Democrats: Who can unseat Trump?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by VikingToker, Jul 5, 2018.


  1. Here it is. "History demonstrating an altruistic nature"
     
  2. Bruh, have Denmark,Sweden, Finland, Norway, killed millions of people..... ever? Now think of it in the present tense within the last hundred years and look to where the most successful governments are. Democratic socialism does not equal communism.

    And yes, a person like Cortez needs to learn and grow like anyone else who has to learn the things to do their job. You can’t dismiss a person because they’re young and learning. And why would you not want a young bright person with progressive political ideas to be taking this adventure?


    Please take a chill pill and check yourself brother.
     
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  3. If you want to talk about killing millions of people we could also talk about corporate America yknow.....
     
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  4. wait there’s a misunderstanding, I never meant to imply I wanted Cortez for president. Although I don’t think I’d object to it. We should get out of the days of having jaded old people run our government, especially corporatists.
     
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  5. #125 VikingToker, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:44 AM
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018 at 12:49 AM
    See my challenge on Norway, Denmark and Sweden. I notice you ignored it. We are not socialist countries, you do not know what you are talking about, and have been misled, as the twisted idea of our countries is easy to entice voters with. We're extremely capitalistic, cutthroat societies with so much wealth generated by that capitalism that we've added a layer of socialist policies on top. See my level of English? It's on purpose - we're educated to be able to out-compete you. And we do.

    The Sanders/O-Cortez brand of democratic socialism is not what we are running here. And you both can and should dismiss a politician who is clueless on such crucial topics, you'd be screaming the same about someone from a political ideology you disagree with. Trump is clueless on several topics - should he be given time to grow and learn? Or does his cluelesness have consequences as a politician wielding power? How is O-C different, other than having an ideology that you like?

    bizarre to see what tiny boxes people will put themselves in just for their political ideologies these days, and still consider themselves rational
     
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  6. You have to realize that we were conditioned (programmed with propaganda of the state) all through school... we were taught that the USA was the only pure, clean noble country on the planet and we were always working in the best interest of those in other countries. as well as taking care of our own...

    We were not taught (at least it was not emphasized) the differences between socialism, capitalism, Marxism, etc.... over the course of decades with the "cold war" and tension between the USSR and USA it was also a time of dismantling the "new deal"... The super mega rich wanted their taxed dollars back and were hell bent on giving the socialists the same bad rep associated with USSR's communism...

    It's been a non stop assault by the state on people organizing and speaking up for workplace and civil rights... unions are all but extinct and co-ops haven't grown or taken off like in Europe... The capitalists that control the mega bucks simply want cheap labor and if they had their way it would be free labor by way of robotics... they don't give a damn about the "working class" never have, never... oh there have been a few smaller business owners (i don't consider them capitalists) who have given back to their employees, even leaving the business to them believe it or not... they are few and far between and not huge publicly traded corporations.

    My take is we could use a lot more bartenders, barbers, cab drivers, etc. in city and state government... those who excel could go on to federal positions if they do away with "citizens united" and the huge sums of special interests money, lobbyists, etc.

    DemSocs are here to give voice to the people, yes, even those who voted for and support 45 if they are working class in the lower 2/3 wealth bracket. Crooked crony corporate state capitalism has created this resurgence.

    We can thank tRump and his supporters for that and for that i am truly grateful... they are growing this movement exponentially with every bit of legislature crammed down our throats, each tweet, rally, meme and post.
     
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  7. So when I hear Bernie sanders speak about the Nordic countries, he’s wrong or manipulating my ideas? For some reason I tend to listen to sanders versus anecdotal stuff from you. I don’t think I’m misled, I’m well aware you are a democratic socialist nation, with capitalism. But your social policies are far better than the USA.
     
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  8. Do you really think Trump is jaded?
     
  9. You should be able to get what I'm saying without nitpicking. No I don't think Trump is jaded in particular, I was speaking in general. Trump is very passionate about getting more money and tooting his own horn.
     
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  10. Okay, you didn't mean there actually were jaded old men running the government, it was just a figure of speech?
     
  11. Perhaps jaded is not a suitable word since it's not getting my point across to you. We have old, predominantly caucasian people who are so comfortable enriching their own wealth and power at the expense and regardless of others. We need fresh or fresher faces and young people who came from humble beginnings without vested interests, starting to represent us.

    Or shit, throw me some democratic socialist grannies in there, I don't give a fuck. But something progressive needs to be the plan of action in my opinion, otherwise we're stuck in this hole of making rich people richer at our own expense.
     
