Debate: Is Islam the reason or justification for abuse

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by Faeairy, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. You and my girl would have a lot to talk about :)

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  2. Upstairs? :smiley-rolling-joint:
     
  3. I appreciate you posting your views, we need more Muslims willing to defend their faith here. I'm curious, in the above scenario the wife's not obeying her husband and is spending money frivolously so in Islam it's okay to eventually physically punish her. What happens if it's the man who spends money frivolously, is it okay for his wife to cut him off in the bedroom and if that fails, to beat him?
     
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  4. #84 Green Plant, Oct 21, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
    It is the man's responsibility to provide 100% of the household income. If in the marriage agreement it is specified that this is not to be he case, that is, the woman is responsible for the income, she must still uphold her duties to the husband and the family. islamqa.info The duties include duties obedience to the husband as long as it is not sinful. The husband even has rights over the women more than her own mother.

    It is permissible for woman to work as long as certain conditions are met : Ruling on Muslim women working as nurses and doctors -
    In the case you mentioned, the woman does not have to give the husband any money that she has earned if she does not wish to. Whatever money she earns is hers, period.
    If a woman works, does she have to pay the household expenses? - islamqa.info

    It seems that people are so fixated on this idea of "beating the wife." It is the mains duty to provide sustainance and as much comfort as possible to his wife and children. But as with any agreement (contract) there are responsibilities borne unto BOTH parties. Both parties have obligations. If there are breaches in any type of contract, consequences are to be paid. In our society this manifests as fines, punishments, etc. This is simply common sense. The beatings that are referred to are not as severe as we imagine when we think of beating someone. It is a method for expressing disapproval for such actions and a punishment.
     
  5. I don't blame you for not answering the question if it makes Islam look bad but I really wish you would.
     
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  6. #86 Green Plant, Oct 21, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
    If the husband does not provide properly for the wife, she has to choice to put up with it or leave him. She may also disallow intimacy if he does not provide properly. So you're original statement is correct. Sorry, I missed the point of the post.
    If the husband refuses to spend on his wife’s maintenance, is it permissible for her to refuse to share his bed? - islamqa.info
     
  7. You're having a hard time with a simple question so perhaps I should ask it again. If the husband is squandering money and won't stop is it okay for the wife to cut him off in the bedroom and if that doesn't stop his bad behavior can she then beat him? You said it was okay for him to punish her for that offense, can she punish him for doing the same?
     
  8. Yes she is allowed to deny him sexual intimacy and leave the house. She cannot hit him. As long as he is providing their basic needs she does not have the right to leave if nothing else is going wrong. But if he is using his extra money to buy other frivolous things I am not sure whether that is permissible or not.

    It does say in the Quran that a man should spend on his wife according to his means. I am not sure exactly what is obligated to spend but it is a great deed to spend on the wife and kids and it is MANDATORY to provide them sustenance.
     
  9. What most people are thinking - You condone physical violence against women, period.

    It really does not matter what the "crime" was, or how many chances she got before it led to something physical, or even how "lightly" you beat her.

    None of those things matter, because you are STILL CONDONING VIOLENCE.

    Just because you justify it, does not make it a non violent act, you still think beating women in some circumstances is acceptable.

    It is not acceptable to beat women, EVER. Period.

    You are seriously fucked in the head if you justify violence towards women of any kind.

    And I bet the vast majority would agree with me.
     
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  10. #90 mandoluce, Oct 21, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
    Double post
     
  11. Double standards huh?
     
  12. Then that is why the OP's family is treating her differently than they treat her brother. In Islam a woman is lesser of a being than a man and so that leads to them being treated without the same respect, just as it's okay in America to treat a dog as a lesser being than a human. To answer OP's question "i want to know though, do you think this abuse is caused by the close mindedness found in Islam and our culture, or do you think its used to justify abuse?" the abuse results from the lack of respect Islam has for women, they are subservient to the men much like a dog is subservient to mankind, they are lesser beings and are therefor not worthy of the same degree of respect. A Muslim doesn't consider beating his wife as being abusive because after all, she is only a woman were as a woman can never beat her husband because he is the master.

    Here's my question being answered by another Muslim Does a woman have the right to hit her husband if he mistreats her? - islamqa.info
     
  13. That is your opinion. Again, there are very specific circumstances in which it is permissible and very clear boundaries set.
     
  14. Woman are viewed as DIFFERENT than men in Islam, not lesser or greater. They have certain rights, as do men. The analogy to a dog is completely wrong. And yes, woman are to be subservient to men to a certain degree in Islam. That is our view of things. I know I do appreciate and respect my sisters who obey my father AND their mother. Woman are different beings than men. They have more emotions and sensitivity along with a weaker body and the greatest responsibility; growing new people in their wombs. If these people are not worthy of protection and a different set of rules regarding treatment then they would be just like men.

    Again, pointing to the "beating" is a scapegoat despite the previous discussion. Islam is an intellectual religion based on logic and reasoning of the human nature.
     
  15. Yes, men and women are different, they are not be treated as equal beings. It is common sense.
     
  16. So in a male dominated religion, they just happened to structure it to insure that women are (and will remain) subservient.
    Sounds like real intellect at work. Well at least to insure control.
    SMH


    :smoke:
     
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  17. What rights are woman lacking in Islam that you think they should have?
     
  18. #98 Green Plant, Oct 21, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
    And this "male dominated religion" also JUST HAPPENED to articulate the rights of women very clearly. Based on your logic, which I am assuming you are saying that Islam was created by men in order to control woman and to serve other purposes, why would they specify ANY rights to a woman? Why wouldn't the arabs who "created" the religion just write that "ARabs are a superior master race" just like the Jews did.

    Why does Islam not condone arrogance and corruption? Who's purpose is that serving?
     
  19. #99 ICGreen, Oct 21, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
    The right to get any job they desire.
    The right not to get smacked around because of a perceived transgression. (Many do not adhere to the love tap chit and you know it).
    The right to freely speak out.
    The right to not have to worry about being a victim of honor slayings.
    The right to drive a vehicle (Sometimes allowed dependent on region).
    The right to be in public without an escort.

    Your religion is designed to keep a woman under a man's thumb.
    Can a woman maintain an independent household?

    :smoke:

    Edited to respond to your additional post

    Respect, Honor, Trust are some basic reasons.

    Oops you edited again.

    They did basically write that men are superior to women despite any race.
    We are not discussing the short comings of the Jewish faith, although you could start a thread.
     
  20. As someone who has been to the Middle East, I can tell you first hand it's the furthest thing from "religion of peace".

    If you're a woman in an Islamic country you are worth less than a donkey. Little boys have a higher trade value than the women..
     
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