I got good enough grades in high school to get accepted into a science program at a 4 year university, and I was leading my boys to the state championship in football at the same time, darling : ] Back at the ranch though - I'm still waiting on an answer to my question all of you seem to be avoiding like the plague (there's no vaccine for). When was the last time a million people died from the anti-vaccine movement? And yes this can be quantified, even if just roughly - find the recent outbreaks from people not being vaccinated, count the deaths, add them up. I got a million dead bodies from heart disease and cancer last year - that's real damage. Where's all this 'damage' you guys are talking about from the anti-vaccine movement?
[quote name="MrThoughtCrime" post="19447549" timestamp="1391276674"]I got good enough grades in high school to get accepted into a science program at a 4 year university, and I was leading my boys to the state championship in football at the same time, darling : ]Back at the ranch though - I'm still waiting on an answer to my question all of you seem to be avoiding like the plague (there's no vaccine for). When was the last time a million people died from the anti-vaccine movement? And yes this can be quantified, even if just roughly - find the recent outbreaks from people not being vaccinated, count the deaths, add them up.I got a million dead bodies from heart disease and cancer last year - that's real damage. Where's all this 'damage' you guys are talking about from the anti-vaccine movement? [/quote]The real damage is to the profits not generated from their vaccine patent. Vaccines have more to do with money than public safety anymore. Chicken pox vaccines and flue shit is perfect example. bat mobile
[quote name="MrRaider" post="19447424" timestamp="1391275123"]Lol at markets being a creation of man but science not. You never seem to amaze me pen. You have outdone yourself even. You have it exactly backwards. It's not even debatable. Natural law is just that natural. Whether it's free markets or science with or without man it exists. But of course in your world only a liberal person can define existence, and give it meaning. If I want freedom from taxes you say pack my shit and leave. But if you want equality for women than you want my money my energy to enslave me to your ideas your view's. I don't want to vaccinate, or my children that's my choice not your business at all! I'll vaccinate if you give up your stupid liberal view's. You want to call people ignorant about medicine than except the fact that you are ignorant about life really. You only want to talk about the fact that these companies changed their ingredients only after the fact that they were poisoning people. Now you claim that they are clean. 10 years from now if they are found to contain some other form of poison then you will just say what? well science was wrong? Another words hi I'm pen markets have been wrong so they need to be eliminated, but when science is wrong it should be further studied. Face palmbat mobile[/quote]I don't have any sort of liberal agenda and I don't think your dumb but I find your post to be a little bit illogical. You're saying that there has been slight proof that thimerasol could be harmful and you know what they did about they removed it, so that's no longer really an issue. Your point is how could we ever trust these vaccines if they potentially contained something toxic that we were unaware of. To me that's the risk you take when you put any medicine in your body, and judging by your stated opinion I'm gonna guess you don't take too many medicines. Medicine is not perfect and taking it can always have serious consequence but in a lot of cases those are outweighed by the benefits. Similarly I don't believe in taking most meds unless necessary. I don't see how you could see getting a vaccine as detrimental to your health however. I'm not saying it's not possible but the body of evidence is not in your favor on that. We don't know that vaccines have a deadly poison but what we do know is that we've pretty much gotten rid of polio, diphtheria, and smallpox as well as other infectious diseases which would still plague our society daily if vaccines did not exist. You can rationalize your belief to stay away from vaccines by criticizing the ingredients but you can't say that you're more likely to be healthy as a result. The only reason you're not at great risk for disease is because pretty much everyone else in this thread has received their vaccines. It's easy to think why do I need these vaccines I don't have them and I'm not sick, but the only reason is because everyone else is immune and the disease doesn't have enough viable hosts to spread. The only reason this is an even issue is because vaccines did their job so well in ridding this country of disease that we don't know what it's like to live in a country with polio anymore and therefore don't feel any negative effects from not taking vaccines. However if this movement gains enough ground and people stop taking vaccines then we will undo all the progress that has been made for the last couple of decades, and these infectious diseases will return. That being said if in ten years they find out vaccines have some horrible poison Ill admit I'm wrong and change my opinion accordingly but to do so without proper evidence would be illogical in my opinion. That's just my two cents.Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
In 1967, the World Health Organization (WHO) announced a global campaign to eliminate smallpox through vaccination. Many WHO employees traveled the globe, seeking out cases of naturally occurring illness and vaccinating the surrounding population to prevent its spread. In 1979, the WHO announced that the last wild case had been documented, effectively vanquishing the disease. Several laboratories retained samples of the disease, however, for use in research and vaccine development.bat mobile
I don't remember who the guy was that said if you don't get your kids the chicken pox shot then you don't love them but that shit is ridiculous. I never got the shot and guess what? I got the chicken pox as a kid. It obviously sucked but it wasn't so horrible that I would even consider my parents not loving me because of it.