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  12. Try to separate yourself for a moment from your ideology - let's remove labels from things, and examine this statement, as the reasonable political observers we are:

    "A politician may seek to gain voters by promising something that sounds wonderful."

    Could this possibly apply to Bernie Sanders? If not, why not?
     
  13. I see and agree with this statement! Corporations are competitors, and will do what they can to win. Yet, surprisingly, I never see the US left call for limits to immigration, even though it damages the prospects of US citizens who work in unskilled labor fields, and directly feeds into the corporations best wishes. Does uncontrolled mass immigration favor the corporations by way of providing that cheap labour?

    Immigration is always (through history, too) worst for the poorest, and best for the richest. Sucks for the other unskilled immigrant that more are coming off the boat, but Henry Ford has a bigass smile on his lips, more human meat for the factory line grinder, and more competition at the bottom level, so they'll accept even lower wages just to get any wage at all.
    Does that ever factor in, in American left wing political discussion? Or is it considered heresy/blasphemy to suggest that immigration may have downsides for the very same people that the left claims to protect?
     
  14. There was a time I thought like you, we should get rid of the old guys running things and give us young guys a chance. We were the ones who could see clearly and think objectively, right? We were more altruistic and just cared more for our fellow man. Don't trust anyone over 30 isn't exactly a new concept, it's been around as long as man in one form or another. If you can change society by voting out all the old white guys and you follow the constitution then do it. You may want to rethink the race thing, wanting to get rid of people based on skin color is fucked up.
     
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  15. It irritates me when the Nordics are referred to as socialists, it's mainly American's and I blame memes.

    The likes of Norway have managed their assets in a sensible manner and have spent their money very wisely. We just have to look at the likes of the Saudis to see what happens to a country whose natural resources are squandered by the few.

    As you know I'm Irish and Scandinavian countries and their people are held in high regard because of their sensible ways. There is of course a bit of jealousy and this is where I believe the "boring" myth comes from, it's the only logical reason for not squandering the kitty. :)

    The likes of the US could never adopt the Norwegian approach to running a country, they're a different breed are the Yanks and I don't intend that as an insult. They've been reared on war blasting out from 24hr TV news stations. If they're not at war they're gearing up to go to war. The US is like the Duracell Bunny, it never stops.
     
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  16. It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.

    Murray N. Rothbard

    Cortez is a living example of this.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
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  17. Nobody on the left to my knowledge is calling for "uncontrolled mass immigration" at least those in or running for political office.... this is how the right interprets it...

    BTW it seems to me that you have repeatedly said that you are "left leaning" but what i glean from your posts is the opposite.

    I can't say i agree that immigrants from Mexico or any Central America country are taking jobs from white or black citizens... a lot of the unemployment is due to generations of ghetto conditions, mental illness, child abuse from growing up in dysfunctional family situations, general poverty...

    Black and white Americans don't want to pick almonds, avocados, fruit or work in fields harvesting or cultivating vegetables.. if they did they would not be able to produce as much as the fast working Latino immigrants anyway.... they would not be cost effective.

    Let's drop this OPEN BORDERS bullshit propaganda from Traitor Tot and his minions and focus on dealing with the situation in a reasonable and humane manner... Nobody is advocating open borders.. it's simply a scare tactic that Despot Donnie uses to rouse his rebels just like "they want to take away your guns" BS propaganda... Nobody is out to abolish the 2nd amendment... it's all trumped up NRA bullshit.
     
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  18. Not to highjack your thread but...
    I think Norway has some huge problems it is going to have to face in the not to distant future. As competition and new sources of fuel and energy come to the market Norway with its reliance on fossil fuels and American subsidies especially in the way of protection has to start refiguring the way it spends its money. More and more will shift from its citizens to strengthening the state in the name of preserving your interest. This and the fact that we americans can't afford and frankly are JUST PLAIN TIRED of paying for the worlds policing. Especially when Norway does not meet its responsibilities in Nato ( I know you are no fan) in coughing up it 2% for defence, coupled with the fact Norway has business dealings that are working against americas interest. Trump has hinted at and I think a majority of Americans would agree to stop giving aid to protect countries like yours that don't spend their own resources to protect its own interest but instead relies on big brother USA.
    You are developing a good track record with your predictions or what I would call likely outcomes based on rational thought, and I was wondering if you have thought about this? Where do you see your children and grandchildren living, and working? Do you feel your countries lifestyle is sustainable in a ever changing world where billions are on the brink of becoming economic players, and if not do you feel strict immigration and population controls are a must? Also do you think competing ideologies are allowed or looked at as a threat that can collapse the house of cards? It seems to me to be a recipe for disaster from where I stand. The wealth that you Norwegians have accumulated is in the process of being consolidated into the states hands. Public needs and wants will always change and as your generation grows older it will inevitably become more restrictive. This in my view will lead to a political divide between the generations like you see on your tv that we have here in America.
    If your oil generates 25% less in revenue in the next 10 yrs and you have to pay for your own military and China and India produce over a billion people that are educated and trained in a market that you will be competing globally with how do you see your country stacking up? Does Norway build walls, or does Norway open up?
    A short article to illustrate some of what i'm trying to say;

