I'm pretty content with our system. We pay very high taxes (the richest people pay 52% income tax) but it's not spent on bullshit like a war on drugs or a war on terror and shit like that. We pay a lot but we get a lot in return. For instance, the government pays my tuition fee for school and I get free public transport on weekdays because I'm a student. Also practically everyone in my country has health insurance. It's mandatory, and if you really can't afford it the government will pay a part or all of it. Gas prices are also extremely high. Gas is heavily taxed. I just did some converting from euros to dollars and liters to gallons, and found that one gallon of unleaded costs 8.20 dollars here. What we get in return is great public transport and bicycle lanes everywhere. Also our roads are very well maintained. Even if you go into the worst parts of the city, the roads look good.
Typical defense by a socialist. There are different forms of socialism. No one owns the term socialism it has been used to describe many different systems just like capitalism and democracy has been used to describe many different systems. Socialism and communism inevitably turn toward authoritarianism. The National Socialist Party just like the Communists in the USSR wanted to centralize and collectivize power. I have read many different books on socialism, it is not evil just flawed.
If you've read many books on socialism you'd understand the differences between Marxism and Leninism. And if you actually read my post you'd see where I acknowledged the existencee of non-Marxian socialism. These socialisms varied in management and organization but were all in agreement that the means of production are held in commons instead of privately or government-owned. It's Leninism you speak of that inevitably leads to dictatorship. Specifically the later incarnation of 'Marxism-Leninism' which was a way of saying Stalinism. Lenin envisioned "State Capitalism" through his New Economic Policy as a way of achieving socialism, and later communism. In other words, the government owned everything. There were soviets but they had little control. Stalin later said he had actually, correctly instituted socialism through 'state capitalism'. Which was false. If you repeat a lie often enough, people believe it. And if you'd read my post you'd understand it's fucking impossible for communism to lead to a dictatorship. Communism precludes a state and class divisions. How does something that specifically doesn't have a government nor class divisions lead to a dictatorship? Typical ignorance by a right-winger.
Venezuela tambien, mi amigo. North Korea is communist, cuba is communist, china is communist. The nazi's had the word socialist but idk if they acted on that. Many other countries would be socialist if we didn't destroy them as soon as they did (see most of: south america, middle east, soviets (although they fucked themselves by expanding and being general assholes), parts of asia)
We'll see how Venezuela plays out, but remember what I said: in a Constitutional US, I don't care if you Socialize your State.
Capitalism and democracy are antithetical in government. That is not to say capitalism in the market is antithetical, but in the government. No one should buy and sell elections and politicians, and they should make average salary. I do however recognize that socialism on a grand scale is hard to work. But, freedom is not. Therefor allowing smaller areas to do socialist things is the best path, but i do believe in a government (local and federal) whose policies support the average American and the working class. I would rather high local taxes then federal taxes. I would like to see democracy in the work place and a salary cap based on the highest and lowest salaries in the business. Things like this, not EVERYTHING IS OWNED BY GOVERNMENT, A GOVERNMENT RUN BY THE RICH It seems counter productive. Slow, gradual and compromise based reform is best, I think. To the gent who asked about people who already own businesses, fine. Keep them. Just raise the taxes (preferably locally) and use those funds to create socialist programs and/or create government businesses (<--maybe?). Hell, I don't know. I don't believe in just taking over Ma and Pa shoe shiners. Before they give more money to the government we must re-do our government to be bottom up not top down, or government business will be run by rich dudes which is just pointless. I'm not really sure about this question, it certainly deserves a lot of thought.
Bottom-up is Anarchy. And if you want the Constitution, you've got to follow it. That means no regulations or institutions on the Federal level unless they are Constitutionally amended. Btw, Stealing a business and Stealing a percentage of the business is still Stealing.
Then top down is tyranny We've got ourselves a deal Take it up with the founding fathers who allowed federal taxation.
Agreed. I always love to see a Constitutionalist, no matter where else they stand politically. Yes, but they needed someway to pay for their salaries and the debt incurred by the Revolutionary War. It used to be pretty legitimate and very minimal, as well as only taxing certain luxury items (alcohol, tobacco, etc).
Those of you arguing for democracy, have you ever lived in or experienced a real democracy and not just a republic dumbly labelled as a democracy? How about socialism, those of you arguing for socialism? Most of you are probably living in mixed economies, the kind that are balanced and work, like the rest of us. Capitalism, socialism, and communism are all three flawed by themselves. They have massive deficiencies, which is why we try to integrate the best elements of each into our economies today. In America, we have the freemarket and private business, but then we have public schools, etc, but we also have a public welfare system. Also, as you know China is becoming more and more successful. China is mainly communist, but they've been able to find success because they're slowly integrating freemarket concepts into their economy. Not the entire system, just elements of capitalism. The blended mixed-economy allows them to find success whereas communism alone ruined much of Asia's economies. It's silly to argue for just one or the other. It's all been said about both of them, so rather than wasting your time, why not focus on integration and innovation instead? That's what the rest of the people who know what they're talking about are doing...
Exactly. In my country there is a party called the socialist party. It's not taboo or anything here like it seems to be in America. They always get a significant amount of votes. But they're not strict socialists, they just call for more socialist aspects in society. They may be called the socialist party, but they do oppose full-blown socialism. And the right-wing parties here are not like the right-wing parties in America. They are socialists if compared to your republicans. Most of the right-wing parties here call for a slightly more free market but they still want to tax the rich heavily (compared to the US).
Yeah even the liberals in America are extremely right-authoritarian, which is why I laugh when Americans whine about communists being too authoritarian... bit hypocritical. lol
If we had Obama here he would have probably been the most right-wing guy we've ever had here. Except maybe for that one time when Hitler took control.
Amen my brother. Compromise and moderation, coupled with mix and match policies to find the best combo. This i can dig, like norway or the netherlands and places like that
CHINA IS NOT COMMUNIST YOU CAN NOT HAVE A GOD DAMN COMMUNIST COUNTRY\ IT'S A FUCKING OXYMORON Fucking read my previous post in this thread!! The amount of ignorance of far-left ideology in this forum is disgusting. Especially when coming from people who supposedly denounce far-left politics. You are all retarded. TheAtmansPath: Where the hell do you get off advocating reform while sporting a Che avatar?! Disrespect is not tolerated here at the city. Please keep things civil here. Thanks.
[quote name='"Outis"'] CHINA IS NOT COMMUNIST YOU CAN NOT HAVE A GOD DAMN COMMUNIST COUNTRY\ IT'S A FUCKING OXYMORON Fucking read my previous post in this thread!! The amount of ignorance of far-left ideology in this forum is disgusting. Especially when coming from people who supposedly denounce far-left politics. You are all retarded. TheAtmansPath: Where the hell do you get off advocating reform while sporting a Che avatar?![/quote] I realise that China isn't truly communist, although my points didn't at all rely on the discrepancy and I didn't find it necessary to point out. lol I agree with communism on paper, which is not the Asian "communism". In the sense of Asian "communism", China is "communist". You have to learn to read into context. That said, disrespect and name calling isn't only completely unnecessary and ridiculous in this context, but it also isn't tolerated on GC. Please don't contribute unless you can do so within the Forum Guidelines.