Democracy

Discussion in 'Politics' started by flashinthepants, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. The UK is supposedly democratic, but we vote for parties with manifestos and ideas that they think are right for the country - we can't tailor them and vote on what we like or dislike, we have to vote for the lesser of two evils. now i'm not sure of America and Congress and that shit, but is it the same there?

    and does this process seem like true democracy? cos as far as i can tell, these are promises easily/often broken... and i wonder am i the only one that thinks a referendum on any changes suggested should be made - admittedly at the risk of slowing down procedure... or is this me being naive?
     
  2. Welcome to Democracy '012. Where its choose your dictator or we will choose for you.
     
  3. We use representative democracy for Federal government, but states can decide how democratic they want to be. Some have direct democracy with initiatives and referendums.

    I think that can be great if you have a like-minded society. I don't know how UK is, but in the US someone in Montana has a completely different set of priorities from someone in Missouri and someone in New York... so direct democracy on such a large scale would just piss off a lot of people.


    Switzerland has it right:
    Why Switzerland Is Still Free and America Is Not by Ron Holland
     

  4. in terms of states - similar in some ways to our 'counties' - do they vote upon things in more of a piecemeal or wholesale basis?
    the easiest way for me to compare/explain it in the UK would be (if Barack Obama ran for UK prime minister) he would have a set manifesto and laws/amendments/intentions for if he is voted into No. 10... so in a sense we have simulated democracy, hence 'lesser of two evils' analogy, as we get little or no say as to what they do if we vote them in.

    so basically does someone running for presidency outline their intentions in a manifesto beforehand, and once in office doesn't need to give the people any say in matters? or are things more often than not put down to public vote?
     
  5. The President has a "platform", as we call it, which are the policies they support. Sometimes they will have "plans", like Obama and national health care, but they do not actually write them they just tell their lackeys in congress to do it.

    All the President is supposed to do is command troops and sign bills into law. If they do not want to sign a bill into law, then 2/3rds of the legislature would have to override their veto.

    The union votes for President every 4 years, and congress ever 2 years. Congress is intended to more accurately represent public interests.
     
  6. Democracy is mob rule. We can't just advertise to the majority and make whatever they feel law, we must actually think stuff through, apply logic, and make sure it's beneficial to all before we force it on everyone.
     
  7. This.

    And America is currently what I like to call a financial democracy, on it's way to complete fascism. In a financial democracy, the people with the majority of money make the rules, instead of the majority of the people making the rules. And as long as dumb Americans keep voting for the guy who makes the most money, even while bitching at the 1%, things will never get better. People are stupid and they're so dependent on the state they don't know where to turn but to Big Brother.
     
  8. We're a constitutional monarchy, not a democracy. The queen retaains near-absolute power, she ust doesn't use it.
     
  9. Like gedio said, the UK is a constitutional Monarchy. It's system is almost identical to Canada's system, and both are actually quite different from the American free-market (yeah right) sytem. Our governments have more power at the federal level, while he Americans have more power at the state level.

    The problem with democracy as a whole though is that no matter what happens or who gets voted in, there will always be people bitching about how they aren't getting their way. This is because not everybody is the same. This becomes very evident if you travel often and meet different people in different locales.

    For example: I live in British Columbia, a Canadian Province on the West Coast. Out here, people are very liberal. They believe in legalization, stopping big oil, logging, other enterprises that may hurt the environment; public funding for everything under the sun, and inevitably raising taxes in order to either help economic recovery, bridge the gap between rich and poor, or both.

    These views make sense for the area of the country, as the countryside is quite beautiful and the culture reflects the free-spirit that the people here have.

    However, as you go father east you will find the shift in politics quite intense. In the prairie provinces, there is a much more conservative view. They view industry as a good thing for the economy, and that lowering taxes and giving people more control of their cash will help them prosper.

    I personally hold Conservative views; a rarity in both BC and in Grasscity. I see things in a broader sense and though I do not agree entirely with everything conservative (I do enjoy recreational drugs and I do think that there are some things that should be government regulated, such as gas prices), I do believe that every man makes his own and that punishing those with the drive to try and make a success of themselves is counter-intuitive.
     

