Does the Person Exist or Not? Non-Duality. Myth of ego vs The Self..

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by svedka, May 5, 2018.

  1. #21 observeimpartially, May 11, 2018
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
    Passion is meant to run freely because it is being expressed in the present. My age is of no importance, I barely keep track of it anymore. Time is really of no importance unless I am trying to catch a bus. What matters is how we treat each other. We are a violent world, we are destroying each other over religion, politics, and nationalities. We must bring about a revolution first inwardly but then outwardly. Taking care of your oneness if you will is only part of it. Selfish. We need to get rid of the I, me, mine. It's easier said...Oh and I don't say that to be mean or disrespectful. It is fact that we tend to think of our own little worlds and how we can improve ourselves which is selfish. I have to face this fact, that I am selfish.

    Checked my age, I am 48.
     
  2. Yes, Tolle is legit and as far as being accused of "pointing" to "old knowledge"... Many a sage will agree, even the questionable TM guru MMY said "there is nothing new under the sun" and went on to refer to the Vedas thousands of years ago...

    I bought a CD set of Tolle's many years ago but it wasn't until maybe 2011 or 12 that i read the book "Power of Now"... the words lifted off the page in a profound spiritual way and stuck much more than listening to him on any recording... perhaps because of my mind drifting, but i get that same mystical experience when i read Truth which is what i got from the book... That book was masterful, explaining the human condition / psychology beyond a shadow of doubt...

    The "pain body" took awhile to soak in but finally got that too and can relate to it personally as observations of others... Many criticize him for charging for talks or seminars but that is how he reaches more ppl imo... most ppl think that "freebies" are valueless but if they pay for something they are more apt to sit still and take note as well as follow up in practice.

    The money goes into his foundation anyway and what's he going to do with it? Anyone can tell he is a man of simple pleasures and tastes... Hopefully the foundation will carry on the "pointing" somehow...
     
  3. Not a problem, their are no shoulds and according to some teachings "we" are not the "do-er"... that rascal false ID lives in a world of "neglect, blame, shame, guilt, etc." ... it's true that the more we can be the Witness and reduce the amount and frequency of the "thinking mind" thoughts we are less prone to identify with the false egoic self... "Working mind" thoughts are not a problem however as they are not charged with "up to date history", concepts, experiences that cloud over the clarity of Being here Now.
     
  4. "Individual" means un-divisible, basically the essence of who or what we really are cannot be quantified or broken down or even analogized. So when you ask "who is the doer" I would have to say 'me'. Who or what exactly 'I am' is another question.

     
  5. #26 svedka, May 12, 2018
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
    Found this ancient poor quality video interview of Ramesh Balsekar who was a translator for Nisargadatta Maharaj who is rated up there with Ramana Maharishi in the realm of Advaita and Non-Duality teachings.
    It has subtitles in Spanish but also you can click on CC which is not 100% accurate at least 20% or more words did not print correctly... having said that, it helps due to poor quality sound... this was way before digital equipment...

    Ramesh is also the guru of Roger Castillo... Also there were reports that Ramesh had seduced some of his female disciples but the accusations were not made until he was well into his upper 80s... and of course with this teaching there is "No Do-er" so it was part of the flow of life and evolution... lol

    He does make a very convincing point, if one can set aside that sense of ego separateness and fear of losing ongoing identity... the problem is that most of us are clinging to this sense of self and fear the letting go to merge into the whole... he explains there is still a sense of identity used only to communicate in the world with others but no actual attachment to it...

    Before watching this you may want to read the edit to post 1 of this thread. Ramesh is highly controversial to say the least, even for a "guru" or spiritual teacher... He, like L. Ron Hubbard of Scientology, may have dreamed up a process to fit their own dreamed up reality for all we know.

     
  6. This is a "silent' video with quotes that remain on the screen for 45 seconds.... It may be all one needs to awaken from the conceptual self we call the collections of thoughts, judgements, experiences, memories, etc.
    It feels great to "just Be" rather than running around trying to be a "human doing", "human acquiring" or "human becoming"..

    Yet as good as it feels, Witnessing this state leads to freedom from the finite thought up conceptual self... i, me, mine which creates all of the suffering...
    -------------------------------

    "A silent contemplation/meditation video of the 57 key "I AM" quotes from the Maharaj's teaching. These 57 quotes are from Pradeep Apte's excellent publication: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj - The Core of His Teaching. Each slide is on screen for 45 seconds and can, of course, be paused if you wish."

     
  7. Well when you have a thought.. you do exist.. cogito ergo sum..

    Means we live and die through our thoughts..

    But the supreme experience can be made small or big.. to the knot of time..which is about motion, which is about change.. The soul wants a soul mate.. it gets lonely being Adam Kadmon living in an egg all alone..
     
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  8. the awakened or realized ones all agree that NO THOUGHT state is nirvana and thoughts create problems, pain, suffering albeit after the fun fantasy juicy anticipation and pleasure ends.. nothing, no thing lasts which creates the let down and obsession for the next kick from the next person, place or thing...

    the thoughtless state is so in harmony with universal creative intelligence that all needs are met without having to plan and scheme using the egoic intellect to get them... it all sounds nice imo but i'm a long long way from there... having said that i've had some days where everything clicked... made every green light down and back across town, hot young babes that wouldn't give me a 2nd look coming on to me, etc. those days are nice and came after i had been doing some applied processes for dropping the counterfeit conceptual egoic self for the SELF... it made me a believer in letting go the thoughts and finding that groove floating in the flow and things coming your way without effort...

    takes a huge amount of effort to be a person, ask tRUMP or anyone who is identified with a false egoic self... takes absolutely NO energy to just BE.... as the Zen folks say, we are training to be nobody special for starts, then to be nobody at all... lol
     
  9. Im not saying thoughtless state is not pure nirvana..

    But I am saying that thoughts take you and define you.. as long as you have them, that is..

