Do you know what socialism is?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Gandhi'sWarrior, May 22, 2010.

  1. #1 Gandhi'sWarrior, May 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2010
    Please educated me. I encounter people all the time that spit out the word socialism(as if it is a bad thing) referring to it so loosely, yet when one questions them about it, they couldn't tell you the first tenet.

    For starters, if anyone thinks universal healthcare represents socialism, or if obama is a socialist, they need to take a seriously, educated, analytical look at the definition of socialism.

    So for those that love to use the term, please tell me what you think socialism is?

    Edit: For the record, I know what socialism is
  2. Socialism is when more than 50 percent of the population of a certain country works in some form of Government owned industry.
  3. doesnt socialisms have something to do with facebook
  4. #4 SmokinP, May 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2010
  5. #5 aaronman, May 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2010
    Socialism is an economic system of central planning.

    If somebody feels that men, and not markets, should set interest rates, create money, set prices, set wages, etc, then they are socialist.

    Socialism is a political system of worker control, ie the result of Democracy.

    The majority controls everything, and subsequently destroys everything. At least, that's what history shows us.

    Universal health care is socialism, not sure how you can argue against that.

    Obama is a socialist in that he doesn't believe market forces are good enough, but he's technically a fascist because he takes the money of the workers and gives it to special interests.
  6. Yea, it sounds good on paper, don't it?

    But when you have morons fighting market forces such as scarcity you're bound to run into problems.
  7. The Free Market tanked my Roth IRA when the market took a crap.

    My socialist government retirement fund made money.
  8. You don't think the centralized bank, a socialist feature of our government, had any effect on the free market?

    I see this argument all the time "The free market is fucking up" but it's almost always because of an effect caused by government intervention in the market.

  9. First, who controls where the money in your Roth IRA is invested?

    Second, where does the "socialist government" get the money to pay for your retirement fund? It's pretty hard to lose money when you're stealing.
  10. Some of you got it right. Socialism is where industry is owned, entirely, by a centralized government. There is no half and half. People point to Sweden as kind of a quasi-socialist government, however private enterprise still exists, so therefore Sweden is more of a social democracy, with Keynesian influences. Socialism and Capitalism really don't vary all that much. Smith and Marx would have gotten along quite well on somethings. For example both believe in competition, technological development, economic growth, expanding markets etc. The difference is in a socialist government collective ownership resides in a centralized government so in theory enterprise is in the hands of the people. Contrarily in capitalism enterprise is in the hands of the individual. Communism is a completely different story in the sense that there is no centralized government, and collective activity resonates on all bureaucratic levels.

    Ultimately for Marx, he saw Capitalism as inevitable. He suggested that all societies would go through the capitalist mode of production. Though, through an uprising by the proletariat (the workers) the next mode of production would take place i.e. communism.

    Today's capitalism, is not Smith's capitalism, it has lost much of its classical economic tenets. Today's capitalism is what would be called neoliberalism, and it contradicts many of the principles of classical economics. Those who think government isn't involved in supposed "free markets" are fooling themselves. Government is needed to enforce deregulation, to enforce lassiez faire economics, to enforce lax regulations. The bretton woods institutions, which are arguably an extension of capitalist governments on a global scale, have enforced the exploitation of billions of people all for the sake of profit.

    Nevertheless, excuse my tangent, I'm merely trying to state socialism in no way represents any of President Obama's current policies. He has played ball with corporate interests, he has supported globalization and free trade through numerous examples. He has brought in the corporate puppets such as Timothy Geithner, and Lawrence Summers--a man personally responsible for accumulation by disposition--that is commidifying debt.

    Obama has promoted some Keynesian tenets on a domestic level. He has promoted universal healthcare as well as government investment through import-substitution industry to ensure "the economy" doesn't collapse. Keynesian is system to ensure the existence of capitalism not the other way around.

    Just thought i try to clear things up
  11. Socialism is a flawed philosophy, as are communism and every other form of Marxism. They have been compared, through the experiment of time, with every other form of government throughout the past 250 years. There has been an experiment going on, through the most efficient means, and the end result was that the United States has the indisputable title as the world's superpower, through the spirit of capitalism, through the spirit of independent spirit, and most importantly because of these strengths it has enabled us to maintain ultimate supremacy in miiltary affairs.

  12. No..
    The US has become the superpower it is by acting like a bully in a school yard..
    Raping and pillaging smaller countries of their assets is how the US became the monster it is...

