Its called an analogy, healthy growth starts from where plants gather their nutrients. I'm sorry if you couldn't grasp that. Not saying its true, something I read and something to think about/consider.
From my experience I have seen better growth using 20/4 than 24/0. I don't know how much variation there is amongst strains using different light cycles but I popped my seed using 24/0 for 2 weeks then transitioned over to 20/4 and I saw noticable greater growth occur.
I was running 18/6 and now Im running 24/0. I like this better because Im running LED so electricity bill isn't that bad...and no worries about light leaking and timers....whatever. 24/0 is working great for me.
Awesome thread and even an appearance from rumplefuckingforeskin! I want to add my newbish 2 cents here. This is not meant to offend anyone or critique any particular person. The way I see it 24/0 is the way to go. If you leave the same plant in the same position under the same HID for 24/0 week after week there could be that downside that was mentioned. The issue of fucking up chloroplast comes to mind. Here is about the very best thread/series of articles I've read concerning how plants receive and use light, and also on the effect of specific wavelengths on flowering (opening the possibility of 24/0 flowering). The general conclusion from that thread (for me) is that MJ does not need "dark periods" but instead best performs in cycles of lessened and heightened light intensity over a 24 hour period. The most obvious way to acheive this while also maximizing wattage efficiency is simple light movers or at least rotating your plants manualy so they are not always receiving exactly the same amount of high intensity light. The basic reasoning behind this is that plants have receptors for photons (light energy) and that when a receptor fills up it switches off. The question is how long does a receptor take to 'dump' its store of photons into the biology of the plant and switch back on to receive more light. So for me it is 24/0 with light movers.
Im new here hello =D. In my 18 yrs exp doing this I have noticed a few things. Darkness makes no difference. In fact its proven that CO2 intake and sugar production are done during the light hrs to create sugars. These sugars are being used constantly by the plant thus the plant giving off O2 as a bi-product. Now in darkness the plant stays dormant however it does emit CO2 kinda like breathing. But there is no "growth or consumption" going on in darkness. The other thing I notice is most people who complain that they see little to no growth under a 24/0 is because the plant is not receiving enough C02. I actually used to think that 24/0 was slower but I realized VERY FAST the importance of a CO2 system... Since adding it to the room I have seen a signifigant increase in VEG... I have a theory that the CO2 that the plants givin off at night indoor in the room is qucikly absorbed during the first few hrs of light each day if the lights are at say a 20/4. This happening each night would have the appearance of growth, but only becasue of the weak amts of CO2 present and being consumed. Just a theory based on CO2 meter placed in the room and monitored for 14 days as an experiment. Another thing is that when I used to start from begin clone 24/0 with the clonex to beg of 12/12 used to take about 1.5 months. And I used to think the size was good for them. After adding the CO2 system...HTG Supply - CO2 Regulator And Tank Combo I cannot even begin to tell you the difference it has made in Veg and bud cycles. The veg stage is actually to my liking at 30days and I bud them. But in my opinion if you are seeing poor veg on a 24/0 cycle it is more likely that your closet / room is not enriched enough with CO2. I also read somewhere in the thread here someones idea about forced budding under a 24/0. I honestly think it has more to do with stress and the fact that a plant thinks its going to die so it starts to flower to reproduce. I think the stress is what triggers the budding weather it be light or other factors. Somehow stress causes the change and level in the hormones. I often ponder one other thing in this regard. We base it all on a 24 hr light cycle. What if ya base it on a 36 hr cycle. 36/7 (always on) then 18/18 to bud. Sorry for the long post got carried away.
Over my numerous years in the grow field, Ive used many different veg cycles and came to the conclusion that: 1) 24-0 (Upside) medium growth plants because of no down time, less stretching because lights are constantly on. (Downside) Poor root development!!!!!!!! IMO- Best for starting babies or keeping healthy mothers (with well established roots) producing!!! 2) 18-6 (Upside) Great growth, both root and leaf production. 18 hrs is a great day of light with a couple hrs of darkness to get a break and recoup for the following day. during dark cycle, plants will actually have time to pull up extra nutrients need'd for the following day and lowers stress levels! This keeps em jamming with minimal stressing. the less stress, the more growth!!!!! (Downside) Haven't really found any yet!!!!!!! IMO-Best For regular Vegging!!!!! 3) 16-8 (Upside) Bushy, bushy, bushy plants!!!!!! roots literally fall out the pot!!! (Downside) less leaf production, you gotta watch em everyday so they don't go into flower!!! IMO-My personal favorite for pre-flowering. So heres my method for vegging!!! I'm native American, and grow Indoor-Organic with as close to outdoor seasoning indoor as possible!!!!! 1st) 1st two weeks ,babies get 24-0 light 2nd) weeks 3-?? (I run for 12 weeks) ran off 18-6 for excellent root and leaf production. 3rd) Lastly and most important, when I'm happy with the size, i throw them onto a 16-8 light schedule till they start to flower. 4) Once flower cycle is started, i switch em to the flower room on 13-11 for 2 weeks. Then the last 6 weeks is at 12-12 with 2 days before harvest at 0-24. The whole point of my pre-flower cycle is to gradually manipulate them into flowering without losing my first two weeks of my cycle!!! I have greatly increased my yields by doing this.. Greatly!!!!!! take a second and think about what happens naturally outdoors. they grow untill the light cycle shortens and signals flowering!! this happens over a matter of a couple months with minimal growth loss, whether its leaf or rooting. By gradually adjusting the lights i've grown many sativas thick as indicas with very dense nuggs!! ive eliminated the slowgrowth-switching over to flower process (first 2 weeks-pistoling). i now get the whole 8 weeks of flowering, producing buds an alarming rate!!! ...RobbieReck... "Support Your Local Ganja Farmers"
