Diagnosis of plants! Please help!

Discussion in 'Growing Marijuana Indoors' started by Smalltowner420, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. It comes time for my first post guys. After reading the wealth of knowledge on this site and growing a few times successfully, :smoke: I have finally run into my first "disaster" after coming back from a long weekend away:confused:.

    I have a huge walk in closet but am using a wooden storage cabinet as my growing case. Not the best but I have to make something happen. Here are some details:

    Grow Cabinet: 5' tall / 2' wide / 1' deep
    Light: Metal Halide 175W built in ballast hanging from top inside cabinet
    Cycle: 20/4 Veg stage
    Plants: (2) OG KUSH Clones now 14" wanting to flip to flower
    (1) Tasmanian Skunk 12" wanting to flower
    Soil: Scotts plant mix flower soil mixed with perlite and dolomite lime.
    Soil pH: 6.8-7
    Fert/Feed/Water: Distilled water + Botonicare Grow + Superthrive |pH=6.0

    I bought all of them as clones at the dispensary and they have been VERY HEALTHY up until the past few days. I did a large watering of all three plants until fluid slowly streamed out of the holes in the bottom. This is right after I took about 5 clone cuttings total a few from each of the plants.

    I also had just received my Organic Pesticide Foliar in the mail and mixed some up and drenched the plants in it once as I wanted to be safe since I have a dog around even though my area is very clean.

    The clones cut at 45 degrees went into cloning gel and then in soaked rockwool cubes. The breathable holed out tray is set on top of another tray full of perlite. This is sitting on top of my grow cabinet with a 7" humidity dome and (2) T5 Florescent bulbs day light spectrum.

    So...I took cuttings, watered, sprayed pesticide, and left for about 5 days. Everything was green, healthy, and thriving when I left. Now, the Tasmanian Skunk plant is falling apart. The leaves are sucking under and simply look like a number of things.

    Below are a ton of pictures to help out. It's long I know, but hopefully it pays off. The two OG plants are still great so it's a little weird as I did the same with each plant. The clones are drooping over and were dry. I did have a buddy spray the dome and air it out once a day but I don't know if it was enough.

    Let me know what you think! Thanks in advance all, help me bring these babies back!
     

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  2. Nice looking plants. They seem very healthy and will be quite bushy. They look perfect for a LST. Props
     
  3. Also, I have these big boys in small pots to fit the space. I am VERY WORRIED that the roots have no where to go and may be causing some problems for the Skunk. Look at the leaves in the pictures, they are brittle, curling under and drooping. Root rot? Over fert? I have no idea!

    The clones is another problem...the two skunk clippings are still looking good as they were very small cuts. The large OG quality clippings I took are drooped over and feel like they aren't going to make it!

    How do I get these 5 day old clones back to health? OR is it too late?

    Much 420 love. Peace.
     

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  4. Smalltowner420, in your grow box what is the humidity looking like? I didn't see any ventilation in the shot of the grow area.

    From the pictures, I'd say that the plants that you have in veg where the leaves are curling and turning black could be from overwatering causing a Phosphorous deficiency. What is your soil pH looking like?

    For the clone, I think you have the rockwool too wet. I can see some standing water in the tray (maybe just from condensation...) but the rockwool does look really soggy in that shot. Maybe give it a squeeze to get some out. I'm not sure if it is too late though...time will tell :eek:
     
  5. I've been having trouble keeping the humidity high in the grow chamber. Mostly around 35-42 degrees humidity. They easily could have been over watered and on top of that, the one plant that is having problems is only in a 6" diameter pot that isn't deep at all. Maybe roots have no where to go? I plan on transplanting all three into larger buckets today. Good idea?

    On the clones, I took those pictures right after I sprayed the dome and rockwool cubes generously because after coming home from vacation they were bone dry.

    Now I have trimmed a few large droopy leaves on the OG cuttings to let them absorb more into the roots and not leaf.

    Any suggestions for me? I have no idea how to bring these guys back to health!

    Thanks to all.
     
  6. Another thing I just noticed in your picture is that you light seems pretty far away from your plants. Is that as low as you can get it?

    Your 175W MH probably has around an initial 16000 lumens. It looks like in the photo that your light is about 3ft. off the tops. That means that they are only getting around 1800 lumens at the canopy top. Try lowering it to around 18 in. (do it over the course of a few days). That will help bring the lumens to the canopy up to around 7,104 which is a hell of alot better :smoke:
     
  7. Ventilation on the grow cabinet has a fan running fresh air from the room into the grow box. I DO leave the doors cracked open 24/7 to allow airflow and of course keep the temp around 78 deg.

    pH of dying plant SOIL after watering with fert mix = 7.0 or maybe even above to be honest. The testing kit I have was like a teal green/blue which is very hard to read but def not in the 6.5 range.

    THink we may be on to something...any thoughts on lowering?
     
