Dankohzee's Ultimate Seed-Starting Mix

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by dankohzee, Apr 19, 2009.

  1. Call a part a shovel full, or a trowel full.
     
  2. Thanks cantharis. One more thing: my seelding are outside and at night it gets as low as 45F. Is that too cold? My plants seem to have stunted growth so I'm guessing that's the reason? During the day its about 65-70F but nights can be cold.
     
  3. It's only too cold if they die. 45 is indeed chilly, but as you've discovered it won't kill them. They'll grow slow until it warms up.
     
  4. Congratulations Dankohzee on the sticky. This is a GREAT addition to the organic section. I also placed the link in the Outdoor Grow guide. Thanks for helping me out. My plants are back for sure now!
     
  5. Haha!! I've got a sticky!!!!!! From now on it's Mister Ohzee!!;)
     
  6. Thanks Corto. I can't wait to see those females in another couple of months:eek:
     
  7. Thank's Dankohzee for all the information, I will be applying this to my indoor grow(just got a GL 80 and T 5 HO lights) I've had problems with pests in the past on indoor growing, I blamed the nats or bugs on my soil (miracle grow) am trying better soil . Congrats on the sticky, Great info.

    Pilgrim
     
  8. I havent heard of anybody microwaving before, but i will be using MG organic potting soil and worm castings as well so is cooking it something that will give me better results? and if so how long do i do it for? if someones done this with sucess lemme know
     
  9. What mix do you use in the actual holes dank?
     
  10. Farmer, I was wondering the same thing. I plan on using Dank's seed starting mixture for the seedling stage of growth but have been wondering what to use after that. Would this same mixture be OK for all stages of growth or would their be a variation that somebody (maybe Dank???) could recommend for use during the later stages of growth.
     
  11. #31 dankohzee, Jul 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2010
    I can give you a basic format for a hole mix, but the variations are infinite.

    First off you want your soil to be able to breathe and drain well. I can't stress this enough. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the great majority of issues with various unsuccessful grows stem from poorly aerated soil. A general rule of thumb is 30% perlite or some other material that will act as an aerating component, such as sand, pea gravel, or construction rubble as Cantharis uses. Vermiculite can also be used, though some people have health concerns over it.

    So it would go something like this:

    1 bale (3.8 cu.ft) peat.
    1.25 to 1.5 cu.ft. aeration
    3 rounded cups pulverized (not pelletized) garden lime


    That's the basic mix, but it is entirely without nutes--completely barren. Some people like it that way because they can dial in their nutes exactly how they want them, but I can tell you from experience that unless you are working with a strain that you know well, you're going to fight with over and undernourishment all season and may not ever get it dialed in. So what you want to do is add some good stuff. I add some humus to help retain moisture and nutes, and some composted manure for a slow release N source. I add 3 cups or so of blood meal and 4 or five cups of bone meal per bale of peat. This year I added a large bag of greensand to my whole batch for trace elements, and a few buckets of dried muck from my pond just because I like my pond a lot:D. I also threw in five pounds of peruvian seabird guano. Remember though that I mixed 1000 gallons of soil. Don't add this much to a bale or you'll probably burn your girls to death. Also keep in mind that as you add the good stuff: manures, guanos, humus, castings--you have to adjust the ratio of aeration so that you stay in the 30 to 40% range. So you might end up with a mix like this:

    1 bale (3.8 cu.ft) peat.
    2.5 cu.ft. aeration (perlite works for me)
    3 cups blood meal
    4 cups bone meal
    2 cu. ft. composted manure
    1 cu. ft. humus
    3 rounded cups pulverized (not pelletized) garden lime


    You can substitute worm castings for some of the manure if you want. You can add some kelp meal, cottonseed meal, or feather meal. You can add bird guano or bat guano, but go easy and remember to wet your mix and let it rest for several weeks or more before using.
     
  12. Nice update on the sticky Dank. Being able to mix your own soil mix is really nice esp. when you're not in the US or don't want to pay too much. An airy soil and lots of sun: those are the bases. Thanks!
     
  13. thnx nice post....i enjoyed it....a couple of times, when i occasionally dropped a seed or two in a damp area, to my surprise, it started to germinate and grow all by itself....but i couldn't have left it to grow there because it was simply not the right place....wt happens if i start caring for it after this happens? will it still give me a good harvest? i am asking out of curiosity....sorry to bother you
     
  14. Dankohzee, how much should i water the seedlings?
     
  15. Just wet it before placing the seed. Then let it dry out a bit for 2 or 3 days, and re-water it gently (misting the soil is a good way).
     

