thanks again for all that you do here. And if you're ever interested in seeing the results of my work, I'd be happy to share. (but it is spreadsheet on my Macbook, I could investigate converting to different format if you're interested).
     
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  19. #1379 PsychedelicSam, Nov 30, 2018
    Greetings, MarcusW. Well, I'd say that you've made a lot of progress on your own and that's great. You're the one deserving of the kudos. I've just provided the basic principles and concepts but you ran with it. I love to see that someone has an interest in learning.

    Unfortunately, loss is something that comes with the territory. I have been able to determine from my lab testing that your yield with this process is about 75-80% and that's also common for other forms of concentrate. It's really difficult to get better results due to absorption by the material. It would take a prohibitive amount of alcohol to rinse much more than that. More efficient ways to reclaim the alcohol won't help because you're still leaving the cannabinoids behind in the spent material. You'd have to continually rinse to dilute it more and more until nothing relevant was left. That is a waste of alcohol but if you have a good reclaim system it might be possible. Nothing is absolute.

    Other losses come from the filter absorption and one way to reduce that is to premoisten the filter with fresh alcohol before pouring the GD through it. That prevents the filter from soaking up your tincture. Straining efficiency is another aspect of it along with any spillage. All those little things can add up.

    I really haven't found a limit to what I can squeeze into 15ml. I have seen an ounce on several occasions. You can actually see that for your self if you were making RSO because that is simple GD evaporated down to the cannabis oil. If you do a batch of 4oz of flower for RSO and you've reduced it down to 15ml then it is still going to be a fairly thin liquid even if cool. However, just a few ml less and it will thicken up, especially once it's cooled.

    I can give you a way to get a general idea of what you have using your example. I've learned this due to simple coincidence and my ability to recognize the parallels after scores of tests. Here's that great wisdom. If you process your GD per my guide with 2 runs using the freezer and then reduce your results to a ratio of 4g/oz, your mg/ml will be approximately the same number as the percentage of the dry material. In a 20% bud that would be 20mg/ml, not 200. You have 13% material and you will have about 13mg/ml of GD at 4g/oz. 7g reduced to 4g/oz will give you 1.75oz of tincture with a strength of 390mg/oz = 680mg out of your total available of 910mg. If you calculate that out you'll find that 680 is 74.73% of 910. I'd say that's pretty close.

    I hope you were able to follow that. Peoples' eyes have glazed over when I've tried to explain it. It's purely coincidental that I noticed that pattern at that specific ratio. Here's another little study I've done that might be of interest. It's the yield from each run and the total from material similar to your example, 13-16%.

    Lab Results of 1st, 2nd Runs & Finished Tincture Comparison and Chart Post 8077
     
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  20. #1380 MarcusW, Dec 1, 2018
    I can give you a way to get a general idea of what you have using your example. I've learned this due to simple coincidence and my ability to recognize the parallels after scores of tests. Here's that great wisdom. If you process your GD per my guide with 2 runs using the freezer and then reduce your results to a ratio of 4g/oz, your mg/ml will be approximately the same number as the percentage of the dry material. In a 20% bud that would be 20mg/ml, not 200. You have 13% material and you will have
    about 13mg/ml of GD at 4g/oz. 7g reduced to 4g/oz will give you 1.75oz of tincture with a strength of 390mg/oz = 680mg out of your total available of 910mg. If you calculate that out you'll find that 680 is 74.73% of 910. I'd say that's pretty close.

    I hope you were able to follow that. Peoples' eyes have glazed over when I've tried to explain it. It's purely coincidental that I noticed that pattern at that specific ratio. Here's another little study I've done that might be of interest. It's the yield from each run and the total from material similar to your example, 13-16%.

    Lab Results of 1st, 2nd Runs & Finished Tincture Comparison and Chart Post 8077[/QUOTE]
    Awesome, with a simple tweak I'm able to compute the same numbers. Sounds like my numbers are the same as yours by increasing the Loss to 25-30%.

    Not as high of a yield as I originally thought, but still better than combustion (in more ways than one).

    Thanks again. I appreciate your quick response and details.

    Anyone set up a GOFUNDME page for you yet???
     
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