  8. Thanks for the tips, I actually just had the plants about 18 inches away from light on a shelf and after coming back from vacation, they grew another 2 1/2 inches and burnt the top leaves of my OGs.

    The pictures you are seeing are my response to heat exposure and now the tops are only 23" away from light. Not ideal but wanted to give them a break.

    Let me know where to go from here as I didn't expect the pH flux as I have been very careful.
     
  9. Ah, yes now I think it definitely makes sense that it is a Phosphorous deficiency. P uptake slow a bunch when the pH is >7. Are you pH balancing your irrigation water after you add the nutes? Ideally you should have the pH between 6.5-6.8. Some strains, like the super silver haze I'm growing like it even lower around 5.6-6.

    If I were you I'd spend a bit ($20-$30) on a better pH tester. I personally can never read the strips accurately. I have this one and it works fine and didn't cost that much. : http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/it...t Instruments-_-Water Quality Testing-_-4KF20

    To raise or lower the pH get some hydroponic or aquarium grade pH up and pH down solutions. Make sure you don't lower it to fast, maybe .1 each watering until you get to the 6.5-6.8 range.
     
  10. Thanks PixelPusher "props" for the feedback and timely at that!

    Let me know if you think these steps sound about right...

    1. Transplant all three into larger buckets for root growth
    2. Let the new moist soil settle and establish in new medium as the soil is wet at the moment.
    3. pH feeding water for next feeding in days to come around 6.8 with bloom fert.
    4. Flip lights to bloom cycle 12/12 once established.

    For the clones...

    I rang out the rockwool so it's just moist...it's been about 5 days. Should I take off the humidity dome slowly? When should it be taken off? Roots showing I have no idea.

    With the phosphorus lockout due to the overwatering...if I let them dry out will that gradually help? Should they just be soaking up nutes and returning to lush green over time or should I be doing something besides what's mentioned above?

    Thanks again for the feedback! Much appreciated!
     
  11. Just to be clear, the P lockout is not really due to overwatering so much as it is due to the fact that your water pH is too high. As I said, you want to make sure it stays between 6.5-6.8.

    Here's what I would do if I were you:

    1) Wait until the soil is a bit drier that it is now if it is soggy. When it is fairly dry, gently pull off the pots and look at the roots. If they are everywhere and just starting to wrap around the edges transplant it. If you don't see many roots give them some more time in the pot. Meanwhile, trim off any of the leaves that are REALLY (over 50%) black with a fresh razor so that they don't invite rot or mold.

    2) Mix up your water/fert mix as you normally do and then take the pH of it. If it is above 6.8 use a pH down solution to bring it down .1 or so points. If it is really high (like 9 or something...my tap water runs 8.2), bring it down to 7. gradually lower it by .1 over following waterings until you are in that 6.5-6.8 range.

    3) I'd go ahead and flip the lights to 12/12 the same day you transplant. This will get all the shock out of the way at once.


    For the clones, what you did sounds good. You should leave the dome on until the roots take hold. You'll definitely see the roots coming out of the rockwool when they take hold so just wait for them before taking the clones out of the humidity dome. Here is a shot of nicely developed roots (http://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/images/1698/medium/1_batchoclones20.jpg)

    Good luck!
     
  12. Thanks for the clarification.

    The soil is starting to dry in the smaller pot of the effected skunk plant. I am heading to the store to pick up some larger buckets...probably 3 gallon.

    Another questions to you:

    When I take off the pots and check for roots, if they are rooted well and ready for transplant, do I transplant and then water? OR Transplant and let them be?

    Big questions as I don't want to over water these more than they already may have been. Honestly I check my pH of my water/fert and it's NEVER been over 6.8

    This whole thing has me very confused because I have been so careful to keep the pH constant. To have the soil be around 7 or higher is odd. I may have added to much dolomite lime to off-set the low initial pH.

    Give me your thoughts. Much appreciated.
     
  13. Soak them in ocean magic for half an hour
     
  14. Sorry to come into the middle of a discussion, but I doubt your issue is a phosphorus overload. If anything, it is good old nute burn. There is a slight chance that it is phosphorus deficiency, but phosphorus toxicity (overload) is pretty rare. Your Ph hasn't been so out of whack as to cause a big problem, and there aren't any signs or symptoms of Ph fluctuation showing in your pics. I would flush your babies, let them dry out, and re-apply nutes at 1/3 or 1/4 strength. As far as your clones go, the rockwool looks too wet. Let them dry out some and just keep them damp, NOT wet.
     
  15. Thanks guys. Here is some updates with pictures.

    I have finally transplanted all three into large 10" square 2 gallon pots. MUCH MORE ROOM FOR ROOT GROWTH.

    Mixed in fresh soil + perlite + dolomite lime. Much better texture, light and fluffy. It's moist and not wet at all. This is my question...

    DO I NEED TO WATER NOW SINCE I TRANSPLANTED? When do I water these guys? With what formula? At what strength? I have botonicare Bloom formula and superthrive. Given my circumstances I feel like I should let them adapt for a few days until dryer. Feel like I have been watering too much and I am switching to 12/12 tonight as recommended by Pixeljunkie!

