do europe understan america

\"The truth is that, except for a very few astute observers like Alexis de Tocqeville, Sir Winston Churchill, Lady Margaret Thatcher, and Alistair Cooke, in his marvelous \"Letters from America” series on BBC, European intellectuals have never understood the United States. Nor have they wanted to. They\"ve always had contempt for us. They have always mocked America\"s dynamism, openness, diversity, informality, social mobility, and appeal to the huddled masses of the world.\"

\"France, in particular, cannot abide the fact that it\"s no longer a great power. It therefore compensates by tweaking America whenever it can. France exaggerates the importance of its veto on the United Nations Security Council and fantasizes about earlier centuries of real and imagined Gallic glory.\"

\"Americans are not flocking to foreign consulates, begging for visas, or sneaking across borders and oceans, so that they can live happily in, say, North Korea, China, Pakistan, or the Congo. Rather, it is the other way around. When was the last time Europeans or anyone else saw Floridians rafting to Cuba to live under Fidel Castro, or Californians crossing deserts to work illegally in Mexico?\"

\"Are they so mired in their anti-Americanism that they will worry about the Jihadist threat to Western civilization only after a biological, chemical, or nuclear version of September 11 - not in New York or Washington, but in London, Paris, Stockholm, or Brussels?\"

\"Most Europeans, their pontificators and their polls tell us, think that America and Israel are the two most terrible polities on this planet. Not nuclear North Korea. Not near-nuclear Iran. Not the Sudan, which is practicing genocide. Not even Saudi Arabia, which besides exporting oil and terrorists peddles and bankrolls extreme Wahabbism around the world.\"



It is slanted, which is why i sent it in a pm and i didnt post it, but these are the points im interested in...

I only sent it because i truely feel you get a slanted view of our news, be it by accident or by choice, and this artical slants the news of your country. You probably feel the same way about it as i feel about moveon.org, micheal moore, and others.


\"Never mind that the United States saved Europe in two World Wars and that thousands of American soldiers lie buried in its graveyards. But saving Europe when it screws up is what the United States is supposed to do. And damning Americans for saving them is what Europeans are supposed to do, under the French principle that no good deed should go unpunished.\" - a shot a socialism........ a very accurate one at that.......

Lets not preach about tollerence, from a culture who looks down their nose at anything that chalanges or goes agaisnt what they believe.


I hope the world community is there, it is only fair after we have saved the world a few times ourselves........ Just like Britian is there for you now, carry the whole continent on its back, while the economy of France is in a slump, notice that 10% unemployment rate. We are, ill be it not very much right now, making an effort to move away from fossil fuels. But we all know, that will take alot of time. We are working towards cleaner forms of producing energy.

 

We all want happiness, we all have the same goals, we just have different ways to achieve it. I think people will be happy when they are free. Free to live thier lives with as little government interaction as possible.

I resent the fact the US HAS to be the superpower.
I resent the fact the US HAS to be the wolrd police.
I resent the fact in doing so we make enemies.
But i forgive these people, for their culture has bread them with this hate.

I think the French Government has a twisted meaning of happiness (hint: punishing the top half to support the bottom half and having a forign policy that also revolves around the all mighty dollar is not happiness, it is greed, the thing you hate us Americans for)

Happiness is different things to different people. If People in America are unhappy, they should leave. I just dont see that happening. I dont see boats off the coast of spain and france rounding up boats comming in from Florida.

If you truely wanted happiness, you would want happiness for the millions of Iraq citizens who are on a path to a happier life, a life without the opperession of Saddam Hussain. You would be happy for the citizens of Afganistan, who held elections in which women got to vote, when 3 years ago they were not allowed to leave their house. You would be happy for America who picked a leader, even if you dont agree with him, instead of blasting the majoirty that voted for him and calling them names.

I have seen many articals on here that are insults to my intelligence.