  16. That's an excellent question and not so easily answered. Here's some info from Canna on watering:
    THE GROWTH TETRAHEDRON:

    Let's begin our look at watering by accepting a small fact: successfully bringing a plant crop to maturity depends on successfully keeping to the Growth Tetrahedron (see Figure 1-1). The sides of the Tetrahedron feature the four primary components for achieving growth. Each side is equally important and must be optimised to fit in with the other sides. As you can see, the base of the pyramid is water (as a solution or pure) because it is in all the sides as well. Plant Selection will determine the root environment, and consequently the system or medium to be used, as well as the top environment that you will need (sides 2, 3 and 4). Remember, it takes all four sides to make the Tetrahedron and each face has an influence on the others.
    [​IMG]
    Fig 1-1 Growth Tetrahedron
    The plant or crop is the first side and the first thing you decide. What you want to grow determines how to grow it; the root environment and top environment to use depend on the chosen plant. In addition, choices are made based on the grower's knowledge of the system, the crop, strengths and weaknesses, and the remaining two sides. It makes no sense to try tomatoes if there's not enough light. It makes equally little sense to grow orchids when the water solution is scarce. While lettuce may be grown successfully in peat or coco, it can also be grown in an NFT system which will reduce the time, costs, and area it needs to grow. The fact that you can grow leaf lettuce in your grow area does not mean you can grow head lettuce successfully unless you can lower the temperature in the area to cooler levels. Choose your plant carefully, both type and variety, as all are different and will respond differently.



    Root environment


    The second side is the root environment which determines the system to employ in growing. What will best fit with the other sides? The system determines the root environment or medium to use. This is how we prepare for the plant and store water, food and air for it, and it also protects and shelters half the plant. Roots work differently than the top - but always in conjunction with, and influenced by, the top part of the plant. The medium serves to provide both physical and material support for the plant. The type of medium is pretty much determined by the needs of the crop and grower. While soil or soilless mix media will provide long term storage of food and water, and will physically support the plant (so making the life of the grower easier and lowering the headache factor), for the grower it makes little economic sense to grow lettuce in peat-filled containers. Roots also require the correct proportion of air to water in the medium based on the type of plant. And don't forget that all roots require oxygen to function too. Plants don't have lungs, neither do they have a true circulatory system to transports oxygen from the leaves to the roots. Oxygen has to diffuse through the plant's tissues. While most carnivorous plants require little air, cacti and succulents require lots of air. Most plants fall in the middle. Steady temperature and correct humidity are key components in root development and function; these are influenced by the type of medium used. (Fig 1-2)
    [​IMG]
    Figure 1-2 Air relationships and pore space
    Top environment


    The Top Environment is everything you can see of the plant above the crown or soil line. This top environment must have the correct temperature for a particular plant grow. Light intensity (including composition, duration and penetration), air (its component gases, their movement, and their ratio), and relative humidity are all integral components of this environment (which, to a lesser extent, includes pathogens and external stresses as well). If these aspects are not in balance, the plant will not flourish. Plants assimilate carbon atoms, the basic building block for life as we know it, only from this side as a constituent of the air, CO2. It is not so much the effect of one component that makes the difference. It is more about the way all these components combine, including driving the final side, water.
    Water

    Water, the universal solvent, is the final side of our Tetrahedron, the base. Look at it in a broad sense from the individual atom to the complex slurry that moves nutrients to the root surface in a mass flow, and subsequently up the stem to the rest of the plant. Water sees action in all sides, as humidity in the top environment, moving nutrients and supporting other media activities in the medium, directly controlling all activity in the plant, as well as supplying the necessary nutrients to the final use sites in the plant cells by transporting them there. Water must be right for every side if every side is to be correct. It is required in the initial stages of converting light to energy and in the final stage of respiration. It must match the needs of the plant. Plants that prefer dry feet should not be in an Aquaculture system; aquatic plants should not be held with dry feet. The water's chemical composition is critical for its performance and must be matched and balanced to work correctly. While a plant will usually adapt to limitations in the other sides of our Growth Tetrahedron (ok, it won't be as pretty or as productive, but it can survive and multiply – the only true goal of any plant), it will not tolerate water depletion. Limit the water and a plant's functions will decrease or cease, forcing it into dormancy or killing it outright. Getting the water right is the hardest thing to teach and the easiest to mess up.
    Results


    So what should you take out from all of this? Remove one side from the Growth Tetrahedron and nothing works. Cheat one side and, even if the other sides are right on, you will short-change the crop. Make a change on any side in terms of quantity, quality, composition or availability, and you will have to make changes to at least one other side to compensate. Information on all the needs of a plant for each side is pretty much known and achievable with current technologies. The question that remains: ‘Can the grower get all the information required for a super crop given his or her time, knowledge, budget, workload or temper?'


