Death penalty

Discussion in 'Politics' started by UU_ood, Aug 8, 2012.


  1. Beyond a shadow of a doubt by an impartial court and an impartial judge.. Idk , on my planet people are fallible and I just believe life should be so sacred that man should never be allowed to take life.. period.

    How about.. in the case of a murdered sibling the victims family can send a waiver to the gov. and exclude themselves for the costs associated for the perpetrators care?
     

  2. I always think about this and momentarily question the death penalty. But the fact that it is more expensive to use the death penalty is dead wrong. It is far less expensive than life in prison and I just think it's stupid to waste money people who take away human life.
     
  3. #63 Arteezy, Aug 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2012
    Beyond the shadow of a doubt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    On my planet, people are fallible, but still make due with what we have.

    Man does 'take life' whether he wants to or not as long as he lives (see: immune systems). The empty platitude that 'life is sacred' is not an argument nor is it a refutation. If life is so sacred, why is your body literally destroying life during nearly every moment of its existence? People don't have a right to live and even if they do, that "right" is thrown out the window when they start murdering/raping people.

    Giving tax rebates to victims is only going to increase the debt and force the rest of us to pay more for these murderers/rapists. You're still advocating forcing people to pay for convicted murderers/rapists who may not want to.

    -----------------------

    Also, you kind of skirted my questions:
    I can guess your answers based on your previous replies:

    1. Taxation (read: theft)
    2. Yes
    3. No
    4 & 5. Irrelevant since you answered no to 3

    Feel free to correct me; otherwise, I will assume I'm right about you.
     
  4. Some prisoners on death row should be given the option of having their death sentence commuted by volunteering for medical research, and experimentation, that is too dangerous for the general (non-inmate) public to participate in. These programs could used as a way for the worst criminals to pay society back, to some degree, for the trouble they caused their victim(s), the victims' families, and society.
     
  5. Wow, funny enough I had just talked about this with a friend of mine. Due to the recent shootings obviously gun control debates came out..and generally always from people who know nothing about them. But then I got to thinking..

    Maybe we have so many murders because you can literally get out of prison in 10 years if that for a murder. Maybe if liberals wasn't so against the death penalty and the law was changed to "If you kill someone, you get the death penalty within one week of being sentenced" unless of course its self defense. I mean if the evidence is overwhelming that they are indeed guilty and never start saying "I DIDN'T DO IT I DIDN'T DO IT from start to finish. I mean, if they don't value life, why should we value theirs?

    Not to mention the obvious that its a complete waste of money..If someone is going to be in jail for LIFE without the possibility for parole then its just a complete and utter money sink. That is irrefutable.

    If something or someone pisses off someone so much to the point it drives them to kill someone, im sure knowing they will get out of jail in a decade or two doesn't really help at all.

    So yeah, I have a theory that implementing a 100% chance of getting the death penalty in a timely manner it would lower the murder rates. As said, friend pisses me off. I kill him, no big deal..Get out of jail in 10 years.

    I've seen some news articles of people getting out of jail in 8 years. Pot growers get longer jail sentences than pedophiles............................Process that one
     
  6. I'm an anti-war libertarian, not an anarcho capitalist.. So my answers to the following would be

    1.) Taxation at a state level based on laws applicable at the state level.
    2.) State level taxation
    3.) (In my state, if it were up to me) Yes
    4.) Same as 3

    In our current judicial system we claim to have everything you previously mentioned;

    - proof beyond reasonable doubt
    - impartial courts
    - impartial judges

    Yes people still get incarcerated and executed wrongfully.

    Additional costs associated with not executing a criminal and the misguided feelings of the victims family are not reason enough for me to support the death penalty..
     
  7. #67 Jamayah, Aug 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2012
    For me it boils down to:
    People who commit murder/rape/molestation are messed up in the head. Nobody in their right mind does these things.

    Rather than deal with the problems that cause murder, rape, and molestation society prefers to propagate the message of 'just don't get caught or you're fucked'.

    Executing people because we don't know how to fix them or how to prevent them from becoming someone who will do these things, is really the lazy way to deal with undesirable behavior.

    When was the last time you thought to yourself...hey I want to kill that guy but I really don't want to get executed so I won't. Execution isn't an deterrent for aberrant behavior; instead it's the literal burying of the problem so it can be ignored.

    Edit: Just want to add that I do understand that we can't fix all these people even if we all collectively agree that execution is the wrong way to deal with the problem. Our science, medicine, understanding aren't far enough along yet. I just don't see killing those who aren't quite right as a justifiable solution.
     

  8. Execution is not a deterrent but it's a more cost-effective method of keeping those people out of society than paying for them to spend their life in prison. I also think that execution should only be used in severe cases where there is as close to 100% certainty as possible and/or the person admits to it and shows no remorse.

    And with the fixing the kind of people who commit crimes like that... I don't see it being possible for a long time, if ever. Most of these people have something biologically wrong with them and unless you want to give them lobotomies and make them brain dead, a fix for those kinds of psychological problems is way beyond what is available now.
     
  9. I dont believe our so called ''government'', should be able to just play god, and just kill people off. human life is very sacred, and I dont believe the punishment for murder should be murder? what a huge cop out that is. we are the only species on this planet that progressivly continue to kill off our own kind. so were obvioisly doing,something wrong? no matter what happens, there will never be a logical resolution, because our government and society are fucked.
     
  10. I appreciate your position, however, the whole 'we're the only species that kills our own' isn't accurate. Just a couple examples: ants have full on wars and chimps can get pretty violent. There are many more examples out there.
     
  11. I definitely agree with that, there are species that get violent and even sometimes kill, however, we are human beings. we are much more and intelligent and sophisticated. yet we commit war and genicide? that is where I disagree.
     
  12. #72 Arteezy, Aug 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2012
    States are states. Initiation of force is initiation of force. I consider libertarians to be people who adhere to the non-aggression principle and taxation to be the initiation of force in the vast majority of cases.

    I said proof beyond the shadow of a doubt. People get wrongly executed because there's no meaningful competition to the kangaroo courts in the US. Surely, as a self-proclaimed anti-war libertarian, you understand why a free market can't exist under such an oppressive state and why we shouldn't base our views on something abstract like the death penalty on an assumption that courts will always be shitty. I'm with you in that the government courts shouldn't have the power to punish anyone, but that's not the same thing as being against the death penalty in all cases.

    It has little to do with the mere "additional costs". It has everything to do with how those costs are paid for. They're paid for by extorting money from productive citizens. That's the issue.

    If you found a way to fund these people's lives in prison through voluntary means, I'm sure an impartial judge would be more than happy to place them in that prison as opposed to just having them executed, especially if they have the potential to be rehabilitated in that prison and possibly even contribute to society eventually.

    I do think victims should have a say in their aggressors' punishment (if they're found guilty), but ultimate sentencing/judgment should be up to an impartial judge.

    ============================

    This post is addressed to anyone who opposes the death penalty in all cases. How do you plan to pay for these psychopaths'/sociopaths' prison(s)?

    If the answer is taxation, then you're advocating extorting/stealing from productive citizens in order to keep murderers and rapists alive and, to top it off, you're calling it justice.
     
  13. Am I the only one pondering compulsory labor?

    Or we could have a televised tournament (fight to the death) to raise funds and the survivor gets to attend the next game.
     
  14. I dont support taxation on that level at all, and also dont support our countries current jail policies. I do support a more creative solution. I dont support these criminals just as much the people on the rest of this post, but I also dont support the act killing in a whole. what the solution is? hell if anyone really knows.
     
  15. Prisons can be paid for privately by contracting out the prisoners labor. The prisoner earns a small percentage of the contract (if they are not sentenced for life) and the rest is used to rehabilitate the prisoner, prisoners can also be used for medical experiments (if they choose too) If the prisoner refuses to work or accept the terms for some other money making arrangement, they get a cot, bread and water, funded by charity. Also the prisoner should always have the option to kill themselves humanly.

    Also if someone commits a crime like robbery, and the community refuses to pay for that persons incarceration, they can either offer an alternative service or just get away scott free, because if a community refuses to pay for the incarceration of individuals then they do NOT have the right to just make all crimes the death penalty to save money.
     
  16. Yes, I support gladiator-type events using death row inmates.
     

  17. We'll make Iran look like a bunch of boy scouts. Stoning...pff, we let our inmates duke it out Roman style :cool:
     
  18. Welcome to Earth.
     
  19. I don't condone the death penalty, although the gladiators could be made up of child rapist, lawyers, bankers, politicians, and garrison68:p
     
  20. The only issue I have with using prisoners for labor is that the warden/prison owner can offer his services for less than his "honest" competitors who have to rely on voluntary labor.

    Even with this concern though, I think there are jobs that prisoners could do that wouldn't interfere too much in the marketplace and would still give back to the community.
     

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