  10. You mean plutocracy? lol :smoke:
     
  11. democracy is NOT a good idea, for many reasons.

    1. majority will does not overrule individual rights or morality. it is NOT right to rob people just because a majority approves it. just because you have a badge and you call it "taxes" doesn't change that you are siezing money using the force of arms. "just because a lot of people do it doesn't mean it's right." that's a common thing people say about morals. but it's turned on its head with democracy. the message of democray is -- your property rights are nullified with majority consent. your ownership of your body may is nullified with majority consent. your right to free association is nullified with majority consent. all of these allegedly inalienable rights are always taken away by the majority. ask any politician and they will tell you that it's permissible to do so for the "collective good." that's what we call MOB RULE, which is what democracy boils down to.

    2. people are fucking stupid. who elected bush and obama? who elected the representatives who have maintained drug prohibition for all these years? try reading any poll that asks for actual knowlege. no one knows shit! it's totally insane to think that people who can't point to iraq on a map can decide if its civilians should be starved to death or bombed.

    3. it's ridiculously shortsighted. why does every president and nearly all congressmen constantly increase the national debt? they know it's unsustainable, why do they do it? because if they don't, they'll face a reckoning from the special interests and the populus at large in 2, 4, or 6 years! real economists warned of the housing bubble, but politicians didn't care -- "people are happy making big money, if we try to deflate it now we won't win next year". and of course, when it does burst, they blame free enterprise and proclaim the only solution is to give them more power.

    4. it's an impractical utopian idea. everybody who believes in democracy recognizes there are problems with the current system. but they always say "just wait til the next election, then we'll get the right people in office. that'll fix everything :)" notice that IT NEVER HAPPENS? every election cycle the "will of the people" chooses the next power freak to be king for 4 years (in the US). drug prohibition, endless foreign wars, and piles of dead bodies continue to mount. we're now on the verge of a police state -- the 4th Amendment rendered meaningless, the military given indefinite detention powers, local police being given more and more military weapons by the feds. all which is approved by the 51%. is it right?

    5. it's deliberately engineered to appease the masses. remember "hope and change 2008?" ever seen the enthusiastic ron paul supporters? well, "hope and change" got elected, didn't keep his promises, and made things a shit ton worse. just as every president of the last century. and guess what, all the energy that ron paul supporters pour into his campaign? it's all wasted when the establishment keeps him out of the limelight. if that energy was put towards resisting and protesting the evils of our current system, the power elite would be in real danger. so of course they prefer it's wasted in a pissing contest!

    so look, quit being fooled by the ridiculous notion that majority will is somehow legitimate to oppress the minorities. it's got no basis is morality or practicality and it only leads to destruction and oppression. the world took millennia to reject the "divine right of kings." how much longer until we reject the divine right of the majority? kings never had as much power as modern democracies do. even wars between monarchies are mere skirmishes by today's standards. if taxes were at today's level under a king, that king would be overthrown. "i don't want my money going to those rich people!" everyone would say. but today, when taxes go to the collectivist "we", people are willing to see the tax rates skyrocket and get little in return. it's a cruel reality that citizens have to pay to build their own cages. don't be fooled by the politicians and the corporations that are in bed with them! democracy is nothing but a god that failed.
     

  12. The electoral college... the US isn't a democracy. The only thing we really have that is close to democracy is that some states have a referendum system. Otherwise we're a republic with "strong democratic roots" meaning the electoral college uses the popular vote make their decisions.

    As far as representatives, they lie all the time to get into office and are bought out as soon as they do. They rarely actually reflect the opinion of the people and are not an example of democracy, but rather a corrupt republic.

    Regardless, democracy is still mob rule and I agree with most everything else you said. Just don't make the mistake of mistaking the US for a democracy just because they told you that in school. We are nowhere near a democracy. Just because our constitution starts with "We the people" and we elect our representatives via voting doesn't make us a democracy. lol
     
  13. democracy /=/ Democracy


    just saying.
     

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