\"We believe that church and state should be separate, but that religion should remain at the center of life. We are a Judeo-Christian culture, which means we consider those ten things on a tablet to be commandments, not suggestions. We believe that individuals are more important than groups, that families are more important than governments, that children should be raised by their parents rather than by the State. We believe that rights must be balanced by responsibilities, that personal freedom is a privilege we must be careful not to abuse, and that the rule of law cannot be set aside when it becomes inconvenient. We believe in economic liberty, and in the right of purposeful and industrious entrepreneurs to run their businesses – and thus create jobs – with a minimum of government interference. We recognize that other people see things differently, and we are tolerant of their views. But we believe that our country is worth defending, and if anyone decides that killing us is an okay thing to do we will go after them with everything we\"ve got.
If these beliefs seem strange to you, they shouldn\"t. For these are precisely the beliefs that powered Western Europe – you -- from the Middle Ages into the Renaissance, on to the Enlightenment, and forward into the modern world. They are the beliefs that made Europe itself the glory of Western civilization and – not coincidentally – ignited the greatest outpouring of art, literature, music and scientific discovery the world has ever known including Michaelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Shakespeare, Bach, Issac Newton and Descartes
It is your abandonment of these beliefs that has created the gap between Europe and the United States. You have ceased to be a Judeo-Christian culture, and have become instead a secular culture. And a secular culture quickly goes from being \"un-religious” to anti-religious. Indeed, your hostility to the basic concepts of Judaism and Christianity has literally been written into your new European Union constitution, despite the Pope\"s heroic efforts to the contrary.
Your rate of marriage is at an all-time low, and the number of abortions in Europe is at an all-time high. Indeed, your birth rates are so far below replacement levels that in 30 years or so there will be 70 million fewer Europeans alive than are alive today. Europe is literally dying. And of the children you do manage to produce, all too few will be raised in stable, two-parent households.
Your economy is stagnant because your government regulators make it just about impossible for your entrepreneurs to succeed – except by fleeing to the United States, where we welcome them and celebrate their success.\"

Maybe this will help you understand a little better.

 

All I\'ll have to say right now ist that the author of this article doesn\'t understand europeans...He does belive we all think black and white...he does think the struggle for world power is still alive in France and Europe. And he completely disregards the fact that america is just as likely to use it\'s veto power as the european countriesd...

\"Never mind that the United States saved Europe in two World Wars and that thousands of American soldiers lie buried in its graveyards. But saving Europe when it screws up is what the United States is supposed to do. And damning Americans for saving them is what Europeans are supposed to do, under the French principle that no good deed should go unpunished.\"

I\'m kinda sick an tired of this \"argument\". Does this mean that since America helped defeat Germany (Germany fucked up, not Europe!) and thus saved the world, they can now do as they like, attack who they like, to \"save the world\", regardless what their allies think?

\"European intellectuals have never understood the United States. Nor have they wanted to. They\"ve always had contempt for us. They have always mocked America\"s dynamism, openness, diversity, informality, social mobility, and appeal to the huddled masses of the world.\"

Jealousy??? Is that supposed to be the primus motor for our resent of american foreign policys? No!!! We are not jealous of america. We are quite content with our political system, welfare system, etc. What leads to resent is US foreign policy. That\'s also what triggered a whole bunch of terrorists.

\"Did the Europeans like Americans and Israelis more when former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, at the behest of former President Bill Clinton, offered Palestine Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat some 95 percent of the Israeli-occupied territories, a portion of East Jerusalem for his capital, and the dismantling of most of the Jewish settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip? And were the Europeans at all upset when Arafat rejected Barak\'s offer and began the present intifada?\"

Yes, yes, yes and yes...again...our (maybe I should say MY) resentment goes against policies and politics, not the american people. In this sense, yes, I did like America under Clinton better. And Israel under Barak (way better than Netaniahu). And yes, I was quite disappointed in Arafat. And still am. His stubbornnes and unwillingness to transfer power to other palestinian officials could now throw palestine into a deep crisis of disorientation, split terrorist cells, etc.