    SUMMARISING:

    "Hand watering is the easiest and least expensive of all systems."
    Hand watering is the easiest and least expensive of all the systems. This includes everything from holding the hose in your hand to manually tripping a valve that applies water through an irrigation system of drippers, spray stakes or other individual emitters including sprinklers and soaker hoses. This gives the grower the most control as long as he or she is paying attention and getting the correct amount of water into each container or plant. If a grower is using 14 litre containers with soil, applying 2 litre of water will not suffice. Always water until you get at least 20% drainage; this will ensure total saturation and wash away accumulated salts.

    Automated systems


    But for precise volume applications, you have to use a system that applies a known volume of water to each point, and to accomplish this, you will need an automated system. Design the system around the water need. Start with how much water needs to go into a container in the time allotted to ensure the roots are not submerged for more than the recommended time. Then, since drippers have depth profiles, pick a type of dripper and the number required to go into a container to satisfy this need. Then, count the total drippers required for your proposed system and design the pipes and pump to deliver this total amount of volume at the pressure required for the dripper to work correctly.
    Next choose a size of tank that ensures this amount is available at each watering, and that's sufficient to cover the number of applications needed between tank changes. Remember that volume has to be equal at each dripper, so ensure that the pressure needed in the entire system and volume supplied are available at each dripper, and allow some margin for error! Remember that as pressure goes up, volume out decreases. If you need to supply a minimum of 3 bar in a system and 500 litres a minute, you will have to use a pump that can cope with this.
    For extreme systems like deep-water culture, you will need to flush out the root zone to keep the water solution clean and for air saturation to be maintained using aeration technologies such as air pumps. Aeroponic systems have to meet the same needs but are only switched off for short times and have to be run in the dark. The same holds true for Hydroton or pebble systems, but the off-time is longer since the aggregates will hold water on the surface allowing for a longer period of high humidity at the roots.
    That's it! All the systems on the market today fall into two categories, manual and automatic. The clock and the labour needed to water are the important considerations. Everything else is about the plumbing. In simplest terms, the goal is to deliver water to the root zone on time and on target. Everything else is an issue of convenience or accuracy. So there are two categories and many systems. The simplest are the best.
    "In simplest terms, the goal is to deliver water to the root zone on time and on target."
    Overhead watering by hand is the best, especially for leaching salts, and can be accomplished with spray stakes, as long as all containers can be watered. The “flood and drain” method is not this author's favourite way to apply a water solution, But, to an extent it works, but should always include a regular leach session to reduce the salts that do not drain from the container but move upward. Drip emitters are great in media that are not too airy, but they depend on lateral movement to saturate the root zone and do little to rinse out the medium. Sprinklers are great but only if the crop (and building) can handle it. And if there are tight restrictions on their mode of operation. Remember, disease and missed containers are often the result of this type of system, which also wastes loads of water, to the air and as run off. Spray stakes are really the most flexible for most media, with the exception of air, where the emitter should be a mist nozzle. They can be used to disburse water across a medium, ensuring equal watering and good leaching.
    It's hard to condense 30 years of experience into one ‘short' article. But if these guidelines are followed, you'll get results in plant performance, money saved, and your general success as a grower. The key element in this entire discussion is you, the grower. It's the grower that affects the entire system and success or failure are entirely in the grower's hands.




    Now, let's get down to it by understanding and accepting a couple of key points and rules of thumb. 1. START

    To begin, herbaceous root systems require near 100% humidity, ideally, at all times, otherwise the root tips die back. The root tip is the very small end of the root that is divided into three zones. The length is variable and depends on many considerations such as plant variety, temperature, past water levels and much more. The root tip is responsible for absorbing the vast majority of minerals and water. Root hairs facilitate this uptake and occur in the last or third zone. After the third zone the root tissue begins to lignify and becomes more impervious to water and nutrients. Kill the tips and the root has to regenerate one before going forward.
    2. ROOTZONE

    Roots grow in response to depletion zones. These are the areas where the root has absorbed all the minerals and water located there. When the material is not replaced, the root extends to find more. Roots have to grow. When nutrients and water are abundant, the root system does not develop in balance with the shoots and a carbohydrate limited condition presents itself, so weakening the plant. Allow the plants time to dry and thus use up the minerals present. Conversely, if you keep them too dry, a condition known as chronic underwater or underfeed can manifest itself. The root tips will also die back limiting further plant development. (Fig 1-3)
    [​IMG]
    Figure 1-3 Good strong roots in coco
    3. KEEP ALL DRAINS OPEN