I find it hard to believe, that with all of the choices of indica inclusive genetics, that anyone has a problem with stretching these days or plants that lack adequate vegetative growth in an 18/6 cycle. To the contrary, I find that most strains don't stretch enough, containing packed vegetation/root mass that is impenetrable by light and somewhat impervious to healthy ventilation or visual inspection, such as for pests, without substantial and perpetual pruning of overgrowth. Many advocates of 24/0, are also against adequate pruning, citing reasons seemingly against plant stresses, while at the same time, it is known with just about all forms of gardening, that excessive vegetative growth that does not work (collecting light for instance) for the plant, are considered as 'suckers' and removed accordingly. I have yet to see it proven that 24/0 really increases notable yields overall, other than perhaps making up for inadequate lighting. For every 3 days of 18/6, you add one more grow day to the life (this is debatable, with heating and cooling of equipment sometimes shortening life) of your bulbs/ballasts etc, which means your light intensity is (maybe) going to be more consistent for longer and this may make the difference when starting a subsequent grow under used lights and considerations for notions of one method (such as that with the 24 vs 18 debate) that start to become somewhat self cancelling over longer periods of time. Not saying one is more right over the other, just how things work for me personally. I am personally against forced and premature yields as they are these days and the seemingly overly sterile and watered down product that results from many of the modern grow practices, but then again, I don't have to make a living from it, for which I feel fortunate.
I think most people are against adequate pruning... Totally a noob gut reaction. You don't want to lose any bud sites. Usually, once someone keeps a mother for any decent amount of time and has taken several generations of clones that they see first hand the effects of pruning on new growth. If you pay attention to that, you can really turn pruning into an art form to create extra bud sites and shape the plant to increase yield. -Loki
I think you'd be able to get away with lengthening the light period as the plant buds. I have a theory that buds act as a phytochrome battery. After revegging a few flowering plants after accidentily losing a mother to replace her, I noticed the more buds the plants had, the slower the reveg. I think once you got to a certain bud mass, you could start increasing the light period proportionally to the bud mass. -Loki
Hahaha. these kids on here are kinda funny. Loki-joke, My parents own a well known dispensary in my town! I run a fully legitamite business and the medicine i grow cant stay on my shelf! Its not a debate. I come from a strong line of native american's and we've been doing it this way over 45 years bro. I'm not here to hate on anyone but to share information that has helped me in my years of grow!!!
And not just yield. Flavor and consistent THC content throughout the plant is another biggie. MJ, surely has to be the quickest lesson in bonsai. The only bud sites I care to lose is lower popcorn sucker sites. Any would-be, worthy popcorn sites above that should be able to be trained into 3-4" mini colas that almost catch up to the main colas height near the end of the grow without stretching the actual bud itself.
Tried it both ways, much better to not cut a thing from the plant (unless it's dead). My strain grows faster and yields higher with longer light cycle during veg (24/0) and letting all the leaves and branches do their job. I don't own a pot store but I have lots of pictures.
Tried it both ways as well repeatedly. I started out making shrubs and hedges out of pure sativas over 30 years ago.In the last 10 years or so, every basic indica/sativa cross has not had issue with lack of vegetation, or flowering branches/bud sites if everything else is correct with the grow. Even with 18/6 lighting, there is high incidence of overcrowding. If it wasn't the case, we wouldn't need scrog, super cropping or LST, plants that will overtake their environment if not forced to flower earlier than one might want to. Not saying 24/0 is wrong, just that "I" personally don't need it. I look for a specific stem/branch size and structure before I flower. In my situation, and for the type of buds I prefer, I like a slightly slower vegetative stage. It's also partly why I choose soil over hydro etc. I've seen every type of grow, from the most seemingly steroidal and scientific, to the most naturally occurring. My point is there is purposes for each type of light schedule in spite of the current trend of more is better. The internet forums are not short of photos of top notch grows using 18/6. I'd even go as far to say that a significant amount of leaf drop issues are merely the plant trying to get rid of excess and non-productive vegetation. I guess it is safe to assume by your claiming to "never cutting a thing from a plant unless it's dead", that you have never tried scaling down bud leaf size vs bud mass using 'creative' pruning?
Lots of my pictures taken years ago show different methods of leaf and branch trimming methods I tried out. My best results came from not trimming. Learn as I go. Now if I can find a quick method of trimming after harvest (tomarrow is trim party and no one is happy about it).
While I don't want to add to the ongoing discussion about length of flowering lighting, something I saw in these posts and made me realize that a lot of knowledgeable growers are still wrong when it comes to basic plant physiology. Please stop calling them light and dark cycles. It is incorrect. The proper way of calling them, is the light depending cycle (the light cycle) and the light INDEPENDENT cycle ( or else Calvin cycle). It is NOT the dark the cycle. It does not require darkness, it just doesn't requires light. Meaning that it can happen whenever it pleases. This fact alone should solved the main thread question, or at least point you in a correct direction