\"The Europeans are also unwilling and unable to grasp the impact of the Holocaust - which took place on their turf, after all - upon the Israeli psyche and the Jewish soul.\"

Wtf? That was an isult against our intelligence. He didn\'t even elaborate or give proof.

\"If Europe really wants to help - and I am not sure that it does - let it spend its time and money persuading the Arabs and their coreligionists that a sovereign Palestine living in peace with its infidel neighbor is a far nobler Islamic goal than a vanquished Jewish state would ever be.\"

I do agree on that. But the USA should also tell their Israeli friends that occupaiton is wrong.

\"And, instead of demonizing America and delegitimizing Israel, if Europe really wants to help, let it join America and Israel in their effort to defeat the Jihadists and bring them and the rest of Islam peacefully and productively into the Twenty-first Century.\"

We want an end of Jihad, too. We want tolerance and peace. And freedom. What the author doesn\'t understand is that we want to use different means to achieve these goals. E.g. Germany, France and GB just NEGOTIATED with Iran to abolish their atomic programs and research. True enough the outcome of the US election might have had some influence on that but I\'m not sure if the USA would have taken the same steps...

 

Skinner, the author is bias. This is the same type of bias that you read about my country. That is why i sent it to him. Gri770n is tellimg me i need to read noam chomsky lol. You get these radicals view of america, and that is a radical view of europe. Welcome to my world.

 

Yeaa...in that way it was a good article...now I know a bit better how you feel...

I get the same shit on my home country Germany from time to time, too...

 

have humans ever understood? have we humans ever understood anything? have us humans ever understood that our definitions, generalisations, seperations have never helped us understand?





Us and them, us and them, us and them. we\'re fucking children. no, we\'re worse than that, we\'re babies... we havn\'t even left our cradle. grow the fuck up.

fyi, the cradle i speak of is earth. you could even argue we\'re still in the womb. how small are we? don\'t you all see? no, you can\'t see. \"me me me\". where the fuck is the \"we\"?

 

although i\'ve also heard this barked at me in a typically autonomon-under-fascism manner the \"you\'re jelous\", i\'d like to point something out here.....
i\'m not quite content with our political system, welfare system etc.
our political system has been undergoing similar corporate take overs for some time. Tony B Liar, turned the Labour party into a right wing party.... just like the torries. little seperates the two but bickering over managerial competence. this has lead to the UK continuing to sell out all its PUBLIC institutions and services to corporate sharks who\'s only responsability lies to his own profit margins, *cough* and the shareholders (but we all know his pink butt comes first). and so our welfare hasnt recieved any attention for improvement except for cosmetics. Our government has done nothing but swindle and lie to us from the very beggining. If only our government was protected by something as inteligent, egalitarian, democratic, and heck, even anarchistic as the constitution of the United States of America, and even better, the miriad of finely spoken words of wisdom to have come from the United States of America\'s founding fathers. Of what would be even better yet would be if the United States of America was protected in such a manner, if the reigns of power really were so restrained. Then maybe we wouldnt be in this mess now bickering over who\'s is worst. oh hey.... look, i\'m in the UK! oh... we\'re the ones who charged off into the sunset with you oil hungry cowboys.

see how inflamitory that was? it was wasnt it. but you can\'t really bash me for that can you. not after the things i\'ve said, not since i am just to blame as you, another armchair political analist, sharing our opinion with the world in relative comfort.

Thing is, we are not and never have been playing a game with two sides. if it really must be kept simple for people to understand, lets say its a game with 4 sides, and there may be temporary aliances and there may be spies from other sides right up to the VERY HIGHEST. nationalists just havnt got a clue what the game is about. their game was lost behind their backs, just as my game was.

oh, sorry, we\'ve got real things to worry about... like money.... LMMFAO.

