Do we truly have the ability to make choices for ourself....

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by perfectstranger, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. i have been struggling with the idea of free will. lets say i put two phones (an iPhone 5 & a Galaxy S3) and i piece of paper with something written on the side facing down in front of you and asked you to choose between the two. You pick one then i turn the card over with the name of the phone you picked. we repeat this process but the outcome doesn't change, meaning that the card always has the name of the item you chose. would this mean that you have no free will? if i know what you are gonna pick i could just give you the item and erase the illusion  of choice.
    if there is a creator then we are his intricate programs. for any one like me who is fascinated with and or is a computer programmer knows every mechanism of a computer has to be programmed which is why its so difficult to create a conscious mind that is capable of making choices. this programs do exactly what they are programmed to do. from this view living as a program of god or the creator one cannot say we have a free will.
    what i am trying to say is that what you and i are gonna do tomorrow cannot be changed. it is gonna happen and the choices we think we make are just an illusion.
    i honestly want to be wrong about this so if you have any facts or observation that contradict my conclusion please state them. thanks in advance     

  2. #2 Boats And Hoes, Feb 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2014
    You may not be able to transmute your nature, but, like a rough stone, 'you' can carve and chisel it (as the religious say, 'turning a sinner into a saint'). Nietzsche may not have acknowledged 'free will', yet his super-men were liberated enough to recognize the urgency of mastering one's Self - with due diligence too. ;)
    Paths are given, we choose which to follow and go down, or which to shun and ignore (no matter if we are inclined one way or the other; inclination is not something fatal). Or, even better, we can choose, for, before we have the freedom of choice, we must have the possibility of having a choice, i.e., freedom presupposes freedom.
    ... just because I cannot totally control every aspect of my being (how egotistical of one to suggest that we should have this capacity), that means I have no freedom or freedom of choice regarding my decision's (and belief's) pertaining to reality... RIGHT ON! Thou shall do what I like! For, I don't have the freedom to act otherwise! Inotherwords, those who support determinism fail.
    'Man' is a relation between finitude and infinitude, freedom and limitation, possibility and necessity; a relation that relates itself to itself. So, if 'you' have a possibility, then 'you' have freedom (within the context of man as a relation).
  3. And, better yet, I wouldn't say that we have free 'will', but, a 'freedom of disposition' - you could say.
  4. #4 perfectstranger, Feb 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2014
    @[member="Boats And Hoes"] the beginning of our lives was not our choice. our parents had sex but they did not chose which sperm gets to unite with the egg an create a new life and we did not chose our parents. if the begin of our life is not our choice why should the rest of it be.
  5. #5 Boats And Hoes, Feb 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2014
    That's terrible way to look at it. And, yet, you choose to look at it as such...
    agree with boats and hoes. thing is you do have a conscious mind, you have a belief system, thought processes, emotions, perceptions etc.. and you can train all those things whichever way you want.  i used to look at life like this, but its just depressing really. it makes you feel powerless and like theres not much point in living.. so pointless
  7. #7 Boats And Hoes, Feb 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2014
    Kierkegaard called it - the sickness unto death (that is, to be alive in an immutable grave, or rather, to think that you're alive in an immutable grave).
  8. #8 perfectstranger, Feb 8, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2014
    @[member="tokeallday"] @[member="Boats And Hoes"] i know its depressing if you don't  believe in reincarnation (which i do) i believe that even though we do not have any control of our life's we get to experience multiple life's, or multiple outcomes. or something like that. so there is no need to be depressed or sad about it.
    in a sense this is a movie all we can do is enjoy it.
    from the first day we take our first breath we are no longer our selves. i have come to the conclusion that our true self is both good and bad, sad and happy, yin and yen, and unbiased. this self, our true self watches this movie that is being played for us unable to alter it hence we have no control of our lives.   
    even the choices we make are derived from what we see. for example if we witness a every person we come across expressing distaste towards an entity we too grow to detest said entity. for we know no other emotion to express.
    what i am trying to say is that choices are basted on all the information we gather.
    why do u chose to get a job? i do because all the information i have collect hints that no equals a terrible life . and so forth.
  9. #9 Boats And Hoes, Feb 8, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2014
    At least you're free enough to convince your-self that you're in a "movie". But, it's funny, you know, you've exhausted a great deal of possibilites (within the mind) to come to discover impossibility. Strange.
  10. I had to choose a movie the other day. I'm horrible at making decisions especially when I have a lot of good ones. It takes me forever. Unless I'm a laggy "program" these programmers made. I'm gonna continue to think I make my own choices. I am though, hypocritically a believer in fate. I don't know. I have to choose between the two. Or I could believe in both. I'll be back. I have to go make some choices :'(

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Grasscity Forum mobile app
    'I will act as if what I do makes a difference." -- William James
  12. What difference does it make whether or not it's free if you do what you will?
  13. I get what you mean, if we had free choice then there would be no future, because in future all possible outcomes are already made and chosen, and you MUST end up in one of those infinite instances.... maybe that's why there's such peace in learning to live in the present, the stream of infinite time.......
  14. #14 perfectstranger, Feb 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2014
    yeah most of the exuberant moments in my life have been when i was attempting to live in the now. living completely in the now is a hard to do.
    any one got any advice on how to completely live in the now? i would appreciate it if you would share your wisdom. 
    on another note i would like to persuade anyone reading this to look at the positive side. everything bad or good in your life was going to happen or was meant to happen. so enjoy the good moments and look past the bad ones for its all a movie.
  15. It's important to define "Freedom of choice" first.
    Freedom of choice describes an individual's opportunity and autonomy to perform an action selected from at least two available options, unconstrained by external parties.
    Education, culture, philosophy, religion, social interactions and previous life experiences, all those elements have a tremenduous impact on our so-called "personalities". Are you really able to put everything aside in order to make a "free" choice?
    Can you imagine something in this world that is not acted upon by external forces?
  16. what ever exists after we get rid of the ego would not be affected by an external forces or at least i think it wont.
  17. no our choices are forever altered by hollywood
  18. [SIZE=12pt]What you are describing here would result in the choice of "non-action".[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]If the voice inside "your" head is definitely silent and if you were totally disidentified from your thoughts and cravings, would you still make any choice at all. Or would you reflect your infinite possibilities?[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know~Lao Tzu[/SIZE]
  19. 100% agree with you 
    @[member="Selah Grey"] you got a point there. without the ego i guess there i would not make choices. my image of me without my ego is a man with a huge grin of his face sitting and watching the flow of time.
  20. #20 Boats And Hoes, Feb 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2014
    Do you really consider the ideas of honesty, solidarity, justice, truth, and love to be external to us...? There have been, and there are, many men and women who CHOOSE to abide, and die, by these ideas, passions, and dispositions.
    You choose to see that there is no choice apart from externality... because you can't help, or so I assume (based off of your post) that you can't help, but succumb to the urge and desire to entertain yourself with what's over there, apart from you, and not with what's right here within you.

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