    [​IMG]
    Figure 1-4 Irrigation depth profile
    and soil type
    Over watering is keeping the roots submerged in water without allowing them access to oxygen. This is more a function of time and drainage and less of volume. With the possible exception of deep-water culture, a neat thing to see but pretty useless for all but the most experienced growers. Never let roots stay submerged for more than 20 minutes as even then you will get some die-back. Remember, roots require oxygen to do their job, which comes through diffusion at the root surface. A well-drained medium can have water applied for a longer period (ON time) because the excess drains away quickly from the medium when the application ceases. Poorly drained media need a much shorter application time (but the application rate has to be slower for absorption) because it will take longer to drain the excess water away from the root surface. Very poorly drained media are impossible because the rate of application has to be slow to absorb and with the drainage time, can never be watered throughout. (Fig 1-4)
    4. 4-6L P/D P/M2

    The general rule of thumb for determining the root health and irrigation needs of a system is that 1 square meter of bench top, covered with leaves, will use 4-6 litres of water a day. New plants, or where the square meter is not totally covered with leaves, will use an average of about 3 litres a day. This is true whether there are 2 or 20 plants per square metre. Build the system to be able to supply this amount across each watering and for however long you want to go without mixing more. Use this figure to decide how well the plants are working. If it is using less, maybe the roots are having a tough time, or the humidity is too high, or the temp is too low, and so on.
    5. FIFTY-FIFTY

    When figuring out the water cycle for a crop of more than one plant, base your times on an average of all the plants. For instance, we want to water most media (except aeroponics) when about 50% of the total volume of the water is used or gone. Set your automatic systems to turn on when 50% of the crop is ready. To accomplish this, keep everything the same; medium, plant age and size, light exposure, air currents, and so on. Above all else, keep the crops developing equally.
    6. WEIGHING

    [​IMG]
    Figure 1-5 Just watered weight
    With an organic or inert medium, water when 50% of the water you applied last time is gone. In some instances, the grower can weigh the container bone dry, water until drainage starts and weigh again. The difference is how much water the container will hold. Water when the scale reaches half this amount lost. After planting, the same will hold true through the early stages. By then, the grower should also be able to see that the plant is gaining weight as well, so if you keep weighing, don't forget to take the increased weight of your plants into account! (Fig 1-5, 1-6)
    7. HUMIDITY

    An aeroponic system requires you to be good at judging when the root surface has just lost the free moisture on it while not falling much below 100% humidity (air). You will have to monitor this constantly, especially where the roots are exposed to free air.
    8. KEEP IN THE DARK

    [​IMG]
    Figure 1-6 Water now! weight
    Roots like to be in the dark and really try to grow away from light. Keep them as free of light as possible in systems such as thin walled PVC or an air chamber.
    9. NEVER TOO MUCH

    Remember, in a container with medium and drainage holes, you can't put in too much water. For example: you have a 9 litre pot, it doesn't matter whether you apply 5 litre or 40 litre in the space of 5 minutes (if the medium does not flush away) there will always be the same amount left in the container ten minutes later. This is the only important point.
    10. PREFERABLY DON'T WATER AT NIGHT! ;-)

    Watering cycles have to be adjusted during the “night time” period, because plants don't use as much water as they do during the “day time”. Don't forget that dark cycle is critical to plant development. This holds true for cloudy days or high humidity periods. Media that hold a lot of water, such as peat or rock wool, hardly ever need watering during the night. But do be sure to adjust the irrigation cycle to water in the last or first half hour of light. Aeroponics or clay pebbles will need infrequent watering during the night.
     
  17. Awesome guide, defs gonna try asap, do you think it would be beneficial to add some perlite? if so, how much do you think would help the plant?
     
  18. Ye, thanks for bringing the error to my attention, but that is indeed the stuff. I´ll edit right away.

    This is just a personal preference, but I like using vermiculite in my starter mix. Actually, I guess I do have a reason for it. it seems as thought the vermiculite moves around less when watering. Perlite likes to try to float to the top, which is fine with a heavier mix in a bigger pot, but in little tiny starter cubes or pots, it messes with my head. But perlite works fine too, I just prefer using vermiculite to start. Just maintain roughly the same ratios and you can replace the vermiculite with almost any tye of aerating ingredient.
     
  19. #40 Dudeski3000, Apr 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2010
    hello and thx for the info mister Dankohzee...hope im not too much off subject but i am growing my babyz outdoor this year and i have stared them indoor under three led grow panels they are doing fine as of right now but i have been giving them 18/6 light sence i started them on the 25'th of march... i was thinking i would start hardening them off around the 1st of may but ive been wondering if i sould match light schedule with the outside times? or will giveing them 14/10 make them strech becuz iam only useing three of these kind of lights 45W LED Panel Grow Light : Grow Light Supply... if so sould i start slowly cuting back a half hour a day intell i match up or sould i just switch it all at once or will that throw them into flowering? any and all insight would be appreciated...

    and this is the sunrise and sunset dates in my town last year on may 1
    Twi: 5:22am
    Sunrise: 5:56am
    Sunset: 8:21pm
    Twi: 8:54pm
     

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