Are you sure roads would be all that? I wouldnt necessarily doubt it, but I don't know of any evidence for that. For me, regardless if it is better pragmatically or not, it is immoral and therefore wrong. Then again I am more willing than most to make concessions for the sake of morality. Here we have the mentality that the individual doesn't matter, it is the collective that matters; forsake the individual.
The reason the interstates were built has nothing to do with how the right of ways were obtained. I agree we should have hover cars in our garages but until we do we need highways and you're simply not going to get every landowner to agree to have a highway built across his property. Highways, utility lines and pipelines, trains, military installations, canals, and reservoirs are all built using eminent domain. The uses I disagree with are parks and recreation areas and private enterprise.
Well if someone doesn't want to sell their property, it should be up to them right? W If you disagree, where would you draw your arbitrary line and how would you justify it? What if the property has been in the family for 200 years, or the house has sentimental value beyond money, or someone has 20 acres of nut trees that they planted 30 years ago so they can harvest nuts? Just curious.
The case above of the Quabbin Reservoir in MA is a good example. The city of Boston was very well-established and growing by the day. The millions of people there and in surrounding towns and cities needed water. The decision was made to flood a large area and unfortunately this area included multiple towns. I’m sure nobody was happy that these towns needed to be flooded. This wasn’t any grand scheme to cheat these people out of their houses and properties. I’m sure that many of the properties had been in their families for a very long time. This is New England. This is what happens in civilizations as things are done for the greater good of all - The majority of the people. Not good - Not Bad - IT JUST IS. J
Im waiting for you to get this transportation invented... but please make sure that folks won’t be running into each other up in the air - and especially around heavily populated major cities. Keep me posted. Thanks. J
Of course there needs to be. I am not a heartless bastard. But would you say, that if there was a city with millions of people that needed water, with your mindset, that if there was one house in the way of making a reservoir that would take care of the water needs of those millions with fresh, clear water (Man - the Quabbin Reservoir is one of the cleanest most beautiful areas I’ve ever been to as it is highly protected by Conservation folks) - that the reservoir should not be built because of that one Home? J
If the city cannot provide the essentials for human life without violating human rights then that is the cities problem. Build two or ten smaller reservoirs. Let us talk about value. If that individual values his property so much that +1million people combined cannot offer value that is equal to or greater than the value that individual places on the property. Would it be justified murdering that person for the benefit of those millions? The question is, where do YOU draw the line, if you do not take a principled stand, you can justify anything for the sake of this arbitrary collective. Maybe that person moved 20miles away from civilization to mind his own business as you suggested elsewhere, and now civilization has expanded and is knocking at his door threatening to steal his property.
I understand what you're saying, we should be king in our castle and we pretend we are but there are conditions to property ownership. We can't put a dozen disabled cars in the front yard, we can't have a garage sale every weekend, and if they decide to build a highway thru our front room we must move. If we were kings we'd make the rules but at least we know the conditions of ownership before we buy. I'd draw my arbitrary line at using eminent domain to take your property and give it to another person or to create a park.
First off, nobody is stealing a damn thing - “fair market value” - right? Nobody is friggin murdering anyone either dude. Shit happens in the way of progress and that’s all there is to it. It has always happened in every country since the dawn of Time and forever will continue to. Do you think that the very same thing won’t happen in Brazil? England? Russia? Iraq? I suppose you can: A. Live amongst society and civilization and expect things like this to happen because - IT DOES. Or: B. Move far enough away from Society & Civilization so that you simply don’t need to worry about it anymore. Although I suppose there’s always C.? C. Sit on your computer and voice your opinion on GrassCity where it will do you Zero good... Murder and theft - what is this country coming to? J
We are kings of our castle, that is one of the key concepts of this experiment. Sadly people have been indoctrinated and no longer realize it. You can have a dozen cars in your front lawn or have garage sales, they only reason you don't is because you are submitting your rights and subjugating yourself (I.e. putting yourself under). When cops and judges ask you if you 'understand', whether they realize it or not, that is what they are asking "do you stand under/submit" That is where jurisdiction comes in and the only time a king can have anyone over them in jurisdiction is if they violate someone else's rights and are sued. If you (or anyone) doesnt know and comprehend the foundations of law then I highly recommend you take interest, because violating it is a catastrophic mistake, just like blacks not being recognized as people, forced taxation, implied contracts, eminent domain, etc. They (the founders) acknowledged the law "we hold these truths to be self-evident..." But didnt abide by it and look where we are today, hardly anyone knows law and it is violated daily and justified by the ignorant. Back to your reply, what is the difference between a park and a highway? If you aren't stealing it from one person and giving it to anotherz what are you doing? You might say "giving it to many people", which begs the question, how many people have to benefit from the theft for it to be justified? (When I say ignorant I mean in the literal sense, not as a pejorative)
Sounds like good common sense to me Ed. It’s like buying a really expensive piece of property with all kinds of frontage that must be maintained - and yet most towns/cities either own, or have a ROW of 60’ - or 30’ out from the center line of the road. Then there’s sidewalk repairs and maintenance that are the property owners responsibility but that’s a whole other subject... J
"Fair market value" is complete nonsense. Value is determined by two parties, the one selling/offering a service and the one buying/using a service, if the owner does not wish to sell or trade that means his property is invaluable. This is fundamental stuff. Dont get upset, I am not asking such questions to be ridiculous, I am asking to figure out exactly where you are coming from so I can understand your foundational beliefs and how you derive and justify eminent domain as amoral. Slavery has been around since the dawn of time, but once we recognize it as immoral we should be compelled to correct ourselves. You are making a fallacy called 'appeal to tradition'. You are a prime example of why we have a mess of a world, and it isnt just you it is almost everyone. You construct your worldview on emotions instead of principles and in attempt to make your worldview appear coherent to yourself and others, you have to perform mental gymnastics and logical fallacies. It doesnt need to be that way. Imagine trying to teach a child your moral framework "stealing is wrong, and eminent domain seems like stealing but since it benefits a whole lot of people and they were paid fair market value, it is not stealing and not wrong" Whereas I teach a child "stealing is wrong, always wrong" You have taught the child that with enough twisted logic you can steal and get what you want, which breeds exactly what we have in government and corporations, criminals who will always look for a way to screw over others to benefit themself. What I have taught is simple, rock solid logic which breeds the kind of people you would want as your neighbor. I urge you to do some introspection before you reply.
I can have zero influence if I am off living my ideal life, instead I will stick around and attempt to help the lost souls so that and in hopes that a future generation can enjoy true liberty.
That is a great and pertinent example actually. Either someone else owns the sidewalk and it is their responsibility or you own it and it is your responsibility. How in the hell can someone force you to tend to their property? What do you call it when you are forced to tend someone elses property?
Parks are for fun and recreation while a highway is a necessity. Without highways we'd starve to death. You may think we don't need any more highways and perhaps we don't but without eminent domain we wouldn't have the highways we have now. Your idea of private property may have worked a few hundred years ago but no longer. You agree to abide by eminent domain laws when you buy property. It's one of the rules of ownership. You can accept it or not but you can't change it. It's just the way property ownership works at this point in this country. It's like we don't really own the property, we just buy exclusive rights for it's use as long as we use it in accordance with the laws.
Nope - I’m realistic. And “Fair Market Value” refers to the “current going rate” or “what something is worth right now - today”. You can vent all you like, come on GrassCity and say “the Government is stealing”, write a Letter to The Editor of the biggest NY newspapers but by golly if a highway is gonna go thru the back of your yard or a reservoir is going to be built then Dadgum It - that highway is going thru or that reservoir WILL BE BUILT. That’s all there is to it. Be realistic dude - you may not like it but yeah man - it IS what it IS. “I can have zero influence if I am off living my ideal life instead I will stick around and attempt to help the lost souls” Really?? Lol Are you a preacher? A minister? Is GrassCity just one stop along the way? J