    The US also holds the title for being the most despised and hated country in the world..;)

  13. exactly
  14. Hilarious....

    Ive never understood americas love of its self. It has always seemed to me to be a country with its fingers firmly in its ears.

    Here in the sunny UK, I have heard of many people relate the country, much like Smokinp said, as a teenage country. Both in history and its actions.

    The sadest point - is that americans still havent realised how the world see's them.

    Granted, you've had an industrial / technological boom (in the form of the internet) which has greatly benefited the entire world. But anyone looking into your healthcare system would happily swap all the emails in the world if only you wouldnt leave your sick and dying on the sidewalk. sad but true.

    to bring this back to the thread... I strongly believe that all systems have flaws. Capitalism has no 'cap' so greed creeps in to rape resources. Socialism has been proved to fail many times through human error, as has communism on a large scale.

    Why cant we use a little bit of everything - when its suited best?

    Wouldnt capitalism (with a cap) for business, Socialism for health care and communism for food production make sense? Then everyone is free to eat, be healthy and be rich if they can be arsed...

  15. Socialism was never given a chance. Any country that has ever supported a sociaist model has either been isolated from the world economy or attacked through military occupation. The fact that the US is the world's superpower because of an independent desire for freedom... is a myth that surely should die

    The US has risen as the world's leading hegemony because of WWII. WWII ravaged Europe and left the US relatively untouched, with a chance to grow while its European counterparts were trying to fight off fascism in their backyard.

    Going back further, European imperialism and colonialism made sure that the rest of the world was dependent on the West for its own development. Basically, European and US development came at the expense of the global south's underdevelopment. Dispute what they teach our kids in primary school, capitalism is responsible for the existence of the Third World.

    See dependency theory or post-colonial theory if you want to get a better understanding of Western manipulation of the world economy
  16. yeah except the US became the single superpower after WWII, which has nothing to do with your dumb theory on us exploiting smaller countries

    edit: this post was directed at smokinp
  17. #17 Gandhi'sWarrior, May 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2010
    Well said brother. I agree with you mostly, however I'm still slightly skeptical about socialism, yet I perfer it over the gross system of capitalism. However we must acknowledge that there are other approaches that have niether capitalist or socialist leanings.

    To the bold, I'm an American and I'm not blind to the preception the world has of us :D.

    However i concur that there is a large portion of Americans that are sick with the disease of American Exceptionalism, the illness of the so-called Ugly American. I'm truly ashamed of the ignorance that most in this country possess, the myth they hold true that America is the beacon of prosperity and "freedom" <--- a word that has been so overly used its meaning has become innocuous. Yet these Americans remain unaware through institutional brainwashing, hegemonic practices of silence through mass consumption, the devastation our country has committed over the past century.

    That is, we as Americans, do not question, do not speak up, do not look to alternatives, as long as we get our stupid fucking Ipads and Hummers, As long as we get our meaningless trinkets (which have been made by a poor Thai women who spends hours on end in a Free Trade Zone, sweating and dying to make meaningless consumer items for an overindulgent population of sheeple) we are happy.
  18. It's clear you don't understand basic economics.

    Anyways, Socialism in it's purest form is when Government owns the means of production in an attempt to internalize externalities using central planning.

    I'm sure this thread is a response to the Conservatives/Tea Partiers who say Obama is a 'socialist', and to which I say, Marx himself said that Socialism was the stage that came after Capitalism, in an attempt to set the stage for Communism.

    Some food for thought.
  19. Thanks Gandhi'sWarrior - You've just (honest to god here) made my week!!! An america who has obviously looked into many different sources - and formed his own opinion. Thats all i ever want from anyone.

    Repeated govenment slogans regarding anything except how your country is run as being 'the devils work' drive me nuts.

    I love your point on freedom. Saying your free doesnt make it so. You can hang a gold chain round a slave and he is still a slave. Just a slightly happier one.
  20. Sorry to keep on here - I love the thread...

    Marx himself said? Well adolf himself said...

    OK, so thats a good point badly made...:

    No one is right, the second we all agree we are complacent and nothing will be pushed forward. wether one person has come up with a theory or not is pointless... The second you believe in one mans words is the second you become part of a cult.

    You dont just eat potatoes all the time... sometimes its nice to have some rice ;-)

    capitalism drives, socailism cares, communism gives unity...

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