    Also saying that thoughts and your identification with them is a type of creation..
     
  10. Nobody at all really gets me.. the no mind can allow zero blockages to what you want.. and become..
     
  11. OK, but... there are 2 basic categories of thoughts... and our "way of thinking" is a product of conditioning or concepts, most of which are not unique to us but from environmental influences... some call it programming like a computer...

    So... WHO is the "thinker" of most of these thoughts that fleet through the average person's mind? i would say most people are addicted to out of control thinking and can't stand the thought of a perfectly quiet mind... to have no thoughts scares the hell out of most people if they were to sit in a room for an hour and not think they would feel they had lost their mind and indeed they had... likely the best thing that has ever happened to them.. lol

    Thought has been highly overrated according to the few who have awakened from the false ID (concepts and the i, me, mine egoic self).

    WORKING THOUGHTS - Are OK when we need to think, in order to analyze and plan in order to repair or build things, solve puzzles or whatever.

    PSYCHOLOGICAL THOUGHTS - Are the culprits, these dramas spinning in the minds of most people regarding who they "think" they are and who they "think" others are, etc... it's all past / future stuff, most of which is totally unnecessary and takes away from experiencing the present moment.

    Of course nobody caught up in the incessant thought stream realizes how much energy it consumes and takes away from getting things done NOW that need doing. and they wouldn't know what to do with that false self if they didn't have this "story of me" spinning all the time. lol
     
  12. So suffering happens because of the attachment to thoughs?

    That would indeed be true if those are negative thoughts..

    But as far as Buddhism goes I think your are distancing your self from positive experience and the notion that some thoughts are indeed good and positive.

    In case of emergency how can I get rid of negative thoughts?
     
  13. Yes, thoughts capture & confine consciousness or sense of self (small s) which was the 1st thought or sense of "i am"... some say it began in the womb but others say around age 2 and why the "terrible 2's" happen when kids realize they are separate individuals and start getting selfish, bratty, jealous, angry, etc...

    Even wonderful thoughts about the love of ones life are confining after a time although expansive in the beginning... it's only the self experiencing the Self but a certain person can be the catalyst as you cannot give love away... the more you feel and express, the more you feel and have to share... pain is a blockage of energy (full stop that's it)... so, if for whatever reason you no longer express the love or appreciation for a person then suffering begins... equal amount of suffering for the pleasure you had some say, but all from thoughts including memory and revisiting the "good times" and the ending... all the stuff "shrinks" make a living or fortune off of... mind games...

    Getting rid of negative thoughts "in case of emergency"? Best way is to become the Witness of the thoughts and ask who these thoughts are meant for.. answer me, then who am I? rinse and repeat... i find this difficult and boring but many claim it is the fastest way... so once you know you are not your thoughts and they may come at random like clouds across a clear sky then you can with breathing calm the mind and feel the eternal Self and get centered and calm in the emergency... fear of death is lost at some point in this practice...

    i use a 3 breath process with mantras..

    SO HUM - Breath in So and exhale Hum
    HAM SA - Inhale on Ham & Exhale on Sa
    You can do this 3 times on each or 3 reps, even 5 if you are really scattered but after awhile a single inhale and exhale with any mantra you trust will do wonders... then simply get a sense of how it must have been the 1st time you had a "sense" of I AM with no accumulation of concepts and emotional, intellectual baggage.... rest in the Self... nothing could be easier or more natural... of course thoughts will come so you go back to the breathing and repeat the process... can be done in activity as well as former sitting, even a 2 minute restroom break at work or home...

    Also there is the "neti neti" (not this, not this) process or method, just observe and witness ask your self is this me and then realize no it's not, because you are the witness, the Awareness or Observer... all else are objects that come and go... not eternal...

    i was hoping that you had investigated Advaita from India but more or less is similar to a point with Buddhism... i've not spent as much time on the latter but recently studying and practicing "non-duality"... it too seems to hit a brick wall or gap sort of like dropping off the face of the "i" existence... in fact, some of the teachers say that reincarnation is part of the illusion and that only similar energies return to work off vasanas (habits, tendencies)...

    That video in #27 above is good to watch in silence even while puttering around if you take a minute to digest it... each screen or slide is 45 seconds... no music, nada... just silence where all knowledge if found and taught.

    Here is a free pdf to read or download, only 8 pages and from the most respected sage Ramana Maharshi (not the TM yogi, way before him)

    https://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/who_am_I.pdf
     
  14. Have been enjoying some Jim Newman videos past few days... It takes a lot of effort to be a "person" but no effort to just "BE"... The premise is that none of us are who we think we are and nobody we know or see is either (what we think they are and likely what they think of themselves... ) It's like a dream, always changing based on instilled concepts... This is not another one of those "who am I" riddles but simply a shift in how we identify ourselves and others. It is the end of attachment as well as psychological and emotional pain while being and feeling more alive and connected than ever before.

     

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