\"fiscal conservative\"
\"its the ecconomy stupid\" stupid indeed we were,
\"Education education education\", lies lies lies.



hows about getting our prioroties right. if your for money, then u need humans to have money (no point there just being loads of money floating around if everyone is dead), for there to be humans around you need earth (or another suitable recepticle to keep your humans in), and for there to be a suitable recepticle you need to keep things finely tuned. for such fine tuning, you need.... aw fuck it... this wil never work with people fallen for the education system of a despot. ok, here goes, catch up party members, your new mantra, chants and thoughts are.....



Environment, Environment, Environment.

It\'s the Environment stupid!

and the term \"fiscal conservationalist\".

repeat these terms so much that first they become \"fact\" (this usualy only requires twice for you well conditioned deciples of advertising) and then later they will become \"truth\", then you\'ll be able to win any argument just by having the \"truth\" that you have \"the facts\".

sesame fuckin street for \"adult\" humans.
sesame fuckin street for baby sentient life.


reach for the starchild.

 

not only are we all so lazy that we welcome getting our opinions on something from someone else, we now also get other peoples opinions from other people too! no one has their own opinions anymore it seems. it would appear that all european sentiment has been explained for us by one guy, so now we can all have our own opinions and know the opinions of those whos opinions dont fit with our own, especially if they wave a different flag, speak a funny language, or ... no?

i have the facts, all europeans hate americans! i know this for fact because i asked all of them. they all said it. so hey, america! hate europeans! all of them! they all hate you! so hate them back! hate hate hate.


oh how easily duped we all are.


damn ya gri77on, why you post that? it got me really worked up. seperationist dominator crap.

 

\"If only our government was protected by something as inteligent, egalitarian, democratic, and heck, even anarchistic as the constitution of the United States of America, and even better, the miriad of finely spoken words of wisdom to have come from the United States of America\'s founding fathers. Of what would be even better yet would be if the United States of America was protected in such a manner, if the reigns of power really were so restrained. \"

Yup. Our founding fathers would be turning over in their graves if they knew some of the crap and some of the government regulations and such that are goin on today. Men like Thomas Jefferson were the first true Libertarians, and they founded this country in the same way.

Grim i got a few more goodies for ya.

\"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add \"within the limits of the law\" because law is often but the tyrant\'s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.\"

\"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.\"

\"May it [the Declaration of Independence] be to the world, what I believe it will be, (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all,) the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government. That form which we have substituted, restores the free right to the unbounded exercise of reason and freedom of opinion. All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of God. These are grounds of hope for others. For ourselves, let the annual return of this day [July 4th] forever refresh our recollections of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them....\"

These are some of the morals our country was founded on. Its a shame we can\'t get back to them.

 

I tell ya what Gri77on, I\'ll read your book, if you read one of mine. My choice for you would be \"The Road to Serfdom\" by Friedrich A. Hayek.

It seems to me, digit, that your problem lies in the government, not the corporations. It sounds like your government showed favortism to certain business\'s. Leaving no competitors, which would of course drive up prices. They are doing this in the U.S. to, of course. I have a thread on it, under they stole my car, in RUMJL\'s box.

The constitution was amazing, that\'s the only way I can describe it, and to see it bastardized makes your heart ache. Maybe we should start doing more urban terrorism, to educate the people, you know, blowing up pointless monuments, the governors mansion...since when does the governor need a damn mansion? and of course propaganda!!

But of course, where our difference lies, digit, is you believe that the corrupt bussiness\'s are the problem, while I know that it is in fact the corrupt government.

nice quotes gilligan.

 

Ignorance is bliss eh?

 

In that case you definitely shouldn\'t watch the evening news...or any news at all

Grim had a point...

 

I don\'t understand Gri77on...you started this political thread and are getting responses...and now you are saying you aren\'t interested in expanding your understanding of a topic that troubles you? Denying any knowledge is to deny enlightenment. Ignorance is not bliss, it is merely ignorance.