    ONE MORE QUESTION:

    When I took out the plants from old pots, one of the strongest OG plants didn't come out clean. Meaning, the pot stuck and about 3/4 of the soil formed potted plant came out. The roots were exposed and very strong, but I DID tear off about 2-3 inches of healthy root that was on the bottom through the gravel. IS THIS A PROBLEM? I honestly didn't think it would be and planted regardless. But is this going to stunt the growth or screw anything up considering I am transplanting, flipping the lights to 12/12 all at the same time?


    CLONES:

    They are coming back! I let them keep just moist, foliar fed them with 1/4 strength grow formula, and have the humidity dome on. TEMP 86 deg/ very humid. They picture may look like the rockwool is wet, it's not. It's moist and inside it's hot and humid.

    Added another fan for more airflow in the blooming section. It's running at 73 deg and 45% humidity with the addition.


    To be honest I feel pretty damn good about the recent moves to get the plants to where they are now. All suggestions and comments are welcome and appreciated guys.

    Thanks to the GC Community and enjoy the pics....
     

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  16. I used to water the clones the day i moved them into bigger pots, what I do now is I soak the puck in water before i plant it and wait for the pot its in to need a watering. At that point I hit it with about 400PPM nutes and lower the lights. Also dont be afraid to foliar feed every 3 days with a diluted mixture of your nutes and a sticking agent. Dish soap works just fine for that.

    You lost some roots with your little accident but no big deal, she'll come back fine in the bigger container. You'll get a few days without the vertical growth because the plant will concentrate on building back the roots.
     
  17. Looking better, I'd say. How are things looking now?
     
  18. Ok quick update:

    TRANSPLANTED ALL THREE & CHANGED SOIL
    Using all Fox Farms Ocean Forest with a heavy perlite mix-in as well. My soil pH is too high around 7.0-7.2

    Haven't watered the plants when I transplanted as the soil is very moist. What should I do from here? Think I'm going to wait a few days till it's a tad more dry and then feeding them with 1/4 strength bloom + superfood + enhanced bloom in distilled water. pH balance that to 6.5 and thorough watering?

    Does that sound right? Any opinions would be great on the topic.

    On a side note, the clones are looking better after the disaster getting home from vacation. Been foliar feeding with 1/4 strength grow formula and superfood. Humidity dome is still on. Although they look better leaf wise and perky-ness, I still don't see rooting through the bottom. It's been 9-10 days since taking the cuttings. Anything I should be doing or should they show any day now?

    Thanks guys.
     
  19. Hey guys wanted to follow up with some pics of the OGs and the Skunk. As I said, it's been a long turbulent road with a recent transplant to Fox Farms Ocean Forest. Much richer soil and much larger pots:hello:

    The two Kush girls are doing fantastic and I am waiting to water them until tomorrow, I wanted them to acclimate to the new soil before feeding heavy. Tomorrow I am going to feed all three plants as the soil is about day from dry.

    These are my ferts:

    1/4 strength botonicare bloom/ Sweet Carb Load 1/4 strength / Bloom Enhancer Organics 1/4 strength

    pH: 6.0? what do you guys think my feeding water should pH at for 1 week bloom?

    My soil pH is a little high around 6.9. Will feeding with a 6.0 pH gradually lower the soil pH over time?

    BONUS ADD ON:

    26W Repti-sun UVB Bulb in the middle of the three blooming plants. I needed something to get some light to the lower branches and buds...through some research I read that UVB Spectrum bulbs add another warm light that the buds love. Let me know what you think. It seems to put off some great light with NO HEAT!

    CLONES:

    These guys are pissing me off...to be honest. I have had the pleasure of spending about 3 hours a day around my small grow setup. My clones that looked promising have now 13 days later still not shown roots. They went dry for a day drooped down, and after a watering and humidity conditions returning...this is what you see. Two of the clones still look strong, green, vigorous. A couple are iffy at best.

    Currently I have the humidity dome slightly misted on 24/7 with my two T5 Floros on top of the dome. The propagation tray is sat on top of perlite for aeration and that is sat on top of a seedling heat mat at 85 degrees. Pretty much perfect conditions I thought.

    Enjoy the pics, I look forward to those OGs, they look promising. Any hope of the skunk coming back? Ha, he looks awful but I'm still going to try.

    THANKS TO THE FORUMS FOR THE FEEDBACK! This is the only spot for the best grow advice in the world! Much appreciated.:smoke:
     

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  20. Had to attach a better view of the cloning tray so you can understand the frustrations!

    In this pic, the clones are semi-green a few worse than others. 2 Kush cuttings look great! Standing strong with some nice leaves. But NO ROOTING AT ALL in 13 Days...what's going on?

    Some help to get these roots coming would be much appreciated. Or are they just gone...

    Thanks again.
     

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