People die everyday from diseases we have vaccines for. Also you can argue what the real damage is done by, the fact is that you probably have no idea of things like the Spanish flu (circa 1918). Instances like that, the plague, SARS, HIV, all and more of which are indications of the lives that vaccines save. But they are also demonstrations of how we would experience mass extinction due to biological factors which quickly evolve harmless viruses into ones which are deadly for humans. So any movement against vaccination is idiotic and should be disregarded, which I hope most would realize but these days who knows. People are so fucking dumb and will believe the dumbest shit and not ever consider the fact they dont know a damn thing on the topic. So be careful quickly dismissing and ignoring "idiotic movements".
Yes... that's a bit over the top. I don't think any one should be "forced" to be vaccinated (I have no idea how raider interpreted anything I said to insinuate that). I'm just arguing the safety and efficacy of vaccines, which is well proven and documented.
First I have all my vaccine shots. Didn't have a choice I wasn't even a year old when I received them. I don't dispute the fact that vaccines have saved millions. I just don't think it should be mandatory. Your chances of dying have always been greater through other natural causes even when polio and smallpox were at their highest levels. Vaccinate if you want it's your choice. Shooting something into my blood system without my consent is a assault on my body.bat mobile
So then what exactly did I say in this thread that you disagree with? Where did I say vaccines should be mandatory or forced on people?
You should use the word 'idiot' a couple more times in your well laid out argument, it'll pry sound even more eloquent
I think some vaccines are harmfull not all but someSent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Any movement against vaccines is bad? So, do you think everyone should get the flu shot every year? Should everyone have gotten the Swine Flu vaccine too?
everyone with a weakened immune system should...I wouldnt get them if i didnt have to but i had a heart transplant so the flu and especially h1n1 would probably kill me...im all for natural prevention if you can manage it it just makes me nervous going out if sick people are going out also
What are you looking for for an answer? Your question, as it is phrased, just doesn't make sense and cannot be answered. Are you looking for a time range? Evidence of an outbreak? Why only in "America"? Diseases don't travel with passports... I just don't understand. I mean, the original map, in the original post has given plenty of evidence of outbreaks in disease that are prevented by vaccines... isn't that what you are asking for? Or does it need to be "one million people" for it to be relevant?
[quote name="Penelope420" post="19447633" timestamp="1391277860"]So then what exactly did I say in this thread that you disagree with?Where did I say vaccines should be mandatory or forced on people? [/quote]I'm sorry pen. I get really frustrated by your pop shots at free markets and interest rate comments. My emotions get the best of me when I'm defending freedom. Just your view's on this and the seemingly complete trust you have in science and government in general. Please don't take my personal insults personal . I would actually probably enjoy hanging out with you and your family. But I do not understand your fear of people being free to choose. bat mobile
Your case is not normal, but I can see why you got vaccinated, and why some in your shoes would I just think the hostile attitude on some of the people pushing vaccines is completely overboard and paranoid. If there were a million dead babies from dirty hippes not taking vaccines I'd be chasing them around with a stick myself. It's not the case though. Poor diet/lifestyle is the real killer in America - and while not physically contagious, when out and about in public, one wouldn't think that.
[quote name="Penelope420" post="19447707" timestamp="1391278828"]What are you looking for for an answer? Your question, as it is phrased, just doesn't make sense and cannot be answered. Are you looking for a time range? Evidence of an outbreak? Why only in "America"? Diseases don't travel with passports...I just don't understand. I mean, the original map, in the original post has given plenty of evidence of outbreaks in disease that are prevented by vaccines... isn't that what you are asking for? Or does it need to be "one million people" for it to be relevant?[/quote]his point I think is. Everyone is in a tissy fit about people who don't get vaccines because of the precieved threat against them yet you are at greater risks from dying from a whole host of natural disease. Like I said even when all these diseases were at their full strength more people died from other causes. Now if polio or small pox or any disease that has vaccinations were making a comeback I'd get a shot. But as a prevention to a non threatening illness I'll take my chances. The potential harm out weights the benefits for me at this point. bat mobile
[quote name="MrThoughtCrime" post="19447549" timestamp="1391276674"]I got good enough grades in high school to get accepted into a science program at a 4 year university, and I was leading my boys to the state championship in football at the same time, darling : ]Back at the ranch though - I'm still waiting on an answer to my question all of you seem to be avoiding like the plague (there's no vaccine for). When was the last time a million people died from the anti-vaccine movement? And yes this can be quantified, even if just roughly - find the recent outbreaks from people not being vaccinated, count the deaths, add them up.I got a million dead bodies from heart disease and cancer last year - that's real damage. Where's all this 'damage' you guys are talking about from the anti-vaccine movement? [/quote]Like I said in previous post there are not a million dead bodies due to the anti vaccine movement because it's not nearly large enough yet to have that effect. However if people stopped vaccinating new born children tomorrow we would see the revival of all these diseases and then we would start to see the millions of bodies caused by the anti vaccine movement. Here's an article about whooping cough and how it's been increasing the last couple of years . http://www.sacbee.com/2014/01/19/6083653/more-whooping-cough-cases-reported.html The reason there aren't "millions of bodies" caused by the anti vaccine movement is because vaccines are so prevalent and have been so successful meaning that the disease doesn't really have the ability to spread. Even if a couple people get the disease because they refused to vaccinate there's no susceptible group of people for the disease to spread to because vaccines are extremely effective.Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum