Give you links? How about you read a history book. I wouldn't know where to start on the Web because of the vast amount of misinformation on it. I get my knowledge from more concrete sources. Books. But it seems that those aren't sufficient for you either, you seem content eating up the propogated bullshit that these atheists are feeding you. i dont have a problem with being atheist, but I do have a problem with discounting historical truths in order to further your non-religious agenda. I am perfectly content with you being ignorant... but are you?
EXACT copies of everyone of these letters can be bought at most any Christian book store. You can find copies written in the ancient languages of Aramaic and Hebrew, or translated modern day English versions. (Personally, if you are able to read Hebrew, they are the most fun to read because the books actually start from the back, and read to the front. Almost opposite of our modern day American Literature.) Here are a few references I found simply from wiki. I will update this post as frequently as possible with more links: The 7 letters considered genuine by most scholars, and doubted by almost none: -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_the_Romans -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippians -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_the_Galatians -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Philemon -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Corinthians (Spoken of by me in another thread) -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Corinthians -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Thessalonians The letters thought to be pseudepigrapha by the majority of modern scholars, according to recent standards of analysis and theoretical trends, are: -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastoral_epistles -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Timothy -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Timothy -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Titus -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephesians (pseudepigrapha means possibly not written by the person originally thought to be the author) Although, the letters do exists, there is much argument between who wrote them...Actually it's quite a good debate and I am a supporter of the original authors being correct. The letters on which modern scholars are about evenly divided are: -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossians -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Thessalonians An anonymous letter that nearly all modern scholars agree was probably not written by Paul is: -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_the_Hebrews (On this argument I actually agree that Paul was not the author, but trivial matters such as these don't mean as much as the wisdom found within these documents in my opinion.) Several non-canonical epistles exist claiming or having been claimed to have been written by Paul: -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Epistle_to_the_Corinthians -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_the_Laodiceans -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_of_the_Corinthians_to_Paul And since wiki definition definitely is never enough to support any side of anything (lol) I'll go on a little more. I only posted these links so you can learn when these scriptures where written, where they were found, and who wrote them. The oldest surviving complete text of the New Testament is the Codex Sinaiticus, dating back to the middle of the fourth century. The oldest fragments, the Bodmer and Beatty Papyri and Papyrus 52, date back to the second century but only contain bits of the Gospel of John. All of these texts are Greek. Here is a picture of this document: The leaves measure 15"x14". The letters were written in brown ink, four columns per page, with 48 lines to a column, and usually 12-16 letters perline. (Thought I'd add that to show how carefully written it was.) Scholars have identified three scribes as having produced the manuscript. The one who was involved with the NT is labeled Scribe A. It can be shown that the scribe of the OT copied the manuscript from dictation in part of that portion. Likewise, it is held that the NT portion was copied down from a written example. Taken altogether, perhaps as many as nine correctors worked on the manuscript from the fourth to the twelfth century. Here's a little work on the translation done by scholars (which is now an exact match of our modern day Bible.) So there's some decent proof I'd suppose, although looking for proof won't solve the problem of "to believe, or not to believe" Regardless it's the closest to an answer you are going to receive here I think. I have studied many different religions by the way, and so far, the only one I can't seem to disprove is Christianity. (But this statement is all my opinion of course, so please don't take it as fact.) I'm just saying with everything I've read, and the various books I've went through and studied, the Holy Bible simply hasn't been dis proven by any credible scholar to date. Anyways, I am myself a Christian (saved for five years now), and I have many very good reasons to believe what I believe. I'm not here to argue anything I've posted, I only wanted to yet again shed some light. If anyone has any serious questions about what I've posted, or Christianity in general, please feel free to PM me with whatever you needed to know. I'll try to help. ^^ Have fun guys, and see ya soon! EDIT: BTW the scripture picture I posted was written around 400 A.D. (After Death) I mentioned that somewhere within the chaos of my post, but I thought I'd put it down again here in case anyone didn't read it.