    President Trump reportedly touted Norway last week, comparing it favorably with Haiti and other countries he described in scatological terms. Though there are surely wonderful Norwegians, the government in Oslo calls to mind the Barry Switzer line: “Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple.”

    Norway is fabulously wealthy, thanks to North Sea oil. Its economic output per capita is 20% higher than America’s. Little Norway’s government pension fund is the world’s third largest, valued at around $1 trillion. Lucky geography has allowed the country to become a cradle-to-grave welfare state, with free university tuition and universal health care. Norwegians topped the global happiness rankings in 2017. Only 502 of them moved to the U.S. in 2016.

    Last week Mr. Trump praised Norway as a “great ally.” Despite vast wealth and generous social spending, however, the Norwegians skimp when it comes to the common defense of the U.S. and Europe. Norway is a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, but it consistently fails to meet the NATO guideline of putting 2% of gross domestic product toward its military. Instead, Norway relies for protection on the U.S., which spent 3.3% of GDP on defense in 2016.


    One might expect Norwegians to appreciate the imbalance in their favor. But at times Oslo acts toward the U.S. like some cartoon “limousine liberal” who sneers at the cops and the methods they use to protect his neighborhood. Norway’s government pension fund has singled out for divestment several U.S. defense contractors—including Boeing , Honeywell ,Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman —“because they are involved in production of nuclear weapons.” But these companies help make such weapons only for the U.S. government, and NATO’s most recent strategic review declares America’s nuclear umbrella to be “the supreme guarantee” of the alliance’s security.

    Norway’s pension fund divested from Wal-Mart for purported “serious violations of human rights.” Despite Norway’s reliance on oil, the fund has divested from some two dozen U.S. companies because they produce a different fossil fuel, coal.

    In 2016 Norway’s government authorized its pension fund, controlled by the country’s finance ministry, to purchase Iranian government bonds. Thus, the fund boycotts U.S. defense companies, while allowing investments in the government of Iran, the leading state sponsor of terrorism and a patron of Bashar Assad’s atrocities in Syria. Norway is also quickly building academic, banking, energy and other ties with Tehran.

    That’s a contrast with Oslo’s cool stance toward Israel. In May, Norway’s biggest trade union, which represents a quarter of the working-age population, voted for a complete boycott of Israel. Press reports in December suggested that Oslo would cut funding for nongovernmental groups that advocate boycotts of Israel. But on Jan. 2 the Norwegian mission in Palestine announced that no policy had changed and “as before, the Norwegian Government will not provide support to organizations that have stated boycott of Israel as their primary goal” (emphasis added). At the United Nations last month, Norway voted to criticize America’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Haiti abstained.

    Rather than praise Norway, Mr. Trump should be holding it accountable for how it chooses to spend—or not spend—the vast fortune it received from geography’s lottery. As a NATO member whose defense is subsidized by the U.S., Norway should not be investing in enemy governments while undermining allies and American defense contractors. Worryingly, these actions are part of a growing pattern in Europe. Many governments are happy taking shelter under America’s defense umbrella while boycotting the companies that make it possible.

    There is currently no U.S. government office that tracks or counters such boycotts, but there ought to be. An obvious place to start is the Commerce Department, which does have a small office focused on Arab government boycotts of Israel. That mission should first be expanded to include anti-Israel boycotts fostered by the U.N. and other international organizations. Then the Commerce Department unfortunately needs to start protecting American companies and workers from a broader range of boycotts, including Norway’s.
     
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  19. I bet you don't even see the bigotry in your statement. In your mind you probably think you're complimenting Latinos by saying their genetic heritage predisposes them to be first class strawberry pickers. You probably think black people can pick cotton faster than white people.
     
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  20. I was thinking about this a day or two ago, hopefully the people of Norway (and much if Europe) are wise and vigilant in protecting their wealth, liberty and way of life. I suspect, and have said so for years, that these immigration problems are likely manufactured. Poor immigrants today, terrorist tomorrow, power transferred and liberty lost the day after...

    Not that I am against the immigrants, the West has decimated many of their countries directly or indirectly, I just think they are unwitting tools.

     
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