What would I do if I died and found out everything Christian's said were true all along? I would be beyond pissed off, and I might even end up giving God and Jesus the finger, telling them their little test was bullshit, they are obviously not loving, holy, righteous, good, or kind, and that every moment I spend burning in hell will be a moment I spend cursing their vulgar names. How will Jesus respond? He will burn me for an eternity because I did not believe in him... If I had a son and shot him in the head because he did not believe in me, I'd be arrested. But, if Jesus/God does it, it is a good and noble thing! I would have no love, no repentance, and no concern for the whims of a capricious God. His actions in the Bible, his wish to damn people in hell for not believing in him, while making it nearly impossible for a reasonable person to do so, show that he is unworthy of praise or the title of God. I have read a history book thank you very much. *rolls his eyes* yeah, okay, whatever. Hmmm... I think you have many things confused. @SKeebo - Thank you! It will take me awhile to get through all that, but finally some information beyond Lazysac's veiled insults and assumptions. Again, thanks.
Personally I don't give a damn. If he IS in heaven and forgiving I get forgiven. If he isn't feeling forgiving then I'm dead anyway, who cares. MelT
ha! you proved me so fucking right. your not religious because of what you think religion is. most assume jesus and god are just angry beings with power. you got it all wrong. i dont even consider god a being of any type, maybe he doesnt even think. maybe he is just the force of a repeating pattern that keeps the univers in check.
If that is the case then I will never meet Jesus when I die... Here, if you want to know why I am not relgious, give this Thread a read.
It's not a question of Did Jesus Really Exist? It's Jeus Does Exist. Absolutely great to have another Christian on board! Keep up the good work SKeebo, but most importantley keep God on your side, which i see, you most certainley have.
Little aggressive there don't you think? Small point though to everyone - you can't use Josephus to bear out the Jesus story as he wasn't born until 7 years after jesus' death, he was writing what he had heard. MelT
I am 'not religious because of what I think religion is'? LOL! You haven't got a clue what I think religion is, I was brought up as a christian and have studied theology for years. Too hasty you see dude, just too hasty... MelT
Shiva. Vishnu. Zeus. All religions' version of "God". Can't think of a better fictitious character than the established, accepted version of "God" that has been used, abused, misused, distorted, twisted, or stretched to influence people. Not denying there's a higher power- I believe that for my own personal reasons... But mans' image of god is, in my opinion, fairly presumptuous, pretentious arrogant and ignorant... Considering "it" (god/gods) has/have not made themselves physically apparent and told people what "it" is all about... Man assumes. Then where is he, exactly? I'd like to meet this guy and talk to him.. He seemed to have a lot of confusion and emotional problems in his life, not to mention the rage, the violence... Not to mention, he supposedly lived about 2,000 years ago.. So.. Unless his zombie corpse is wandering around the earth somewhere, I'm fairly sure he doesn't exist in present time, as you're implying. His remains may exist, but Jesus is pretty much dead. Has been for a long time.
To me, it wouldn't matter either way. Jesus can be a concept to me, He doesn't have to be real for me to be saved by His message. Christians may disagree, but I'm not saying that a mass-murder can be saved by the grace of Jesus Christ while Gandi goes to hell either- It just doesn't sit too well with me, so I take the good from it and leave all the mystery to someone else. I like mystery and all but the morals and values are what I believe in Jesus Christ for, not the fact He can save me from my sins. In fact, I don't like the idea of someone dying for my sins that I should be accountable for. To me, what Christ did was sacrifice Himself to show us the way-
33 Posts in and no one's got any proof? The New testament and what the Roman-Catholic Church have got to say is not rpoof. Here's the truth on Jesus. <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NgJIt_sxWcw"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NgJIt_sxWcw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> Just the latest "Savior" of the Greatest Story Ever Told.
Yes, I believe Jesus of Nazareth was a flesh and blood human. Was he the son of god? no I don't think so.
Dude, just check out the video and take your "beliefs" to the next level... knowledge. Acknowledging Jesus' existence is to justify his teachings. And to justify his teachings is to justify the Bible. Jesus is a fictional character based on the relation of the Earth to the sun as it travels through the Constellations. aka Astrology.
i would be nothing but a liar if i said that someone who i have a beautiful, meaningful relationship with, does not exist.
Necrophilia is illegal sir, no matter how "meaningful" the relationship... ||edit|| But I hear talk of a certain Catholic church that would pay a pretty penny for those remains you seem to have
I'm on your side, but that video had just about every point wrong. See the thread on Horus/Jesus. There are many more supposed comparisons with other people and religions which really do not baer out. Don't rely on this as factual. MelT